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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part IV (UPDATE: "The Union took a step backward")

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Old
10-15-2012, 06:33 PM
  #26
-31-
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The "people like you" line came off a little high-horseish to me.

Obviously the league and the PA would move quicker towards an agreement if they were less certain the fans would flock back. That goes without saying. The implication that fans have some sort of responsibility to not attend games when they enjoy doing it is silly IMO.

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10-15-2012, 06:37 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And Im just saying that attending games is the key revenue stream for the NHL, and the key source of these arguments.

Other sports settle their labor issues quicker not because they care about the fans, but because they care about the money fans pump into the game. The NHL doesnt even seem to go that far.

Why is that?

I just happen to think a big reason why is because they think millions of people like you will be right back in their seats the second the game comes back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Putting money into the league encourages it to be dysfunctional.
The NFL and MLB are not dysfunctional and millions of fans pour money into them. If all the fans stopped attending games like some of you are suggesting, there would be no NHL at all. Is this what you want?

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10-15-2012, 06:41 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib
Fascinating! #NHL learned that fans want them to play. Money well spent “@FrankLuntz: my official response: pic.twitter.com/k7od1lgN”

What a revelation.

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Old
10-15-2012, 06:43 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
The "people like you" line came off a little high-horseish to me.

Obviously the league and the PA would move quicker towards an agreement if they were less certain the fans would flock back. That goes without saying. The implication that fans have some sort of responsibility to not attend games when they enjoy doing it is silly IMO.
Im not proud of the fact I feel the need to not put my money into the sport I enjoy above all others.

And no, Im not saying more hockey fans should follow suit or even implying it.

But they are arguing over the fans' money year after year. I see no easier solution than to not give them mine. Im not proud of that, nor am I trying to start some revolution, nor am I looking down on those that still do pump their hard-earned money into the league.

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Old
10-15-2012, 06:46 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
What a revelation.
Gee, what a eye opener that was....

I'm indifferent at this point. I know it's only october, but I don't trust Bettman. He is the worst by far. Like I've said I know the players are no saints but 3 lockouts in 15 years is inexcusable. I just don't care anymore.

Like RB was saying, the NFL has a game on thursday nights now. I'm pretty sure they will have some saturday games. It may or may not have been part of their plan but they are capitalizing on an opportunity to grow their sport/fanbase even more during the NHL's lockout. And I know the NFL really doesn't need to given the popularity of the sport in america, but for the average nhl fan (not me or many on this board) it's almost like 'screw it, i'll just give my money and focus to the NFL, that sport is on even more nights a week this year'.

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10-15-2012, 06:49 PM
  #31
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The NFL and NBA settled their labor disputes quickly because it was actually in the owners financial interests to do so. In the NFL especially, just about every owner is raking in profits hand over fist.

Clearly for all the record revenues a large number (if not the majority) of NHL franchises are not. If they were we'd be playing hockey right now. I don't give a crap what statistics Forbes or any other source comes up with, it's plain as day that a ton of franchises are having profitability issues.

How to fix that should be easy as pie. But for some reason, it isn't...

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10-15-2012, 06:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
The NFL and MLB are not dysfunctional and millions of fans pour money into them. If all the fans stopped attending games like some of you are suggesting, there would be no NHL at all. Is this what you want?
Fans support a functional product.

There's no NHL now. And you're wealthier because of it.

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Old
10-15-2012, 06:51 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im not proud of the fact I feel the need to not put my money into the sport I enjoy above all others.

And no, Im not saying more hockey fans should follow suit or even implying it.

But they are arguing over the fans' money year after year. I see no easier solution than to not give them mine. Im not proud of that, nor am I trying to start some revolution, nor am I looking down on those that still do pump their hard-earned money into the league.
I'm with you 100% if they blow the year. It's every individual's choice and I don't judge anyone for it. But I personally will be done with giving the NHL my money.

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Old
10-15-2012, 07:19 PM
  #34
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I strongly disagree that the NFL and MLB are not dysfunctional. They have stayed on the field in recent years, but that doesn't mean they don't screw up. For one, look at the NFL and the fiasco with the officials. Games that mattered were effected.

Both leagues regularly employ criminals and murderers. Theres no parity in baseball. They may fool folks into believing there is, but theres none. Some teams are ran by thieving scum like the Wilpons. Some of the MLB "greatest" players were cheaters or drug addicts.There is plenty of corruption in both tge MLB and NFL. Id wager there is FAR more in those two leagues than in the NHL.

And lets not get started on the corruption in NCAA football and basketball. NCAA hockey VERY closely follows regulations. Meanwhile football and basketball recruits are paid off.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but for me, i am a fan of the sport, i enjoy playing the sport, watching it, discussing it.

I'm not going to let these jack offs ruin the sport for me in my mind. I won't give them money because i can't afford it anyway. Tickets are too expensive.

I am still a fan of the sport and of the Rangers. Not Dolan, or necessarily the current players. There was a time when players worked a day job and played the games at night. Times are different now. But the jersey is the same.

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10-15-2012, 07:58 PM
  #35
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I agree theres really only one way for us fans to make an impact. Not purchasing tickets and not showing up.

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10-15-2012, 08:11 PM
  #36
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This is from the first lockout, still holds true.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=r...&v=rTodQ6Svo9A

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Old
10-15-2012, 08:21 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
What a revelation.
You don't say....

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Old
10-15-2012, 08:23 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I agree theres really only one way for us fans to make an impact. Not purchasing tickets and not showing up.
I'm on board.. Lets make them continue to lose money even after the game is back on the ice..

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Old
10-15-2012, 09:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I strongly disagree that the NFL and MLB are not dysfunctional. They have stayed on the field in recent years, but that doesn't mean they don't screw up. For one, look at the NFL and the fiasco with the officials. Games that mattered were effected.

Both leagues regularly employ criminals and murderers. Theres no parity in baseball. They may fool folks into believing there is, but theres none. Some teams are ran by thieving scum like the Wilpons. Some of the MLB "greatest" players were cheaters or drug addicts.There is plenty of corruption in both tge MLB and NFL. Id wager there is FAR more in those two leagues than in the NHL.

And lets not get started on the corruption in NCAA football and basketball. NCAA hockey VERY closely follows regulations. Meanwhile football and basketball recruits are paid off.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but for me, i am a fan of the sport, i enjoy playing the sport, watching it, discussing it.

I'm not going to let these jack offs ruin the sport for me in my mind. I won't give them money because i can't afford it anyway. Tickets are too expensive.

I am still a fan of the sport and of the Rangers. Not Dolan, or necessarily the current players. There was a time when players worked a day job and played the games at night. Times are different now. But the jersey is the same.
All I know is that the pressure on the owners would be greater if Hockey had the revenues of MLB or Football.

On another note: Isn't October too early for the owners and PA to reach a deal? Too little money lost. I assume tomorrow's meeting is called the "we tried but failed to reach a deal, therefore more games will be canceled conversation? Both sides need the urgent meeting for cover before the cancellations.


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 10-15-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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Old
10-15-2012, 11:06 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Isn't October too early for the owners and PA to reach a deal?
Not if you realize that most of the owners never wanted it to even get this far. They didn't want any cancelled games and tried to bluff the players. Now that the players have made it clear they're prepared and very willing to wipe out the entire season, the owners have started to panic and instructed Bettman to move his ass and get a deal done. I'm telling you, the lockout is over by the end of next week

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Old
10-16-2012, 01:32 AM
  #41
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Guys, I know Frank Luntz.....he's on Bill Maher all the time. He's a total A-hole.

Wow, I may be done forever...and I never thought I'd even type that.

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10-16-2012, 01:35 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Guys, I know Frank Luntz.....he's on Bill Maher all the time. He's a total A-hole.

Wow, I may be done forever...and I never thought I'd even type that.
Done forever because Frank Lutz put you ever the edge???

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:21 AM
  #43
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6-1 otl

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:36 AM
  #44
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hockeyweb.de
Senators-Stürmer Erik Condra zum EV Füssen

Der EV Füssen verpflichtet mit Hilfe eines Sponsors den 26-jährigen NHL-Stürmer Erik Condra von den Ottawa Senators.
"Senators forward Erik Condra joins EV Füssen

By the help of a sponsor, EV Füssen signs the 26-year-old forward Erik Condra of the Ottawa Senators."

Quote:
Der Vertrag gilt zwar erst einmal für die nächsten 30 Tage, aber bei einem anhaltenden Lockout steht wohl auch einer Weiterverpflichtung nichts im Wege.
"The contract is determined to be valid for the next 30 days, but if the lock out lasts on, an extension doesn't seem to be an issue."

Just in case you don't know: Füssen plays in German Oberliga Süd, which is the THIRD league level in Germany.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:10 AM
  #45
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Maher had Luntz on a few weeks ago. Bill spent the whole interview making fun of him.

Quote:
So the sides are going to get back to the, ahem, bargaining table today, supposedly. Remember, the players lost their paychecks Monday (Oct. 15). The next one would be due at the end of the month.

I truly believe both sides know exactly where the deal is going to be made, but that neither side—especially the players side—wants to make a sudden move toward that number because of, perhaps mistrust, or fear that the other side will see that move as weakness and dig in to try to get more.

Silly stuff, really. I think they will get there somehow. I expect hockey by Thanksgiving. But that’s a total guess.
http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2012/1...-and-nyr-news/

Bettman and Daly usually attend the US Hockey Hall of Fame ceremony which was last night in Dallas. They didn't attend. Fehr didn't attend either. Bettman was meeting with Jamison in Manhattan yesterday trying to figure out the Coyotes sale. The NHL has sunk millions into the Coyotes.

Quote:
But for an example of how entrenched the two sides are, one need look no further than hotel rooms.

The players have asked that each player gets a room on the road. Currently most of the players share. Only 10-year veterans get their own room. That was one of the concessions the players won seven years ago for conceding the salary cap.

Publicly, the owners say the extra hotel room is an added cost, and want the money for the extra rooms to come out of the hockey-revenue related pot. That would have the effect of driving down players’ salaries.

This frustrates the players. The extra cost per team for 10 extra hotel rooms is about $135,000, or about $4 million league-wide.


The players — who believe they’re surrendering $200 million annually in salary space — see the hotel issue as a small price for the owners to pay on such a huge salary concession.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...resume-tuesday

You can't make this stuff up.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:26 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
The NFL and NBA settled their labor disputes quickly because it was actually in the owners financial interests to do so. In the NFL especially, just about every owner is raking in profits hand over fist.

Clearly for all the record revenues a large number (if not the majority) of NHL franchises are not. If they were we'd be playing hockey right now. I don't give a crap what statistics Forbes or any other source comes up with, it's plain as day that a ton of franchises are having profitability issues.

How to fix that should be easy as pie. But for some reason, it isn't...
So you know better than Forbes and it is plain as day? Can you enlighten me which teams are not making money and where you get your info from? I hope its not teams like Minnesota who spent mega bucks on contracts because it will ring hollow with me. I think a big part of this lockout is that Bettman is trying to save some franchises that are in fact losing money from moving.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:38 AM
  #47
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MLB players don't share rooms. All players have single rooms. They share hotel rooms in the minor leagues. Some players(cough,cough AROD)gets a suite. NBA players get their own rooms.

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10-16-2012, 06:39 AM
  #48
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Who is this Frank Luntz guy?

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10-16-2012, 06:46 AM
  #49
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"There’s only so many [NHLPA practice jerseys]," he said, smiling. "The [Oilers] never took mine back in time. I had it from the summer. I said, 'You know what? I’m going to wear this out of spite.' "

Horcoff is a veteran of multiple lockouts. The Oilers' captain has been active in the NHLPA for years, and even though he's not surprised that another round of regular-season games are expected to be chopped this week, it doesn’t make it any easier.

"It’s the same thing every time with the owners. [Commissioner Gary Bettman's] first defense is to cancel games and test the players. There’s been no effort to negotiate on his stance. Their negotiation is 'The players have to come down to us or we’re not moving at all,' " Horcoff told ESPN The Magazine. "Gary has forced the players' hand into this situation and frankly, he’s [ticked] us off. I think at the start, that first offer they gave out, that was a big, big mistake on Gary’s part."
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19749

Good job Gary.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:56 AM
  #50
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are they going to pull the cost of water on the bench from HRR? They must have Charles Wang on the committee. He charged players for their sticks, and once hosted a player dinner that had 1 piece of chicken less than the number attending.

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