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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part IV (UPDATE: "The Union took a step backward")

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Old
10-18-2012, 12:12 PM
  #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desdichado66 View Post
LeBrun says 2.30pm.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun NHL/NHLPA meeting pushed back to 230 pm ET at earliest - both sides say
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10-18-2012, 12:14 PM
  #627
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Jesus christ just meet you pathetic pieces of ****.

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10-18-2012, 12:15 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers will be paying an extra $10M in revenue sharing. $22M-$26M in revenue sharing annually and the NHL doesn't propose allowing them and the other big market teams to shed a bad contract when they are basically funding revenue sharing for 20 teams. Without teams such as the Rangers,revenue sharing doesn't exist. The system will be changed. One time amnesty for a bad contract. Going forward,the contracts in the AHL count against the cap.
There will be as much bargaining between owners as there will be between the league and players. They essentially are looking for the big teams to prop up the small ones with various provisions. AHL contracts count against the cap but not the revenues. Salaries and hits can be traded. It all suggests small teams will be carrying false cap hits and big teams will be buying their cap space. A lot of ways to get to the cap floor without spending real dollars.

The big teams are going to get some concessions, probably through player demands in the negotiations.

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10-18-2012, 12:15 PM
  #629
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Greaaaat. I can just see Sid, Toews, and Iginla up there presenting the PA's proposal.



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10-18-2012, 12:16 PM
  #630
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there will be "something" significant coming from players today #nhl #nhlpa #lockout PA thinks league will need a day or 2 to digest it
https://twitter.com/kevin_mcgran/sta...79464023789568

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10-18-2012, 12:19 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Sigh. This likely means that they're still negotiating off of their own last offer, rather than the one the league just proffered. That would be a bad thing in and of itself. Need to be working on the same doc before you can finalize it.

It's also combative, because you're essentially ignoring the offer you were just given.

Hope that my suspicion is wrong...

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10-18-2012, 12:20 PM
  #632
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@TheFourthPeriod: NHLPA will be countering today, but not everything will be directly off of the NHL's offer, though.

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10-18-2012, 12:21 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Sigh. This likely means that they're still negotiating off of their own last offer, rather than the one the league just proffered. That would be a bad thing in and of itself. Need to be working on the same doc before you can finalize it.
Actually I'd guess they incorporating bits and pieces from both documents. Don't know what that will turn out to be but if they're smart it'll at least include some stuff from the new proposal so they can start with some kind of base

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10-18-2012, 12:21 PM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @JKTHN
Sent: Oct 18, 2012 10:56a

Hearing 50-50 rev split and 5-year contract limits are the most important "gets" for the owners.

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/JKTHN/status/258944711300091904
Doubt the players agree to go that short on contract limits. But it's clear the owners want to get away from the lifetime contracts. At the very least the players might offer 10 year max deals as a counter and they can go from there.

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10-18-2012, 12:22 PM
  #635
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I have to believe that if there is some "easing" allowed to get teams to 59.9, then amnesty buyouts will be granted to teams.

Be that one player, or 2 players, you want teams to get to Point C from Point A, you have to allow teams to get around point B

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10-18-2012, 12:22 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Actually I'd guess they incorporating bits and pieces from both documents. Don't know what that will turn out to be but if they're smart it'll at least include some stuff from the new proposal so they can start with some kind of base
Agreed.

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10-18-2012, 12:24 PM
  #637
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There's a possibility the Big Four meets in a pre-meeting before the bigger group meets today... We shall see
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...80978041700353

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10-18-2012, 12:26 PM
  #638
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This isn't sounding as good as I'd hoped.

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10-18-2012, 12:27 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Greaaaat. I can just see Sid, Toews, and Iginla up there presenting the PA's proposal.

I would worry more about Jacobs. The biggest hawk. The biggest proponent of high escrows/immediate drop to 50%. He has the highest cap and some of the latest contracts handed out... indicating he wanted the ink down to take advantage of escrow reductions.

Iginla is from the hawkish Flames, Toews from the hawkish Black Hawks. Maybe that will keep their teams or each other civil. Iginla experienced a lockout already, made his money. He'll be inclined to play.


Lots of conflicting reports over the players' proposal. The players aren't the brightest bunch. Their info is going to be off slightly. The writers are getting info from these sources. I don't think the players are going to bother toying with percentages beyond this season. Cap escrow like NBA. bargain contract structure. Buyouts and AHL contracts. Too much to get back when everyone knows it'll be 50/50.

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10-18-2012, 12:27 PM
  #640
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Don't know how reputable Rimer is.

@JoshRimerHockey: Have been told that the NHLPA's counter offer for the most part will be off the NHL's latest offer.

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10-18-2012, 12:30 PM
  #641
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Revenue sharing was $150M annually in the 2005 CBA.

NHLPA proposed $240M in revenue sharing.

NHL proposed $190M and now its $200M

NHL proposal

Quote:
NHL commits to Revenue Sharing Pool of $200 million for 2012/13 season (based on assumption of $3.303 Billion in actual HRR). Amount will be adjusted upward or downward in proportion to Actual HRR results for 2012/13. Revenue Sharing Pools in future years will be calculated proportionately.

At least one-half of the total Revenue Sharing Pool (50%) will be raised from the Top 10 Revenue Grossing Clubs in a manner to be determined by the NHL.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643570

At least $100M is coming from the top 10 teams. It could be $120M coming from the top 10 teams. NHL determines that.

Quote:
In the 2011-12 season, the maximum any of the top 10 revenue teams in the NHL paid in revenue sharing was about $14-million.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4451062/

$14M maximum. Revenue sharing was $150M. The max will increase with revenue sharing at $200M or more. The Rangers will be paying the max because how much revenue they generate. Nick Kypreos and Doug MacLean were discussing revenue sharing today on the radio. It will cost some teams an extra $10M annually. $24M. 6 year CBA. $144M in total. The Rangers can't a compliance buyout for $144M?

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10-18-2012, 12:30 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
This isn't sounding as good as I'd hoped.
i think its too early to say that...we knew that a deal wouldn't be done today. if they come out of today's meeting saying that talks will continue then today is good day. its only if they come out of the room in a hissy fit and break off talks that its a disaster

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10-18-2012, 12:32 PM
  #643
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The question remains what is NHLPA adding? Hopefully we'll know soon
https://twitter.com/JoshRimerHockey/...82134746845184

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10-18-2012, 12:32 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Don't know how reputable Rimer is.

@JoshRimerHockey: Have been told that the NHLPA's counter offer for the most part will be off the NHL's latest offer.
gotta figure that most of the stuff will be...but the problem is that the things that might not be are the things that are the biggest and could kill things

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10-18-2012, 12:33 PM
  #645
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not necessarily a bad thing the sides are pushing back the meeting. just need more time to iron out the details.

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10-18-2012, 12:34 PM
  #646
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I guess my biggest worry is that the NHLPA will be trying to sell the NHL on some kind of modified revenue sharing, or SOMETHING that they believe better addresses the systematic revenue problems the smaller teams have, and that the NHL isn't interested in the least and just wants to reduce player salaries

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Old
10-18-2012, 12:35 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Don't know how reputable Rimer is.

@JoshRimerHockey: Have been told that the NHLPA's counter offer for the most part will be off the NHL's latest offer.
Right in line with "not everything from the league's offer." Pessimists take that as barely anything. Everything the league proposed, outside on AHL contracts and contract structure, has been covered by player proposals.

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10-18-2012, 12:39 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Don't know how reputable Rimer is.

@JoshRimerHockey: Have been told that the NHLPA's counter offer for the most part will be off the NHL's latest offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I guess my biggest worry is that the NHLPA will be trying to sell the NHL on some kind of modified revenue sharing, or SOMETHING that they believe better addresses the systematic revenue problems the smaller teams have, and that the NHL isn't interested in the least and just wants to reduce player salaries
Fehr would have done that already. He indicated radical changes to the system... if the season was cancelled. I take that as a luxury tax system. Fehr has steered clear of it thus far, its a game changer. He's smarter than that. It could fix the owner issues, but that's not a player issue. His guys want to play.

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10-18-2012, 12:40 PM
  #649
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Per player source,NHLPA #CBA proposal "should be interesting today because it comes closer to NHL ideology".
https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...84912768618498

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10-18-2012, 12:46 PM
  #650
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#CBA Hearing that the NHLPA is discussing multiple scenarios to present to NHL today...expect pushback on systemic issues
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...86817825685504

The NHL will give them those in exchange for 50/50 and contract term limits.

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