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Luongo Thread - Gardiner or Bust Edition (Mod Warning in OP)

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:27 AM
  #1
Royal Canuck
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Luongo Thread - Gardiner or Bust Edition (Mod Warning in OP)



Continue.

If you're gunna come here and tell Canuck fans they're wrong about Luongo and his value, here's a piece of advice; Dont.

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:22 AM
  #2
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I don't understand the relevance of Bon Jovi to this thread, but I'll take it.

@Sunshine Rays last post: I believe Burke believes the price will drop with the new CBA. That could mean a lot of things, to me it means Gillis will have to accept an equivalent offer to what Burke has been proposing to him. However, Burke has been wrong before. Wrong about shootouts in the NHL, wrong about Dan Cloutier and other goaltending aspects of the game. He could be wrong again here. And I can see that happening.

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10-18-2012, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I don't understand the relevance of Bon Jovi to this thread, but I'll take it.

@Sunshine Rays last post: I believe Burke believes the price will drop with the new CBA. That could mean a lot of things, to me it means Gillis will have to accept an equivalent offer to what Burke has been proposing to him. However, Burke has been wrong before. Wrong about shootouts in the NHL, wrong about Dan Cloutier and other goaltending aspects of the game. He could be wrong again here. And I can see that happening.
Woaaaah, and we're half way there (hopefully to making a deal)

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10-18-2012, 04:23 AM
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Is it safe to say that anyone who still thinks we're getting Gardiner+ in a Luongo deal is Living on a Prayer? I mean, if that deal did go down, TML fans would have to consider Brian Burke as Wanted: Dead or Alive.

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10-18-2012, 04:27 AM
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Is it safe to say that anyone who still thinks we're getting Gardiner+ in a Luongo deal is Living on a Prayer? I mean, if that deal did go down, TML fans would have to consider Brian Burke as Wanted: Dead or Alive.
Now we got someone on the right page.

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10-18-2012, 05:00 AM
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Is it safe to say that anyone who still thinks we're getting Gardiner+ in a Luongo deal is Living on a Prayer? I mean, if that deal did go down, TML fans would have to consider Brian Burke as Wanted: Dead or Alive.
I think you've been sippin' some Bad Medicine, luckylager. If Burke doesn't find a goalie for next season, he's going down - but it won't be in a Blaze of Glory. I'll Keep the Faith that Gillis will get the right return for his club, as Always.

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10-18-2012, 07:32 AM
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if the current proposed CBA goes through I believe Gillis will be trading Schneider, not Luongo

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10-18-2012, 07:46 AM
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Quite frankly I think teams will be more interested in Luongo now. He's an established elite starter with his contract risk mitigtated by the new CBA, teams like Toronto, Edmonton, or Florida would likely want a clear upgrade over what they have.

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10-18-2012, 08:28 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
Woaaaah, and we're half way there (hopefully to making a deal)
ONLY halfway?

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10-18-2012, 09:34 AM
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Would anybody involved have a problem if Luongo and the Canucks renegotiated? For the transition to the new CBA. Maybe they can find a new arrangement that's better for both of them.


Last edited by middletoe: 10-18-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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10-18-2012, 09:39 AM
  #11
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Would anybody involved have a problem if Luongo and the Canucks renegotiated? For the transition to the new CBA. Maybe they can find a new arrangement that's better for both of them. A transition renegotiation period.
Renegotiating contracts is a thing of the past, no way does the league open that up again.

And if they allow amnesty buyouts they almost certainly will stop teams from re-signing the players they've just bought out.

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10-18-2012, 09:52 AM
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Renegotiating contracts is a thing of the past, no way does the league open that up again.

And if they allow amnesty buyouts they almost certainly will stop teams from re-signing the players they've just bought out.
I'm talking renegotiated contracts that are good for both sides, not just one.

... And so are you

Do you know what they don't like about them?

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10-18-2012, 09:53 AM
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Which of the Canuck's goalies has more trade value, if traded to the Leafs?

Luongo would return?

Snieder would return?

Which one, therefore, should be traded?

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10-18-2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Which of the Canuck's goalies has more trade value, if traded to the Leafs?

Luongo would return?

Snieder would return?

Which one, therefore, should be traded?
If Luongo gets you more I trade Luongo.

If Schneider gets you more I trade Luongo.

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10-18-2012, 10:08 AM
  #15
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I'm talking renegotiated contracts that are good for both sides, not just one.

... And so are you

Do you know what they don't like about them?
I think it is just bad business for all sides (in principle at least, I know there are cases where things could be argued to work out for everyone).

To look at a few examples..

Let's say the New York Rangers and Wade Redden agreed to reduce his salary by $3.5m per season, the Rangers because they are wasting money on him and Redden because he wants to play in the NHL again. Redden might not have a problem leaving that money on the table as an individual but the players association almost certainly would because their member is taking a pay cut on what should be a guaranteed contract.

Let's say that Cory Schneider wins the Hart and Vezina trophies this year and decides he is worth way more than $4m, in a system where renegotiation is allowed he can go to the Canucks and demand a raise even though he put pen to paper on a deal paying him less for the following two seasons. Obviously this is a huge problem for the league and for teams - controlling costs is of huge value to them.

Now let's say that Roberto Luongo and the Canucks mutually decide to renegotiate his contract two years (and $17m paid out) into his 12 year $64m deal. If they just split up the remaining $47m over the remaining ten years his cap hit is reduced to $4.7m and his cap hit over the course of a deal (or rather, two deals) in which Luongo was paid $64m will add up to about $57m. The league would have a huge problem with this because it literally and blatantly circumvents the salary cap, rather than the metaphorical way in which Luongo's current deal does.

Basically, renegotiating contracts means that nothing is guaranteed - teams can threaten AHL demotions and other shoddy treatment to pressure players to give up concessions they earned previously, the players can threaten to hold out to pressure ownership to renegotiate contracts that had been previously agreed upon.

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10-18-2012, 10:11 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by middletoe View Post
If Luongo gets you more I trade Luongo.

If Schneider gets you more I trade Luongo.
I think you need to consider the current ages of the Canucks' core players. Kessler is the only one close to Snieder's age. Whereas the rest are closer to Luongo's age. I submit that if Luongo is traded than MG will be moving some of his other 'older' core players. Oh wait, they all have NTC's. It appears the Canucks will be in BIG trouble in a year.

Snieder would return the younger 'core' type player (s) that the Canucks need to move forward as a winning team. This is why MG should consider Snieder as the goalie to be moved.

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10-18-2012, 10:19 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Which of the Canuck's goalies has more trade value, if traded to the Leafs?

Luongo would return?

Snieder would return?

Which one, therefore, should be traded?
I honestly don't think Burke pays large for Schnieder, he's hoping to get a vet for a good price or he'll run with his own young guys. He pretty much said as such when Berneir rumours were floating around.

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10-18-2012, 10:22 AM
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I think you need to consider the current ages of the Canucks' core players. Kessler is the only one close to Snieder's age. Whereas the rest are closer to Luongo's age. I submit that if Luongo is traded than MG will be moving some of his other 'older' core players. Oh wait, they all have NTC's. It appears the Canucks will be in BIG trouble in a year.

Snieder would return the younger 'core' type player (s) that the Canucks need to move forward as a winning team. This is why MG should consider Snieder as the goalie to be moved.

Kesler, Edler and Schneider should comprise the backbone of the Canucks moving forward.


Big trouble? Who says Gillis _wants_ to move his older players? His older players are currently in their early 30s. Hardly time to pull the plug.


Further, these older guys will be responsible for teaching the next wave. Gillis wants to transition like Detroit, and this is how they do it. They aren't afraid to retain and play vets. They also let those guys teach the newcomers how to win. Seems like a good plan...

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10-18-2012, 10:22 AM
  #19
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I honestly don't think Burke pays large for Schnieder, he's hoping to get a vet for a good price or he'll run with his own young guys. He pretty much said as such when Berneir rumours were floating around.
That's a good point. I don't think we can put Bernier and the Leafs' current young goalies in the same category with Snieder though. If these goalies were all on the open market, Snieder would return a lot more.

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10-18-2012, 10:28 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I honestly don't think Burke pays large for Schnieder, he's hoping to get a vet for a good price or he'll run with his own young guys. He pretty much said as such when Berneir rumours were floating around.
If the Canucks decide to trade Cory Schneider the discussion stops being about the Leafs and what they are willing to offer and starts being about which teams want to pay the (astronomical, I might add) asking price.

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10-18-2012, 10:30 AM
  #21
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That's a good point. I don't think we can put Bernier and the Leafs' current young goalies in the same category with Snieder though. If these goalies were all on the open market, Snieder would return a lot more.
Oh i absolutely agree. Burke was just generalizing by saying he didn't want to deal for another fairly "unproven" goalie. While i believe Schnieder is the real deal, 68 games essentially makes him fairly "unproven". I think Burke likes his youngsters and is hoping for a vet to bring them along.

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10-18-2012, 10:32 AM
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Well, Unbridled, I see your posts have been removed...but rest assured we will include you in the list of elite teams when your Hawks get an NHL goalie.

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10-18-2012, 10:35 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Oh i absolutely agree. Burke was just generalizing by saying he didn't want to deal for another fairly "unproven" goalie. While i believe Schnieder is the real deal, 68 games essentially makes him fairly "unproven". I think Burke likes his youngsters and is hoping for a vet to bring them along.
I don't think Burke will be willing to pay the price though. He didn't in Vancouver, he wasn't willing when he took over Toronto, and I don't think he'll do now.

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10-18-2012, 10:48 AM
  #24
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To get Schneider the Leafs would have to give up a lot.......Rielly, JVR +

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10-18-2012, 10:52 AM
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To get Schneider the Leafs would have to give up a lot.......Rielly, JVR +
I think Gardiner and JVR would be my asking price. Schneider doesn't leave unless for an overpayment.

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