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Old
10-18-2012, 04:40 PM
  #51
JVR2112
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Streit is better than Gunner

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10-18-2012, 04:41 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
hahahahahaha....some guys really kill me.
Nope, used logic.

What was the logic behind your rankings? Oh wait.....you didn't make any

Heres the thing. First, you need to give me reasons why you think the 3 teams I listed below where I have the leafs are better than us?

Some Leaf things. Ok, That ranking was if we added that Big Center. Hasn't happened yet, but if you read my post, it was hypothetical. So for me to predict a 5 finish, it was"

Leafs add big, top flight center.
Leafs add Loungo....which is a major upgrade. He stinks up the place in the playoffs year in and out, but he has no problem getting his teams to the show. He is also a leader.
Leafs add a potential sniper in JVR. That is a major upgrade.
Leafs add a top guy for bottom 6 in Maclement. Fans will come to love this guy like we all love Brownie.
Leafs have a major upgrade in a coach that actually has a D and PK system.

Please take all those things into affect.


Last edited by Sam Slick*: 10-18-2012 at 04:50 PM.
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10-18-2012, 04:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by JVR2112 View Post
Streit is better than Gunner
both were solid but I gave the edge to Gunnar.

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10-18-2012, 04:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Nope, used logic.

What was the logic behind your rankings? Oh wait.....you didn't make any
Nope. Don't waste my time with useless predictions that don't mean anything and when I see someone list us higher in the standings than the Flyers I have to laugh. We haven't made the playoffs in 8 years and all of a sudden we will be fifth. Ok guy...whatever you're smokin, time to share it with the rest of the board.

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10-18-2012, 04:51 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Sorry EDGE, Im going to have to challenge you on this one my friend.

Lups > Moulson
Tavares > Bozak
Kessel >>Okposo

Mac > Nino
Grabo > Nielson
Kulemin >> Grabner

3rd line is a match

Brown >>> Ullstrom
Reasoner >> Steckel
maclement > Ulstrom

Now the D:

Phaneuf > Hamonic
Gunnarson > Streit
Liles = Visnovsky
Macdonald >>> Franson
Gardiner >> Carkner
Donovan >> Komisarek.

Thats 11 players to 4 with the 3rd line being a wash.

Both isles goalies are better than ours for now.

Again, IMO, Isles are much weaker than many think, plus, their management could trade the first line to Columbus for Dubinsky, they are that stupid.

give this team 3 years of develoment and things will be different, if they stay together.
Well first off why did you rank Ullstorm twice? And how are they stupid? They've made pretty good decisions recently. Especially how they've handled Nabokov. Also Tavares is much much better then Bozak. And yes Kessel is better then Okposo, but Okposo is still a very good two-way winger with git. Kessel can't play D. The first line is still better. I would say Kessel > Moulson, Tavares >>>> Bozak, Lupul > Okposo. That said, Moulson still a 30 goal guy, Okposo could easily hit 20 and 20 and Tavares might make 90 points this season.

How is Kulemin way better then Grabner exactly? Replace Kulemin's two way accumen with Grabner's blazing speed. It's either = or the tiniest of > to Kulie.

And 3rd line isn't a match. Cizikas was probably the best defensive forward among rookies. His play at the World Juniors was amazing and this is a kid who can step in and play top minutes on a PK. He's better then Connolly because at the end of the day, Connolly is going to get injured and be out longterm. Boyes is better then Lombardi, and Bailey is = to Frattin if not better.

Brown = Martin, Reasoner = McClement/STeckel, Ullstorm > Komarov.


On D I would say Phaneuf > Hamonic, Gunnarsson < Streit, Liles < Visnosky (how again is a Norris candidate = to a guy who has never been nominated?), Donovan > Komisarek, MacDonald >> Holzer, Carkner << Gardiner.

Goaltending its easily Nabokov >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reimer

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10-18-2012, 04:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Nope. Don't waste my time with useless predictions that don't mean anything and when I see someone list us higher in the standings than the Flyers I have to laugh. We haven't made the playoffs in 8 years and all of a sudden we will be fifth. Ok guy...whatever you're smokin, time to share it with the rest of the board.
Is your time here that valuable? How much do you earn per hour while here?

Go re read that post please. I added to it.

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10-18-2012, 04:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
I ranked them their based on Burke getting a big 1A center and Loungo. Did you not read that part?
You can't rank teams on what if's . You have them 11th as they sit and that's where you should have left it .

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10-18-2012, 04:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Well first off why did you rank Ullstorm twice? And how are they stupid? They've made pretty good decisions recently. Especially how they've handled Nabokov. Also Tavares is much much better then Bozak. And yes Kessel is better then Okposo, but Okposo is still a very good two-way winger with git. Kessel can't play D. The first line is still better. I would say Kessel > Moulson, Tavares >>>> Bozak, Lupul > Okposo. That said, Moulson still a 30 goal guy, Okposo could easily hit 20 and 20 and Tavares might make 90 points this season.

How is Kulemin way better then Grabner exactly? Replace Kulemin's two way accumen with Grabner's blazing speed. It's either = or the tiniest of > to Kulie.

And 3rd line isn't a match. Cizikas was probably the best defensive forward among rookies. His play at the World Juniors was amazing and this is a kid who can step in and play top minutes on a PK. He's better then Connolly because at the end of the day, Connolly is going to get injured and be out longterm. Boyes is better then Lombardi, and Bailey is = to Frattin if not better.

Brown = Martin, Reasoner = McClement/STeckel, Ullstorm > Komarov.


On D I would say Phaneuf > Hamonic, Gunnarsson < Streit, Liles < Visnosky (how again is a Norris candidate = to a guy who has never been nominated?), Donovan > Komisarek, MacDonald >> Holzer, Carkner << Gardiner.

Goaltending its easily Nabokov >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reimer
My bad on the Ulstom thing. Just a misprint. No biggie
I will admit that they handled Nabby well, but they handled other things in a very bad way. IE RD.
You can't predict that Connolly will get injured. I gave it a wash just for that reason. Bailey I will agree is equal to Frattin. But Lombardi will be replaced with Kadri I think unless Kadri craps the bed or gets traded. You have to expect that some of our guys will excell too if you include Cszakis had his improvement. Happens to us every now and then too.
You are flat out wrong on Brown. On nights he was heart and soul of this team.
Komorov wont be on the leafs. I will be surprised if he makes the Marlies at the rate he is going down there. Have you watched him play? Terrible. He is not outplaying anyone down there and Eakins doesnt just hand out positions like Wilson did.

I already agreed with you on tending. Bottom line is we are still a much better franchise. Everyone will have this or that player slightly different than me. But all in all, we are still many players way ahead with the leafs. Again, Burke is not done either. If its true about Loungo, then Loungo > Nabokov.

I just noticed. You have reasoner = to Maclement. Thats fair, but you cant put steckel in there also. Steckel is weaker than both Maclement and Reasoner..


Last edited by Sam Slick*: 10-18-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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10-18-2012, 05:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
You can't rank teams on what if's . You have them 11th as they sit and that's where you should have left it .
Um yes I can. Its a forum and I made my predictions on 2 players coming here. It looks like we have 1 of the issues taken care of.

I don't believe Hockey Central people on hockey issues, but fact is, they are insiders. When they say "It looks like the leafs have a deal in place for Loungo" I believe that.

I also stated we would have 8th place if it was just Loungo.

Please inform me why the teams below us in my rankings would be better than us.

Washington has no motivation and are pationless. Ovi takes 30 games off and just goes through the motions. If he tried he would be a top 3 in the NHL, but he does not try and is too arrogant of a player. He is a coach killer because of his draft position.

Philly had their run pre trade, felt some positive afteraffects, now their kids have to preform night in and night out.

Florida are in the same division as Carolina and Washington. So I picked them to finish first in their division. People have to recognize that being top in a division gets a higher conference ranking. Florida and Washington flip flopped the entire season last year.


Last edited by Sam Slick*: 10-18-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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Old
10-18-2012, 05:07 PM
  #60
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Kypreos says the leafs will finish last... Colour me surprised.

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10-18-2012, 05:11 PM
  #61
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If we make no further changes, and go into the season with our current roster, I do think we'll be one of the worst teams in the east. Bozak centering our first line, Gunnarsson on our top pairing, quite possibly Komisarek on our 2nd pairing, Reimer as our starting goalie, and a general lack of toughness and defensive ability throughout the lineup. We don't win puck battles, we don't cycle well, we don't defend well against the cycle, as a team we're weak in pretty much all areas except transition offence and PP offence. We were just 2 points ahead of last in the east last season, it's not crazy to predict a similar finish this year.

If we do trade for Luongo, I think that would make a very significant difference. In the salary cap era teams are so close that a few moves can really shake things up. Montreal was last in the east with 78 points, while 92 points got Ottawa into the playoffs (actually, 89 points would have got them into the playoffs), and the Panthers won their division with 94 points. Margins are pretty razor thin between a lot of teams, going from an extremely questionable/unproven #1 goalie (Reimer) to one of the better goalies in the league (Luongo) could legitimately be enough to boost us from one of the worst teams in the east to a team with a decent shot to make the playoffs. The difference between finishing in the 13-15 range and the 8-10 range could easily be about 8-10 points, and I could see upgrading from Reimer to Luongo being enough to change 4-5 losses into wins over the course of a season.

With that being said, I'd like to see what the final changes are with respect to punishing cap evading contracts. If the rules are changed so that a player's cap hit stays with you even if you waive him or he retires, we should probably stay the hell away from Luongo. Honestly, you could argue that we should stay away from him anyways. We still do not have a #1 centre, or really any hope of acquiring a #1 centre. Next year's draft is IMO incredibly strong in terms of top end centre prospects, I really think MacKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm and Monahan are all studs. If we leave our team as is, we could have a great shot at a prospect like that, it may be in our best long term interest to wait 1 more year before seriously attempting to upgrade in net.

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10-18-2012, 05:13 PM
  #62
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It's official then.

Might as well pick another team to watch next year.

The silver lining is as soon as they said Luongo was a principle I knew they were just blowing it out of ..their posterior.

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10-18-2012, 05:14 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Kypreos says the leafs will finish last... Colour me surprised.
Exactly. And, he can barely string a sentence together. There is actually really funny "kypreosisms".

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10-18-2012, 05:17 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
First half can be deceiveing, the intensity and physical play amps up after the new year as the playoff hunt becomes the focus. In the last six weeks it becomes fierce with a take no prisoner alive mentality exsits. Then the Playoffs start and the Refs put their wistles away and it's every man for themselves. It would be almost inhumane for the present Leaf roster to go up against that kind of brutality and come away without casualties.
In the past the exact opposite argument was used.....

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10-18-2012, 05:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
If we make no further changes, and go into the season with our current roster, I do think we'll be one of the worst teams in the east. Bozak centering our first line, Gunnarsson on our top pairing, quite possibly Komisarek on our 2nd pairing, Reimer as our starting goalie, and a general lack of toughness and defensive ability throughout the lineup. We don't win puck battles, we don't cycle well, we don't defend well against the cycle, as a team we're weak in pretty much all areas except transition offence and PP offence. We were just 2 points ahead of last in the east last season, it's not crazy to predict a similar finish this year.

If we do trade for Luongo, I think that would make a very significant difference. In the salary cap era teams are so close that a few moves can really shake things up. Montreal was last in the east with 78 points, while 92 points got Ottawa into the playoffs (actually, 89 points would have got them into the playoffs), and the Panthers won their division with 94 points. Margins are pretty razor thin between a lot of teams, going from an extremely questionable/unproven #1 goalie (Reimer) to one of the better goalies in the league (Luongo) could legitimately be enough to boost us from one of the worst teams in the east to a team with a decent shot to make the playoffs. The difference between finishing in the 13-15 range and the 8-10 range could easily be about 8-10 points, and I could see upgrading from Reimer to Luongo being enough to change 4-5 losses into wins over the course of a season.

With that being said, I'd like to see what the final changes are with respect to punishing cap evading contracts. If the rules are changed so that a player's cap hit stays with you even if you waive him or he retires, we should probably stay the hell away from Luongo. Honestly, you could argue that we should stay away from him anyways. We still do not have a #1 centre, or really any hope of acquiring a #1 centre. Next year's draft is IMO incredibly strong in terms of top end centre prospects, I really think MacKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm and Monahan are all studs. If we leave our team as is, we could have a great shot at a prospect like that, it may be in our best long term interest to wait 1 more year before seriously attempting to upgrade in net.
I "KIND OF" agree. We did make major changes though and we haven't seen them all at once and therefore, can't really put a finger on how we will perforn.

JVR is an upgrade.
Maclement is an upgrade
Carlyle is a major upgrade in coach.

these things have to be taken into consideration, agree?

I completely agree with your assessment with Loungo in nets for us.

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10-18-2012, 05:48 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Um yes I can. Its a forum and I made my predictions on 2 players coming here. It looks like we have 1 of the issues taken care of.

I don't believe Hockey Central people on hockey issues, but fact is, they are insiders. When they say "It looks like the leafs have a deal in place for Loungo" I believe that.

I also stated we would have 8th place if it was just Loungo.

Please inform me why the teams below us in my rankings would be better than us.

Washington has no motivation and are pationless. Ovi takes 30 games off and just goes through the motions. If he tried he would be a top 3 in the NHL, but he does not try and is too arrogant of a player. He is a coach killer because of his draft position.

Philly had their run pre trade, felt some positive afteraffects, now their kids have to preform night in and night out.

Florida are in the same division as Carolina and Washington. So I picked them to finish first in their division. People have to recognize that being top in a division gets a higher conference ranking. Florida and Washington flip flopped the entire season last year.
I have a hard time believing the Lu rumours considering the latest NHL proposal didn't allow these cap circumvention contracts to come off the books even if the player retires . Why would Burke tie himself to a goalie who will be on the books for another decade even if he's not playing ?

Washington had 2 of there core players out for the large portions of the season and still finished ahead of us . Also even though Ovi had an off year he still was one of the most productive players in the NHL . He's also a multiple MVP and we have no one close to him even if he he plays at 80 % . It's also hilarious that a Leaf fan calls Wash pationless .

We're not even close to Philly and there kids arn't relied upon to carry the team so i don't have a clue how you think we're going to be better than them .

Also where the heck are we going to get a num 1 C and what are we going to give up to get him . You act like somehow a team is going to hand us this player for some mid level prospects while at the same time taking some dumps so we can fit him under the cap .

All in all alot of wishful thinking on your part .

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10-18-2012, 05:49 PM
  #67
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hahahaha lmfao!! you made me sqirt beer out of my nose, and a maconalds cheese burger out my A$$!!

Impressive.

Disturbing, but impressive.

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10-18-2012, 05:54 PM
  #68
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We are worse than Islanders..... LOL.

2011-12 Final Standings


Toronto --- 35 W - 37 L - 10 OTL = 80 points (5th last)
Islanders - 34 W - 37 L - 11 OTL = 79 points (4th last)

NYI and Toronto were separated by a single point as a result of one addition Win as opposed to OTL.

You make it sound like these two teams are not close. Some Leaf fans seems to have this impression that its humorous to suggest so, when the standings suggest otherwise.

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10-18-2012, 05:55 PM
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I don't agree. As of right now I don't think this team is a playoff team, but last? No.

Offense

We have a very good first line in which two of three players produced at PPG+:

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel

We have a second line in which all three players are capable of 50+ points:

van Riemsdyk-Grabovski-Kulemin

We have a third line that is defensively responsible and also offensively capable:

Macarthur/Kadri-McClement-Frattin/Kadri

We have a fourth line that is defensively responsible and gritty with two speedsters and a faceoff specialist:

Komarov/Lombardi-Steckel-Brown

Defense:

Top defensive pairing with a solid, albeit number 3-4 defenseman, and an All-Star who plays among the toughest minutes in the league and scores 45+ points:

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf

A second pairing with a top skater who's constantly improving and a big, lanky, slow puck mover:

Gardiner-Franson

A third pairing of a small puckmoving offensive/PP specialist defenseman and a rock solid rookie:

Liles-Holzer

Goaltending:

Not a bad team outside of goaltending (which I don't think anyone can defend). Reimer could surprise, but last season was a bad one for him and with a rookie backing him up there isn't much security.

Reimer
Scrivens

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10-18-2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post

2011-12 Final Standings


Toronto --- 35 W - 37 L - 10 OTL = 80 points (5th last)
Islanders - 34 W - 37 L - 11 OTL = 79 points (4th last)

NYI and Toronto were separated by a single point as a result one addition Win as opposed to OTL.

You make it sound like these two teams are not close. Some Leaf fans seems to have this impression that its humorous to suggest so, when the standings suggest otherwise.
I think it's more that the Islanders were consistently bad, whereas the Leafs were in a playoff spot for around 70% of the season before crashing and burning. That Islanders squad is terrible, especially when considering Niederreiter is being written into the top 9 and he had 1 goal (and point) in 50+ games last year.

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10-18-2012, 06:00 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Sorry EDGE, Im going to have to challenge you on this one my friend.

Lups > Moulson
Tavares > Bozak
Kessel >>Okposo

Mac > Nino
Grabo > Nielson
Kulemin >> Grabner

3rd line is a match

Brown >>> Ullstrom
Reasoner >> Steckel
maclement > Ulstrom

Now the D:

Phaneuf > Hamonic
Gunnarson > Streit
Liles = Visnovsky
Macdonald >>> Franson
Gardiner >> Carkner
Donovan >> Komisarek.

Thats 11 players to 4 with the 3rd line being a wash.

Both isles goalies are better than ours for now.

Again, IMO, Isles are much weaker than many think, plus, their management could trade the first line to Columbus for Dubinsky, they are that stupid.

give this team 3 years of develoment and things will be different, if they stay together.
Tavares >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bozak

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10-18-2012, 06:02 PM
  #72
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I don't agree. As of right now I don't think this team is a playoff team, but last? No.

Offense

We have a very good first line in which two of three players produced at PPG+:

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel

We have a second line in which all three players are capable of 50+ points:

van Riemsdyk-Grabovski-Kulemin

We have a third line that is defensively responsible and also offensively capable:

Macarthur/Kadri-McClement-Frattin/Kadri

We have a fourth line that is defensively responsible and gritty with two speedsters and a faceoff specialist:

Komarov/Lombardi-Steckel-Brown

Defense:

Top defensive pairing with a solid, albeit number 3-4 defenseman, and an All-Star who plays among the toughest minutes in the league and scores 45+ points:

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf

A second pairing with a top skater who's constantly improving and a big, lanky, slow puck mover:

Gardiner-Franson

A third pairing of a small puckmoving offensive/PP specialist defenseman and a rock solid rookie:

Liles-Holzer

Goaltending:

Not a bad team outside of goaltending (which I don't think anyone can defend). Reimer could surprise, but last season was a bad one for him and with a rookie backing him up there isn't much security.

Reimer
Scrivens
You have a team with some of the weakest goaltending in the league. You have a team that is soft and run out of buildings against teams like Boston. You have a team that is prone to mental and defensive lapses at key times in the games. You have a non-playoff team is what you have.

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10-18-2012, 06:06 PM
  #73
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10-18-2012, 06:06 PM
  #74
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Sam Slick, wake up from your dream of us being fifth, the biggest homer posts omg.

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10-18-2012, 06:15 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws;55097211[B
]I have a hard time believing the Lu rumours considering the latest NHL proposal didn't allow these cap circumvention contract[/B]s to come off the books even if the player retires . Why would Burke tie himself to a goalie who will be on the books for another decade even if he's not playing ?

Washington had 2 of there core players out for the large portions of the season and still finished ahead of us . Also even though Ovi had an off year he still was one of the most productive players in the NHL . He's also a multiple MVP and we have no one close to him even if he he plays at 80 % . It's also hilarious that a Leaf fan calls Wash pationless .

We're not even close to Philly and there kids arn't relied upon to carry the team so i don't have a clue how you think we're going to be better than them .

Also where the heck are we going to get a num 1 C and what are we going to give up to get him . You act like somehow a team is going to hand us this player for some mid level prospects while at the same time taking some dumps so we can fit him under the cap .

All in all alot of wishful thinking on your part .
Well, its quite possible players like Lu re negotiate their contracts. He will be a back up in Vancouver and he has been given the hint he is not wanted there anymore. So, if any team wants him, or he wants to go anywhere else, with the possible new CBA rules, he will be forced to renegotiate....or stay in Vancouver. Simple.

As for your washington comment, the games that I have watched were flat out boring with the occasional burst from OVI. They also lost a top point getter in Semin.

Philly is up and down. Also, they have tender problems that go back 20 years. They are going to be very good....or flat out stink.

As for where we get a number 1 center? I dont know....but I am sure Burke does. It will come from an unexpected place, but he will get him. Thats just my opinion. This team 3 or 4 years ago, had no depth in the minors or on the Leafs, and had more holes than swiss cheese. Now there are only 2 holes. One at center and in net. If in fact the rumors are true and loungo comes here. Then there will be only 1 hole left. IMO, though, bringing in a top shut down D man would be nice as well. I just don't see the glory on D that most see. Phaneuf is very good, but he isn't great. He has the occasional solid hit per game, but IMO we need that type of D man that other teams are afraid of.

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