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The Official Android Thread Part VIII: A slice of Key Lime Pie

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Old
11-04-2012, 09:51 AM
  #226
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I plan on selling my unlocked GNex and upgrading to the Nexus 4.

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11-04-2012, 05:10 PM
  #227
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http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/03/e...ing/#continued

Interesting editorial by Engadget.

Frankly, I think that some of the Google/Amazon pricing is borderline predatory pricing. Google is currently being investigated for an anti-trust suit and this pricing that they do may be more fuel for the government.

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11-04-2012, 05:24 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/03/e...ing/#continued

Interesting editorial by Engadget.

Frankly, I think that some of the Google/Amazon pricing is borderline predatory pricing. Google is currently being investigated for an anti-trust suit and this pricing that they do may be more fuel for the government.
So because they priced it where they wanted it makes it anti-trust? I'm just confused...

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11-04-2012, 05:31 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
So because they priced it where they wanted it makes it anti-trust? I'm just confused...
This isn't what the potential anti-trust suit is about. That suit is about web searching and how Google does it. The FTC just recommended the suit to go forward, so I think you'll be seeing it in the next year or so.

Predatory pricing schemes are pricing so low as to drive the competition out. It is a very hard thing to actually prove and you need a lot of evidence for it. But I can certainly see something like that occurring. It's certainly not a slam dunk at all.

When you have a monolithic company like Google, you can't just "price[] it where [you] want[]" if that pricing is far below market level. It's hard to argue that the Nexus 4 is not priced extremely far below market level, as well. It's less than half the price of a competitors phone unlocked. So if Google is actively pricing below a certain threshold to drive companies out of the market, then they would be in trouble.

The interesting bit would come because Google isn't actually making the phones. Just setting the prices and selling them. Anti-trust law is so absurd and all over the place, anyway, that I have no idea if that would end up mattering or not. I think I'm going to run this by my anti-trust professor, though. He is a former FTC chief after all.

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11-04-2012, 05:33 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
This isn't what the potential anti-trust suit is about. That suit is about web searching and how Google does it. The FTC just recommended the suit to go forward, so I think you'll be seeing it in the next year or so.

Predatory pricing schemes are pricing so low as to drive the competition out. It is a very hard thing to actually prove and you need a lot of evidence for it. But I can certainly see something like that occurring. It's certainly not a slam dunk at all.
Well the Wii was priced substantially lower than the PS3 and 360 and still is, and did that drive away the competition? No. Just using an example though. Web searching? Really?

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11-04-2012, 05:42 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Well the Wii was priced substantially lower than the PS3 and 360 and still is, and did that drive away the competition? No. Just using an example though. Web searching? Really?
The argument against an anti-trust suit against Nintendo would be that the Wii is not equal technology and caters to a different group of people (children and casual gamers). The same really can't be said for the Nexus 4, as the only real technological deficiency is a lack of LTE. And I don't think that would "save" them from an anti-trust suit if it ever came to it.

Google actually has two potential anti-trust suits on its hands (I didn't even know about the second one).

1: Web seaching

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...n-ftc-v-google

2: Blocking smartphone manufacturer access to certain patents

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...tent-suit.html

Google has big problems on its hands. Anti-trust law no longer penalizes firms for being too big (thankfully) and attaining monopoly status just by sheer success. So if the FTC is going to go after Google on two potential fronts, they must have a huge amount of evidence. These suits are incredibly expensive, too.

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11-04-2012, 06:55 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/03/e...ing/#continued

Interesting editorial by Engadget.

Frankly, I think that some of the Google/Amazon pricing is borderline predatory pricing. Google is currently being investigated for an anti-trust suit and this pricing that they do may be more fuel for the government.
Didn't read the whole thing but I agree that the current level of competition is not sustainable. The development cycle is too short, margins are too thin and ultimately the profitability will erode for everyone but the top two or three manufacturers. We're already seeing an example of that with HTC pulling out of tablet manufacturing and we're already seeing Apple basically bowing out of the specs arms race with their most recent product cycle.

After phones have 1080p screens (insert higher number for tablets), >2GHz quad-core processors and more storage than you could reasonable fill, the current market trajectory will hit a wall. At that point content providers will be the focus. That's why Samsung is starting a music service (IIRC) and Sony could actually maintain relevance, but HTC and LG will be increasingly in trouble.

Note however that selling a device at cost and profiting through content is not even remotely close to predatory pricing. An example of predatory pricing would be if Apple (with the biggest cash reserves of an manufacturer currently) started coming out with a directly comparable device to each of their competitors models and sold them at a loss until their competitors went under - basically starting a war of attrition so they could raise prices drastically after. It doesn't really apply as much in this sense because the industry is too diverse. A better example would be Rogers (through its discount brands) price matching Wind after it launched and offering a cash bonus to switch, while advertising that Wind had terrible call quality, dropped calls, bad coverage, etc.

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11-04-2012, 07:07 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by vBurmi View Post
Note however that selling a device at cost and profiting through content is not even remotely close to predatory pricing.
Is Google actually selling at cost? I was under the assumption that they were selling at a loss with some of these devices (at least the Nexus 4). The 7 supposedly costs around $150 in parts alone. Google supposedly breaks even with the 7 after manufacturing, promotion, advertising, taxes, warranties, packaging, shipping, etc. All of that has to be taken into account.

I would actually be somewhat surprised if Google is actually making a profit on the devices after that.

The issue in any anti-trust suit based on predatory pricing would be quantifying all of that. As seen in Matsushita v. Zenith, it is very, very, very hard to sustain a predatory pricing suit (although in hindsight it is painfully obvious that the Japanese companies in that case WERE colluding and involved in a predatory pricing scheme).

Google is just as evil as Microsoft before it (and just as evil as Apple). So it would not surprise me at all to learn that the pricing schemes are indeed meant to be predatory.


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11-04-2012, 09:12 PM
  #234
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Google is not gonna lose an anti-trust suit because they are pricing their tablets and phones too cheaply. Many companies have a similar model. Sometimes it's to get market share when entering a market and some are like Amazon where selling a tablet at cost or below is directed at getting people to use their other services. Like giving away a shaving handle, so you buy the blades. Or selling the X-box below cost to make money selling the games.

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11-04-2012, 09:19 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Is Google actually selling at cost? I was under the assumption that they were selling at a loss with some of these devices (at least the Nexus 4). The 7 supposedly costs around $150 in parts alone. Google supposedly breaks even with the 7 after manufacturing, promotion, advertising, taxes, warranties, packaging, shipping, etc. All of that has to be taken into account.

I would actually be somewhat surprised if Google is actually making a profit on the devices after that.

The issue in any anti-trust suit based on predatory pricing would be quantifying all of that. As seen in Matsushita v. Zenith, it is very, very, very hard to sustain a predatory pricing suit (although in hindsight it is painfully obvious that the Japanese companies in that case WERE colluding and involved in a predatory pricing scheme).

Google is just as evil as Microsoft before it (and just as evil as Apple). So it would not surprise me at all to learn that the pricing schemes are indeed meant to be predatory.
Should have been more specific; I don't think selling at a loss is necessarily predatory pricing if you're expecting to make the difference back in content later. You can essentially call that a net gain. It's no different than how every product starts out at a loss due to development costs occurring long before it ever goes on sale. Heck, you don't even have to argue that you were hoping to make money in setting your pricing, only that you would have lost more if you were to price higher and/or let some stock go unused. Nothing predatory about Nexus pricing.

Suppressing search results will get them in trouble though - I believe they've already been fined for that in the EU.

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11-05-2012, 12:03 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vBurmi View Post
Should have been more specific; I don't think selling at a loss is necessarily predatory pricing if you're expecting to make the difference back in content later. You can essentially call that a net gain. It's no different than how every product starts out at a loss due to development costs occurring long before it ever goes on sale. Heck, you don't even have to argue that you were hoping to make money in setting your pricing, only that you would have lost more if you were to price higher and/or let some stock go unused. Nothing predatory about Nexus pricing.

Suppressing search results will get them in trouble though - I believe they've already been fined for that in the EU.
Selling at a loss itself isn't indicative of predatory pricing. Hence why you have to investigate the motives. It's not as simple as just picking out people selling under cost (although it certainly is an indicator, at the very least).

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11-05-2012, 12:05 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Google is not gonna lose an anti-trust suit because they are pricing their tablets and phones too cheaply. Many companies have a similar model. Sometimes it's to get market share when entering a market and some are like Amazon where selling a tablet at cost or below is directed at getting people to use their other services. Like giving away a shaving handle, so you buy the blades. Or selling the X-box below cost to make money selling the games.
You need to re-read what I wrote because you clearly misunderstood it. I wasn't suggesting at all that they would lose an anti-trust suit based on predatory pricing schemes. I was merely indicating that such a suit might actually occur in the future because of such pricing.

The other two impending anti-trust suits against Google do not involve predatory pricing, but other anti-trust issues.

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11-05-2012, 08:20 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/03/e...ing/#continued

Interesting editorial by Engadget.

Frankly, I think that some of the Google/Amazon pricing is borderline predatory pricing. Google is currently being investigated for an anti-trust suit and this pricing that they do may be more fuel for the government.
Linus Torvalds didn't like it...

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11-05-2012, 09:24 AM
  #239
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I wouldn't expect Linus to say anything different though.

While I didn't think engadget's article was very articulate, I don't see how most companies are expecting to make money off of Android, the pricing is getting cutthroat, and maybe one, two headset makers are turning a profit (Samsung, HTC). Amazon is selling a consumption device, and hoping to make money on the ecosystem (and they're hoping people opt for the ads subsidized model).

Google will make money, but that's because of their business model - just sell more ads. Linus is happy, because their's more Linux devices in people's hands.

I see it like Acer; they developed a reputation of selling products at a cheaper price, not the greatest quality, but generally, you got want to paid for. However, when I've seen them try and sell an ultrabook for $1000 or so, I just think "but it's Acer!". I'm not going to pay $1k for an Acer, it might be fine, but they have a cheap reputation, and if I was going to spend that much, I might as well get Asus or Apple.

Android is going to develop a model of selling devices at near cost, and there will no market for more profitable devices, squeezing out the smaller OEMs, and there's no point in coming out with more expensive devices, because a couple months later, a Nexus device will come along and undercut it. (look at the Nexus 7 or 10 vs the other Asus or Samsung tabs, why buy those, when the Nexus is less but has better specs?).

TLR: There's not as much incentive to try and sell a more expensive product, when someone can buy a similar one for half as much. Flip side, there's little profit for the OEM, but the consumer wins.

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11-05-2012, 09:51 AM
  #240
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How can I find it?
XDA is your best bet for good ROMs. Try here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1672

I personally use Synergy, which runs on the latest JB leak. Synergy: http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1792499

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11-05-2012, 11:32 AM
  #241
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The consumer only wins if the other makers stay in the market. Otherwise, the consumer begins to lose when she loses the ability to have a choice (one of the key philosophies behind prosecuting predatory pricing schemes). So even that logic is strained to the edge in Google's pricing. I think that Linus's article is incredibly short sighted.

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11-06-2012, 12:16 PM
  #242
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The Google Apps from 4.2 just leaked. I've been running the keyboard, camera, gallery and clock for a few days now, and they're all pretty delicious.

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/11/06...-galaxy-nexus/

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11-06-2012, 03:41 PM
  #243
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the sphere camera is amazing, its so cool to use

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11-07-2012, 01:42 PM
  #244
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Anyone buy the Note II yet? Hoping for some user opinions and not just some glossing-over reviews.

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11-07-2012, 02:23 PM
  #245
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Anyone buy the Note II yet? Hoping for some user opinions and not just some glossing-over reviews.
Not me, but I heard LeBron loves it.

It's actually only $199 through Rogers. I know there was some speculation it was going to be $299, but indeed it's not. Not sure if it's been mentioned.

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11-07-2012, 03:33 PM
  #246
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Not me, but I heard LeBron loves it.

It's actually only $199 through Rogers. I know there was some speculation it was going to be $299, but indeed it's not. Not sure if it's been mentioned.
Hoping for a LeBron commercial riffing on the idiotic iPhone 5 "Your thumb goes from here *shuffles phone in hand* to here" one.

So Americans pay $300 on a two year contract, and we pay $200 on a three year contract that allows for hardware upgrades after one year. Not a bad deal for Canadians.

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11-08-2012, 03:48 AM
  #247
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If you'd like to be able to copy files to your phone wirelessly and directly (i.e. without using a 3rd-party hosting service like Dropbox), here are two options for you.

A. Share a folder on your Windows PC, install a file manager that supports SMB, then have the file manager connect to that share. I highly recommend Solid Explorer (link here), a new file manager that has SMB support built-in. The cool thing about Solid Explorer is that it has two panels, so that you can copy and move files between two locations without having to copy/cut, change folder and paste. A few other file managers have SMB support built-in, as well, while some (like Astro and Ghost Commander) have SMB plugins that you have to install from the Play Store to add that functionality.

B. This option requires a rooted phone. Install SambaDroid (link here), which will create an SMB server on your Android device (as opposed to your PC being the SMB server, as in option A). Next, go on your Windows PC and either 1) find SAMBADROID under Network, 2) put \\SAMBADROID\sdcard into Windows Explorer's address bar, or, for a more permanent option, 3) go to "Computer" in Windows Explorer, click on "Map Network Drive" and put in \\SAMBADROID\sdcard as the folder.

BTW, you may recall that I posted a year ago about a similar app, named Samba Filesharing. In case any of you have been using it, it has problems with Jelly Bean and the author has seemingly abandoned the app, which is why Samba Droid was developed. So, if you've been using Samba Filesharing, especially with Jelly Bean, you'll probably want to switch to SambaDroid.

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11-08-2012, 08:44 AM
  #248
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I just use Wifi File Explorer. You connect to your home's wifi, enable the app on your phone, then enter the displayed URL on your computer. You can move anything around however you want.

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11-08-2012, 10:57 AM
  #249
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Any tips for keeping battery life going on the S3? I find it dies pretty fast, at least compared to my old Blackberry. I was told that the battery life sucks for the first week or so and then somehow it gets better? Is that true?

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11-08-2012, 11:54 AM
  #250
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Any tips for keeping battery life going on the S3? I find it dies pretty fast, at least compared to my old Blackberry. I was told that the battery life sucks for the first week or so and then somehow it gets better? Is that true?
Micromanage your screen brightness, Turn off data when you don't need it, make sure things like SmartStay isn't on (unless you like it and use it).

You could also try third party apps like JuiceDefender.

Also, battery life of large screen LTE capable phones will be considerably worse than old Blackberries that go on for a week on a charge.

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