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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

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10-23-2012, 11:49 AM
  #351
turcotte8
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Pink Floyd should make a new album entitled Animals 2.
  • Cows
  • Chickens
  • Chucacabras
  • Cowboys at the rink (parts 1 & 2)
One should be "Hawks" for the owners and "Weasel" for Bettman.

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10-23-2012, 11:57 AM
  #352
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Not the point. Yes, it is billionaires vs. millionaires, but the NHL owners also need the cash flows.

Players are so fed up with Bettman, so indigant at the owners and still smarting from the last lockout, that they will do everything that Fehr says, when he says. IMO, Fehr has carte blance here. So, if Bettman is stupid enough to cancel a season, then my guess is that the cap is thrown back into the equation.
I'm sure they would, and then Bettman would throw guaranteed contracts back on the negotiating table and everyone loses.

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10-23-2012, 12:00 PM
  #353
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"@BroadStBull: Asked if more games would be scrapped Fri. if CBA isn't in place, Daly said he wasn't focussed on additional cancellations "at this point.""

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10-23-2012, 12:02 PM
  #354
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I'm sure they would, and then Bettman would throw guaranteed contracts back on the negotiating table and everyone loses.
yes and it'd be a **** show

But again, I can't imagine all of the teams are that happy with the idea of losing an entire season or more and there would be pressure on both sides to fix this and get something done.

Again, the league is doing well enough that throwing away billions of dollars by canceling the whole season really isn't in its best interest

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10-23-2012, 12:03 PM
  #355
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Not the point. Yes, it is billionaires vs. millionaires, but the NHL owners also need the cash flows.

Players are so fed up with Bettman, so indigant at the owners and still smarting from the last lockout, that they will do everything that Fehr says, when he says. IMO, Fehr has carte blance here. So, if Bettman is stupid enough to cancel a season, then my guess is that the cap is thrown back into the equation.
I also believe the players can win respect. As I've said, it's only a function of how much is respect worth?

Personally, If you ask me...I'm interested in earning dollars. I'm always happy to let others win respect.

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10-23-2012, 12:03 PM
  #356
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At this point the NHLPA should come up with another creative proposal. It would gain them some sympathy in the PR battle and might jump start something. The NHL couldn't stay on the high ground about having made two proposals back to back and negotiating against themselves.

If the latest proposal actually had some consessions in it, public opinion would sway and force the owners' hands.

Potentially.

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10-23-2012, 12:04 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
yes and it'd be a **** show

But again, I can't imagine all of the teams are that happy with the idea of losing an entire season or more and there would be pressure on both sides to fix this and get something done.

Again, the league is doing well enough that throwing away billions of dollars by canceling the whole season really isn't in its best interest
I agree. The fact that they are even to this point is mystifying.

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10-23-2012, 12:05 PM
  #358
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From: @kevin_mcgran
Sent: Oct 23, 2012 12:56p

I asked a management-side (independent) labour lawyer about GMs talking to players. His reax: Are you kidding me? #NHLPA #NHL #Lockout

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10-23-2012, 12:05 PM
  #359
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Bettman had a bold vision, jumped into it head first and it partially failed. I admire the balls it took to make a national brand, but he miscalculated the world wide pool of talent and the viability of hockey in many markets. He banked on a flood of stars filling out 30 stars and driving down salaries. Expansion rode on that premise. The current state is a result of that concept.

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10-23-2012, 12:05 PM
  #360
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From: @kevin_mcgran
Sent: Oct 23, 2012 12:57p

He further said it would be deemed bargaining in bad faith in a pure labour-mgmt negotiation. #NHLPA #NHL #lockout

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10-23-2012, 12:06 PM
  #361
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Gary needs new lawyers.

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10-23-2012, 12:07 PM
  #362
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Kukla's Korner .com ‏@kuklaskorner

All of the Phoenix players should have called their 'owner' Gary Bettman with questions during the 48 hour secret window period.

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10-23-2012, 12:12 PM
  #363
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Kukla's Korner .com ‏@kuklaskorner

All of the Phoenix players should have called their 'owner' Gary Bettman with questions during the 48 hour secret window period.
Well that's just stupid, since Gary Bettman doesn't own the Coyotes.

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10-23-2012, 12:24 PM
  #364
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Maybe I'm missing something; why is it a big deal if the GMs answer questions from the players regarding the proposal? Maybe I'm having a brain fart.

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10-23-2012, 12:27 PM
  #365
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Well that's just stupid, since Gary Bettman doesn't own the Coyotes.
Why so serious?

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10-23-2012, 12:29 PM
  #366
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What other avenue does he have? What would a more creative problem solver do?

Also, they did play the 1993-94 season without a CBA, but that didn't lead to a deal during the season.
Avenues? I don't know specifically. But he had a more receptive Union prior to the first offer. They went to battle stations at that point, anticipated the lockout and negotiated not for a solution but to retain what was theirs.

Personally, if they are well and truly losing money, you bring in guys over the summer and a build a relationship through brainstorming sessions. The players wanted to explore a new system if the old one was broken. They don't understand keeping the old one with new numbers if it doesn't work. I think Shanahan's hockey summit accomplished that. It got the sides, who really don't hate each other, talking again.

The first offer crushed that good will and trust. It generated the rhetoric: record revenues, southern markets, summer contracts, rollbacks.

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10-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #367
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Why so serious?
My bad, people have just been saying that for so long already with all the Phoenix relocation talks.

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10-23-2012, 12:33 PM
  #368
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I think the PR game is more or less worthless. It's clear that both don't care about the fans and are operating under the assumption that the fans will come right back. Taking the fans for granted is a given because the fans come back, regardless of who "wins".

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10-23-2012, 12:41 PM
  #369
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I think the PR game is more or less worthless. It's clear that both don't care about the fans and are operating under the assumption that the fans will come right back. Taking the fans for granted is a given because the fans come back, regardless of who "wins".
I have this fantasy that someone will catch Bettman on camera saying something like "who cares about the fans, they're sheep and will come back anyways"

Despite everyone pretty much knowing that's how the NHL feels, hearing its commissioner actually say that could be the thing that prompts them to boycott the NHL

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10-23-2012, 12:52 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I have this fantasy that someone will catch Bettman on camera saying something like "who cares about the fans, they're sheep and will come back anyways"

Despite everyone pretty much knowing that's how the NHL feels, hearing its commissioner actually say that could be the thing that prompts them to boycott the NHL
Maybe they'd come back if the NHL made a grand jesture like... oh I don't know... putting a big "THANK YOU FANS" on the ice or something?

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10-23-2012, 12:52 PM
  #371
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I think the PR game is more or less worthless. It's clear that both don't care about the fans and are operating under the assumption that the fans will come right back. Taking the fans for granted is a given because the fans come back, regardless of who "wins".
Of course the fans will come back. Losing sponsorships and tv deals is the much more pressing concern for the owners/players.

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10-23-2012, 01:06 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I have this fantasy that someone will catch Bettman on camera saying something like "who cares about the fans, they're sheep and will come back anyways"

Despite everyone pretty much knowing that's how the NHL feels, hearing its commissioner actually say that could be the thing that prompts them to boycott the NHL
Why does he need to be caught saying it? His actions say it. And have for over a decade.

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10-23-2012, 01:11 PM
  #373
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Why does he need to be caught saying it? His actions say it. And have for over a decade.
That could go for any commissioner. Do you think any of the major pro sports leagues here give a **** about the fans? The NBA just locked out last year and the NFL trotted out replacement refs to save a couple of million.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:30 PM
  #374
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Why does he need to be caught saying it? His actions say it. And have for over a decade.
Cuz I don't think the fans really care until they have something so blatant they can get worked up about it. There's just something about someone coming right out and saying that they think you're a piece of **** that gets people riled up. Otherwise, fans just ignore it

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10-23-2012, 01:36 PM
  #375
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Cuz I don't think the fans really care until they have something so blatant they can get worked up about it. There's just something about someone coming right out and saying that they think you're a piece of **** that gets people riled up. Otherwise, fans just ignore it
The Frank Luntz crap did that for me. I hate that guy with a passion.

I don't care if they don't come back. Maybe I'll actually get decent at NHL 13. As it stands I can't even beat the computer.

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