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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

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Old
10-31-2012, 03:14 PM
  #951
DutchShamrock
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I can't believe the owners and players caused the hurricane. Typical.

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10-31-2012, 03:21 PM
  #952
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Only outcome I want to see at this point is for both parties to lose lots of money. To hell with the owner's and player's, I guess living comfortably just isn't good enough for these toolbag's. As the rest of the human race scrapes by and struggles to pay for a child's education or pull money from that vacation fund to pay for home repairs... Fu**'em all.. Real life goes on...


Last edited by Jackpot: 10-31-2012 at 05:19 PM.
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Old
10-31-2012, 03:55 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Pierre LeBrun (1:13 PM)

You are correct. Under the last CBA, the players actually never did get 100 percent of their signed contracts over the 7 years. I think with escrow it averaged out to around 96 percent of their contracts for those 7 years. So yes, you are right.But it's become a touchy issue in this negotiation because players believe some owners rushed to sign a bunch of players before Sept. 15 in the hope of getting some of that money back in the form of major escrow. So the hope here for the players is to minimize the financial pain in the first couple years of next CBA and keep most of their signed contracts.In the end, I doubt they'll get 100 percent, but maybe 95 percent would do it ?
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun (1:21 PM)

My solution from the beginning: 53 percent to players in Year 1, 52 in year 2, and then get to 50-50 in year 3 or 4.I know for a fact both sides ultimately could live with that...
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun (1:24 PM)

All I can tell you is that I've thought all along there would be a CBA by Nov. 30 and puck drop by mid-December.I've said it since August and I'm sticking to it until I'm proven wrong
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat...-pierre-lebrun

57% to 50% results in 12% escrow deductions.

57% to 53% with a cap of 5% on escrow.

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10-31-2012, 05:20 PM
  #954
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Double post... Damn internet...


Last edited by Jackpot: 10-31-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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Old
10-31-2012, 05:20 PM
  #955
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Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA Told recent conversation between S. Fehr and Daly was "substantive," Enough to save WC? Highly doubtful but better than radio silence
Will this be a script like the NBA, like RB has mentioned before?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-refrains.html

Quote:
Does any of this sound familiar?

A commissioner saying there are "enormous consequences at play ... we think that we made very fair proposals."

Was that Gary Bettman two weeks ago? No, it was David Stern in October 2011.

"Our indication today to go to a 50-50 deal demonstrates even more potential movement on our part ... so we haven't made a secret of the fact that we'd very much like to make a deal."

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly? No, NBA deputy Commissioner Adam Silver.

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Old
10-31-2012, 09:08 PM
  #956
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"@pgshelly: Further update: Hearing that the NHLPA is seeking a way to resume formal #CBA negotiations with NHL, but nothing on docket yet. #Penguins"

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Old
10-31-2012, 09:44 PM
  #957
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-refrains.html

Quote:
While the players believe Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs is calling the shots, an educated guess at the final group includes but may not be limited to Anaheim, Columbus, Florida, the Islanders, Phoenix, St. Louis, Washington and Dallas -- enough to block any agreement from getting done (It's tough to lock it down because owners are forbidden to discuss this stuff. Attempts to talk to a couple were politely shot down).
Last week I would have said the Islanders are undoubtedly involved, but since the announcement of the Brooklyn move, I think Wang has likely backed off his demands.

But Jacobs, is there a cheaper owner in the league?

The other teams, as the guys from PPP said, you could contract all of those teams and the NHL wouldn't be that worse off. If these are the guys holding things up, can you imagine how they will be treated during owners meetings?

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10-31-2012, 10:26 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
The other teams, as the guys from PPP said, you could contract all of those teams and the NHL wouldn't be that worse off. If these are the guys holding things up, can you imagine how they will be treated during owners meetings?
It would be enormously worse off. You're talking about the #5, 8, 13, 16, and 21 TV markets. What exactly do you think would happen to the NBC TV contract without those teams?

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10-31-2012, 11:39 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
It would be enormously worse off. You're talking about the #5, 8, 13, 16, and 21 TV markets. What exactly do you think would happen to the NBC TV contract without those teams?
I doubt any of those markets sans Washington pulls much in the ratings. How often do you see an NBC feature game of St. Louis and Dallas?

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11-01-2012, 12:50 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
I doubt any of those markets sans Washington pulls much in the ratings. How often do you see an NBC feature game of St. Louis and Dallas?
The Blues pull in good ratings in St. Louis.

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Last night’s 6.3 surpassed by 13 percent the previous high for a regular season game on FOX Sports Midwest, a 5.6 for a win over San Jose on Nov. 4, 2010. Three of the top five highest-rated Blues games on FOX Sports Midwest have been played in 2012. FOX Sports Midwest has televised more than 700 games in its 17 years as the Blues TV home.

Blues games on FOX Sports Midwest are averaging a 3.4 household rating and 2011-12 is on pace to be the highest-rated Blues season ever on FOX Sports Midwest.
http://blues.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=622225

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11-01-2012, 09:44 AM
  #961
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...k_nhl_lockout/

Melnyk will feel the Million Dollar wrath of Buttman now?

Quote:
"Everybody can finger point all they want but at the end of the day I don't think anybody cares who's at fault, all they know is we're not playing hockey," Melnyk said.
Time for the sensible owners to step up?

Quote:
Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype The NHL is happy to pay Frank Luntz, but not a hardworking PR guy trying to keep Gary Bettman's dream alive in the Arizona desert. Unreal.
The Neocon Brotherhood runneth deep


Last edited by BBKers: 11-01-2012 at 10:17 AM.
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Old
11-01-2012, 09:45 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by CH2 View Post
I doubt any of those markets sans Washington pulls much in the ratings. How often do you see an NBC feature game of St. Louis and Dallas?
That actually doesn't matter. It's not really about ratings for individual games. Part of the calculation in the size of the deal is the NHL's presence in the major media markets. Cut out a quarter of the largest markets, and that's a huge hit. The real money is in the playoffs, not the weekly feature games. If it was in the feature games, they wouldn't wait to start until after the Winter Classic. Without a local team, you decrease the number of people who are simply hockey fans and will tune into the conference and Cup final games, whether their team happens to be involved or not.

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11-01-2012, 10:46 AM
  #963
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May finally get back to the table.

Quote:
Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
So...no #NHL-#NHLPA meetings scheduled however am told they are talking and meeting today/tomorrow possible.

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Old
11-01-2012, 12:21 PM
  #964
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Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHLPA conf call with the executive and negotiation committee on right now.

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Old
11-01-2012, 12:23 PM
  #965
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Daly and Fehr #2 supposedly had "substantive" talks a few days ago. Whatever that means. The PA exec committee and negotiating committee are having a conference call right now but its viewed as a routine call.

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Old
11-01-2012, 12:25 PM
  #966
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Get this ****ing **** done with already. These idiots look dumber and dumber every day this continues. Especially in the wake of Hurricane Sandy and the damage it has done. Puts lots of things into perspective.

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Old
11-01-2012, 01:32 PM
  #967
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Was told conference call is still going on... Oh to be a fly on the wall
https://twitter.com/JoshuaCooper/sta...55845464203264

The PA leadership spends the first part of the conference call telling the players they are getting screwed by management.

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11-01-2012, 02:27 PM
  #968
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had an interesting talk with Mathieu Schneider this morning. He used a term I hadn't heard, or at least hadn't noticed, before #NHLPA #NHL
Quote:
Schneider is Fehr's special assistant at #NHLPA. it was refreshing. what he said might - emphasize MIGHT - provide map to labour peace
Quote:
Story, of course, is upcoming. Lotsa research to do.
https://twitter.com/kevin_mcgran

You have to read the Toronto Star article to find out what Schneider said. McGran has to provide the link to find out what Schneider said.

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11-01-2012, 02:28 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/JoshuaCooper/sta...55845464203264

The PA leadership spends the first part of the conference call telling the players they are getting screwed by management.
They are. But so are all the Cattle on Every ranch...

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Old
11-01-2012, 02:45 PM
  #970
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The NHL was supposed to cancel the Winter Classic today. The NHL will lose $100,000 and they need to reimburse the University of Michigan of any costs they incur if the game is cancelled after November 2.

Quote:
No announcement coming on WInter Classic cancellation today. Confirmed.
https://twitter.com/SportsnetSpec/st...71396555104256

Quote:
Dollars and cents: The NHL contracted use of the Big House for $3 million. The first payment of $100,000 was delivered when they signed the contract on Feb. 8.

The rest of the payment plan called for $250,000 to be paid on Nov. 2; $1,000,000 on Dec. 7; $1,000,000 on Dec. 28; and $650,000 on Jan. 18, 2013.

Cancellation policy: Aside from the league owing more money on Friday, Nov. 2 is a benchmark for canceling the event and not owing the university any more money.

“If cancellation occurs prior to and including November 2, 2012, to retain the $100,000 initial consideration payment.

“If cancellation occurs on November 3, 2012 or later, to retain the initial consideration payment and obtain reimbursement for all documented and actual out-of-pocket expenses reasonably incurred by the University in connection with the cancelled Event prior to cancellation.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ntract-details

Penny wise and pound foolish. The entire rent is $3M. Michigan keeps $100,000 and they get out of pocket expenses. How much can those expenses be? The NHL needs to start planning for the game in November. The NHL doesn't want to spend that money with no CBA in place. Even if they get a new CBA in November and begin play 2 weeks later,the Winter Classic will still be cancelled. Maybe the NHL hasn't sold that many tickets. Its almost 120,000 tickets. They don't want to be embarrassed playing the game with tarps covering the unsold seats.

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11-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #971
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The players have missed 2 paychecks. They got their escrow checks from 2011-12 on Tuesday.

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Old
11-01-2012, 03:30 PM
  #972
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Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
Just wondering when the 20 owners that actually like our proposals are going to step up n use their voice

Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
Ya they're struggling alright http://www.therichest.org/sports/for...e-owners-2011/

Edit - Here's more...

Shawn ‏@NLRepublic
@brandonprust8 Everyone is aware ppl who own NHL franchises are rich man, that doesn't mean the team istelf isn't losing money ie Avs/Ducks

Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
@NLRepublic they take an escrow % off every check we get to make sure that no one is losing money.. No one is losing money. It's a joke

Does the NHLPA keep these guys informed about anything? No one's losing money? Really Brandon?


Last edited by NYRFAN218: 11-01-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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Old
11-01-2012, 03:42 PM
  #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
Just wondering when the 20 owners that actually like our proposals are going to step up n use their voice

Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
Ya they're struggling alright http://www.therichest.org/sports/for...e-owners-2011/

Edit - Here's more...

Shawn ‏@NLRepublic
@brandonprust8 Everyone is aware ppl who own NHL franchises are rich man, that doesn't mean the team istelf isn't losing money ie Avs/Ducks

Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
@NLRepublic they take an escrow % off every check we get to make sure that no one is losing money.. No one is losing money. It's a joke

Does the NHLPA keep these guys informed about anything? No one's losing money? Really Brandon?
Yeah, honestly shut up Brandon Prust.

Is there any NHL player who isn't both an established labor lawyer, and a respected economist?

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Old
11-01-2012, 04:10 PM
  #974
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I heard from two players who were on the call. Obviously they requested anonymity, but here was their recap of the call:

Player 1 said the call reaffirmed the union's willingness to stick together and hang tough, feeling that NHL is trying to wait and see if players crack, etc.

Player 2 said that the overwhelming feeling on the call was that players want NHLPA leadership back in the bargaining room with the NHL to explore what kind of flexibility from the league’s part there exists on key issues.

It was expected NHLPA No. 2 man Steve Fehr would reach out to NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly sometime Thursday to see if they could agree on perhaps resuming/scheduling bargaining talks.

We shall see.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ht-in-just-yet

LeBrun also spoke with mediator George Cohen who said he has spoken with both sides. Daly said the mediator won't be brought in now. Maybe in the future.

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11-01-2012, 04:17 PM
  #975
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Prust is an idiot. He went to twitter to complain about the Rangers offer. He started tweeting/bad mouthing Boomer Esiason over Boomer taking a poke at him on twitter over leaving the Rangers. It was a joke. Relax. I saw his tweet about the owners.

https://twitter.com/BrandonPrust8/st...60850113056769

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