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The Luongo Thread: Another Brick in the Wall Edition

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11-22-2012, 12:55 AM
  #1
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The Luongo Thread: Another Brick in the Wall Edition

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11-22-2012, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck
Did I just see Kadri suggested to play on the Canucks' second line? He can't even hold a spot for large portions with the Leafs. Any deal with Kadri being a centerpiece is a huge failure as a return. Kulemin isn't even that physical, unless you think 97 soft hits make a difference throughout the course of a Regular Season.

Kadri is a tweener as well as unproven. Besides Kassian would play on the second line long before Kadri would even get a sniff. Wouldn't even be surprised to see Kadri not make the Canucks and spend the season with the Wolves because I don't see him on the third line anytime soon either if we got him.

Kulemin is a tweener, and inconsistent. If I wanted one of those, I'd just look over at Raymond. With Higgins, Hansen, Booth, Kassian, Raymond, and Malhotra, I fail to see how Kulemin is useful.

Really not sure what to think about the Lupul deal.
As I said, I'd prefer the Lupul deal(gives us a top-6 winger, RD prospect, and a chance to replenish our prospect pool in the upcoming draft), and although neither are ideal, it's unlikely we'd get any better deals from other teams.(except maybe something around Hemsky, but I think he and Lupul are a wash)

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11-22-2012, 01:29 AM
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Tired of all the Leaf proposal,s.Period.Quit offering us table scraps for Luongo,go find your goalie some where else.

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11-22-2012, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MAGICMAN1963 View Post
Tired of all the Leaf proposal,s.Period.Quit offering us table scraps for Luongo,go find your goalie some where else.
Tired of horrible proposals? Stop going into Luongo threads.
It's been the same crap since the draft (or whenever all the Luongo trade talk started), nothing will change that.

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11-22-2012, 01:44 AM
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Alright, Luongo for Malkin. Who's going to tell us otherwise, right? I doubt any Pens fan stop by to argue.

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11-22-2012, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Tired of horrible proposals? Stop going into Luongo threads.
It's been the same crap since the draft (or whenever all the Luongo trade talk started), nothing will change that.
unless the lockout ends

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11-22-2012, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
As I said, I'd prefer the Lupul deal(gives us a top-6 winger, RD prospect, and a chance to replenish our prospect pool in the upcoming draft), and although neither are ideal, it's unlikely we'd get any better deals from other teams.(except maybe something around Hemsky, but I think he and Lupul are a wash)
Top 6 winger coming off one good year, an average prospect, and a pick that could very well be top 5 protected. Meh.

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11-22-2012, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Alright, Luongo for Malkin. Who's going to tell us otherwise, right? I doubt any Pens fan stop by to argue.
You would have to convince me... alright I am in! Good job.

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11-22-2012, 02:57 AM
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I still think Florida is our best option, especially with the young talent in Versteeg and Kulikov there.

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11-22-2012, 03:59 AM
  #10
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Eat your meat.

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11-22-2012, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
I still think Florida is our best option, especially with the young talent in Versteeg and Kulikov there.
Can't speak for the GM, but the fans are stingy as ****. Unreasonable too. The only time Matthias has ever been better than Malhotra circa 10-11

Also FLOYD! **** yeah! Now we are getting somewhere!


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11-22-2012, 04:22 AM
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I still think Florida is our best option, especially with the young talent in Versteeg and Kulikov there.
I also think Florida has better pieces but not those two guys. Leafs have nothing to offer except a couple of dmen that they don't want to move. A possible 3 way deal with Lui going to Florida and Theodore going to the Leafs with their "Real Deal" goalies of the future having time to develop behind him. Maybe we can unload Ballard in a deal like this and bring in a more reliable one, along with another piece or two. I can't see Burke being involved in a deal like this where he isn't the one getting Luongo though, the backlash may be the final nail in his coffin if they miss the playoffs if we ever do play hockey again.

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11-22-2012, 05:06 AM
  #13
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Does anybody here remember vera lynn?

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11-22-2012, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MAGICMAN1963 View Post
Tired of all the Leaf proposal,s.Period.Quit offering us table scraps for Luongo,go find your goalie some where else.
Deal.

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11-22-2012, 07:04 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
I still think Florida is our best option, especially with the young talent in Versteeg and Kulikov there.
Sure...a team that doesn't need a goalie...a team that isn't deep on offense is going to give you their best offensive player for...a goalie.

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11-22-2012, 08:07 AM
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Cont. VKW: Because "value" or "weight" is an abstract notion. Filling needs is what makes one's team more competitive(either in the short term or long term, depending on the team's goal).


Except that Lupul doesn't fit a need either. You are advocating a plan of action that Lupul does not fulfill. He's not a RW. He's also not a heavy goalscorer. He's pretty much another top6 option, that's it. In fact, I went over comparing Lupul to Higgins in the last thread, give it a read.



_Any_ deal with TO will be about value and not need. Both are abstract notions with regards to the assets TO provides.




Quote:
Well, I suppose it's simply semantics, but by your logic the Leafs don't have a hole at number 1 C, as the player there isn't absent, they have Bozak.(and if you want to use Kassian to fill the hole, they have Kadri). As a cup contender we should have higher standards on what our forward group should look like.


Apples to oranges (this seems to be a running theme in your posts). You are proposing a replacement for Bozak, while I'm suggesting a replacement for Lupul with Higgins, Hansen, Raymond or Kassian. Which team is more capable of doing that in house? For VAN, they have 3 top 6 forwards _right_now_ vying for that 2nd line RW spot, and Kassian (wildcard). For TO, they have to find a C better than Grabovski to unseat Bozak = extremely difficult to do.



Again, take a look at my Higgins vs. Lupul comparison.





Quote:
Sorry, if I wasn't more clear, I was responding to your direct question of if Bozak/Macarthur + Kadri is better than Lupul, which is a no imo. Kulemin + Kadri I would prefer to Lupul, but Lupul + Blacker I would prefer to that.


So what you are saying is that Lupul is not imperative to acquire.


Also, the fact that you admitted Kulemin + Kadri is better than Lupul only confirms that you also employ that abstract notion "value" when looking at deals. Funny how that works.




Quote:
Lupul's track record is that he produced more getting top line minutes as a LW than playing behind Perry and Selanne as a RW. I think that his jump in production is far more related to his increased amount of quality ice time as opposed to switching sides.


It's _both_, and more! It's top line ice, it's playing with Kessel, it's moving wings, it's top PP time, and more... You're saying it can't be that he switched wings, which is just completely false. He had his best year at LW. You can't discount it as having helped him. You're saying it's all these things _except_ switching wings, which you regard as irrelevant, which I think is out to lunch.



How can you discount it? Again, his _best_ season came on that wing. Nothing you say changes that fact. This is evidence, yours is supposition. If you want to prove your case, show me a large sample (a season's worth) where he's _known_ to be on the RW and has produced at a PPG clip? Until then, you've got nothing.



Quote:
Also, just because it requires more skill to play the offwing doesn't mean skilled players automatically do better there.

And the biggest point for me, which you've never yet addressed, is even if Kadri turns out to be the perfect RWer, he wouldn't be hitting his prime until half our core is out of their primes.



Odds are skill players do better offensively on their off-wing, that's my only contention with Kadri. It's not a guarantee. Even in juniour, he _looked_ just as dangerous on his off wing. LL also confirms that he wants to see Kadri on the right... There's something to draw on there. A positive, instead of a negative. Likewise, you can draw on Lupul's shift to the LW producing his best season being a positive, not a negative or even status quo.




Actually I did address your point about Kadri being younger and Lupul being in his prime. Basically, Lupul is too helter skelter to bank on, even in his prime. He's worn out his welcome in PHI, EDM and ANA, so how can this team expect a consistent performance? Do they have a Kessel to carry him? Thus, when faced with those question marks, and other "limiting" factors here (like playing on the 2nd PP unit), is a 0.5 PPG projection (based on Kadri's small NHL sample) all that different from Lupul's 0.62 PPG career avg this coming year? Note: This assumes Lupul is the picture of health and plays 82 games... yeah I know.



In other words, if Lupul comes here and produces even at his career PPG average, assuming excellent health, he's a 51 point player. Now factor in more focus on defense, 2nd unit PP time, 2nd line ice, a worse offensive counter-part in Kesler, and his regular health issues - Do you see that avg staying the same? If not, then why not bump up a Higgins or a Hansen that gets close to his PPG avg _and_ they do everything else away from the puck. Meaning, he would essentially get lost in the shuffle here if he's not consistent offensively = good luck.


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11-22-2012, 08:55 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Except that Lupul doesn't fit a need either. You are advocating a plan of action that Lupul does not fulfill. He's not a RW. He's also not a heavy goalscorer. He's pretty much another top6 option, that's it. In fact, I went over comparing Lupul to Higgins in the last thread, give it a read.
He's more of a RW than Kadri is, regardless of your opinion on how Kadri is somehow better there. Plus we've all been saying we need a playmaker for the 2nd line who might be able to finally make some chemistry with Kesler and Booth.

Quote:
_Any_ deal with TO will be about value and not need. Both are abstract notions with regards to the assets TO provides.
Need is not an abstract notion. We've scored 14 goals in our last 12 playoff games. That is clearly representitive of our lack of scoring, which needs to be addressed now.




Quote:
Apples to oranges (this seems to be a running theme in your posts). You are proposing a replacement for Bozak, while I'm suggesting a replacement for Lupul with Higgins, Hansen, Raymond or Kassian. Which team is more capable of doing that in house? For VAN, they have 3 top 6 forwards _right_now_ vying for that 2nd line RW spot, and Kassian (wildcard). For TO, they have to find a C better than Grabovski to unseat Bozak = extremely difficult to do.
We have three tweeners and a rookie who might be able to fit there, but as a cup contender we should have higher standards as to who sits in our top-6. Higgins has nowhere near the talent as Lupul has.


Quote:
So what you are saying is that Lupul is not imperative to acquire.


Also, the fact that you admitted Kulemin + Kadri is better than Lupul only confirms that you also employ that abstract notion "value" when looking at deals. Funny how that works.
I feel that the offense provided by Kadri + Kulemin combined could supercede that of Lupul's as early as this year. I don't see what the problem is with that.



Quote:
It's _both_, and more! It's top line ice, it's playing with Kessel, it's moving wings, it's top PP time, and more... You're saying it can't be that he switched wings, which is just completely false. He had his best year at LW. You can't discount it as having helped him. You're saying it's all these things _except_ switching wings, which you regard as irrelevant, which I think is out to lunch.


How can you discount it? Again, his _best_ season came on that wing. Nothing you say changes that fact. This is evidence, yours is supposition. If you want to prove your case, show me a large sample (a season's worth) where he's _known_ to be on the RW and has produced at a PPG clip? Until then, you've got nothing.
Lupul has never had quality ice-time/linemates as a RW in Anaheim. He did as a LW in Toronto. Almost any player would see their point totals increase. Why do you assume it increased solely because he moved to LW? Why do you assume that has anything to do with why it increased? Maybe if he had played RW with top-6 minutes he would have done even better? There's absolutely no reason to say Kadri will do any better than Lupul at RW.



Quote:
Odds are skill players do better offensively on their off-wing, that's my only contention with Kadri. It's not a guarantee. Even in juniour, he _looked_ just as dangerous on his off wing. LL also confirms that he wants to see Kadri on the right... There's something to draw on there. A positive, instead of a negative. Likewise, you can draw on Lupul's shift to the LW producing his best season being a positive, not a negative or even status quo.
Yeah, a highlight clip of Lupul in junior also showed him doing well on the right. It's not like Kadri has any full seasons played at RW that show he's done better there than at LW. Anything you say on that is simply speculation, no different then me speculating that Lupul's transition from RW to LW had far less to do with his breakout season than finally getting quality linemates and icetime. And I would want to put him on the 1st PP unit with the Sedins as well, and let Kesler anchor the 2nd PP unit anyways.


Quote:
Actually I did address your point about Kadri being younger and Lupul being in his prime. Basically, Lupul is too helter skelter to bank on, even in his prime. He's worn out his welcome in PHI, EDM and ANA, so how can this team expect a consistent performance? Do they have a Kessel to carry him? Thus, when faced with those question marks, and other "limiting" factors here (like playing on the 2nd PP unit), is a 0.5 PPG projection (based on Kadri's small NHL sample) all that different from Lupul's 0.62 PPG career avg this coming year? Note: This assumes Lupul is the picture of health and plays 82 games... yeah I know.



In other words, if Lupul comes here and produces even at his career PPG average, assuming excellent health, he's a 51 point player. Now factor in more focus on defense, 2nd unit PP time, 2nd line ice, a worse offensive counter-part in Kesler, and his regular health issues - Do you see that avg staying the same? If not, then why not bump up a Higgins or a Hansen that gets close to his PPG avg _and_ they do everything else away from the puck. Meaning, he would essentially get lost in the shuffle here if he's not consistent offensively = good luck.
Except his career average includes all the time he's been stuck in a bottom-6 role, so 51 points as a third liner is actually pretty impressive. As I've said numerous times, his being upped to the seeing quality ice-time was a lot more of a reason for his breakout season. Anyone who's watched him can tell he's more skilled than Hansen or Higgins. And why do you assume his linemates in Vancouver would be worse than in Toronto. Kesler and Booth are not scrubs, and I'd put him on the first PP unit with the Sedins(unless you think it's silly to compare the Sedins to Bozak-Kessel as well).

What it boils down to is if you think that Lupul is legitimate top line talent or not. I think he is. You can assume he'll end up being injured and be buried behind Higgins on the depth chart, but that's ridiculous. He's certainly more of a lock for our roster than Kadri.

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11-22-2012, 10:24 AM
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Off topic, i have a whole new respect for Canuck's fans dedication.

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11-22-2012, 10:25 AM
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A deal with Florida is so much easier and a better fit for both teams. We don't necessarily need any immediate help from this deal. We need to compensate for years of success by adding futures.

We can even add Raymond to sweeten the deal and add to Florida's offensive depth. I don't care what anyone says, he would be a useful player to them. Florida has to be willing to let go of more than a B grade prospect (not talking about HF boards ratings). That is what would hold up any deal. Who knows what has been going on the last 3 months or the next 3 will hold for any number of reasons.

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11-22-2012, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
He's more of a RW than Kadri is, regardless of your opinion on how Kadri is somehow better there. Plus we've all been saying we need a playmaker for the 2nd line who might be able to finally make some chemistry with Kesler and Booth.


Putting words in my mouth (again): I never said Kadri would be "better" on RW in the NHL than Lupul. I'm contending Kadri wouldn't (likely) lose anything switching wings while Lupul would. It's based on his skillset and left-shot, and Lupul's history.



Kadri doesn't _seem_ to lose anything on either wing, while Lupul does (see last year's stats). His most recent stats show he's better on LW. If he can be just as good on the right, I'm pretty sure you can dig up the data of when he played RW in EDM and PHI (since ANA seems to be a sticking point due Perry) and gather a sample (80+ games) to prove your case (show me he's PPG in that role). Go for it... (My sample is this past season btw)




Quote:
Need is not an abstract notion. We've scored 14 goals in our last 12 playoff games. That is clearly representitive of our lack of scoring, which needs to be addressed now.


Need _can_ be abstract. What you are doing here is identifying a problem and subjectively ascertaining what you _need_ to fix it. You think we need Lupul. I disagree. Clearly, our perceptions don't align -- but how can that be if Need is objective? You get what I'm saying? The fact that we disagree means that need is not objective in this case. You are wrong.



You have showed that you recognize value, another abstract concept, even in a hypothetical swap of Kadri + Kulemin vs. Lupul. You told me which you weighted more/less. Meaning, an evaluation was done and an opinion given. Why did you do that if you don't believe "value" has relevance in trade talk? Understand? So when I bring up value as a point for accepting Kadri, you should not dismiss it.




Quote:
We have three tweeners and a rookie who might be able to fit there, but as a cup contender we should have higher standards as to who sits in our top-6. Higgins has nowhere near the talent as Lupul has.


Huh? We have three top6 forwards to put there. Players that have produced at a top6 rate, even as recently as last year. That's not a hole. Period. You can upgrade the position, but it isn't a hole. I mean, how many NHL teams have depth enough to be able to claim that? Your expectations are insanely high. Not to mention that placing those expectations on Lupul is highly dubious.



No matter what you say, Lupul produced at his best clip on the LW in TO. I will keep repeating this fact.



So to re-iterate: 51 point Lupul with more limitations here vs. 43 point Higgins. Is 8 points worth the difference of everything else Higgins does? If it's equal, now start applying the new limitations to Lupul in this new environment and it gets worse... Do you contend any of this on a stats based level? Again, note: I'm being kind by not projecting games played, giving Lupul 82, and getting the same ice time here that he has averaged over his career (even though I know it's not likely).



Quote:
I feel that the offense provided by Kadri + Kulemin combined could supercede that of Lupul's as early as this year. I don't see what the problem is with that.


Question: What do you project Kadri's offense to be in his first season and why?



Quote:
Lupul has never had quality ice-time/linemates as a RW in Anaheim. He did as a LW in Toronto. Almost any player would see their point totals increase. Why do you assume it increased solely because he moved to LW? Why do you assume that has anything to do with why it increased? Maybe if he had played RW with top-6 minutes he would have done even better? There's absolutely no reason to say Kadri will do any better than Lupul at RW.


If Lupul shifting wings is irrelevant, show me it is by providing the sample I requested above.



Quote:
Yeah, a highlight clip of Lupul in junior also showed him doing well on the right. It's not like Kadri has any full seasons played at RW that show he's done better there than at LW. Anything you say on that is simply speculation, no different then me speculating that Lupul's transition from RW to LW had far less to do with his breakout season than finally getting quality linemates and icetime. And I would want to put him on the 1st PP unit with the Sedins as well, and let Kesler anchor the 2nd PP unit anyways.


So the point of using an exception to prove the rule completely went over your head. Gotcha. This is logic 101 VKW... You said Kadri never played RW in his life, I _proved_ otherwise, you admitted you were wrong. Essentially, I used the exception to _disprove_ the rule/perception. Then, you used select YT clips to "prove" Lupul is just as good at RW as he is at LW... Again, what is that in the face of his latest career season at LW, as a PPG player? Nothing. It is instead the exception to _prove_ the rule. Which is the opposite of what I did. Tell me you understand this and restore my faith in humanity.



Quote:
Except his career average includes all the time he's been stuck in a bottom-6 role, so 51 points as a third liner is actually pretty impressive. As I've said numerous times, his being upped to the seeing quality ice-time was a lot more of a reason for his breakout season. Anyone who's watched him can tell he's more skilled than Hansen or Higgins. And why do you assume his linemates in Vancouver would be worse than in Toronto. Kesler and Booth are not scrubs, and I'd put him on the first PP unit with the Sedins(unless you think it's silly to compare the Sedins to Bozak-Kessel as well).

What it boils down to is if you think that Lupul is legitimate top line talent or not. I think he is. You can assume he'll end up being injured and be buried behind Higgins on the depth chart, but that's ridiculous. He's certainly more of a lock for our roster than Kadri.


It's ridiculous to classify an injury prone player as injury prone...





Question: If you view Lupul as a legit 1st line talent, why would you value Kadri (prospect) + Kulemin (2nd/3rd line tweener) over him? Hmmmm?


Also, how does a legit top line talent get laughed off 3 teams by age 27, the last one trading him as a salary dump?


Lastly, forget Booth. Kesler is the best player on the 2nd line, and Lupul would be his linemate, and he (Kesler) is not as good as Kessel offensively.

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11-22-2012, 10:35 AM
  #21
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A deal with Florida is so much easier and a better fit for both teams. We don't necessarily need any immediate help from this deal. We need to compensate for years of success by adding futures.

We can even add Raymond to sweeten the deal and add to Florida's offensive depth. I don't care what anyone says, he would be a useful player to them. Florida has to be willing to let go of more than a B grade prospect (not talking about HF boards ratings). That is what would hold up any deal. Who knows what has been going on the last 3 months or the next 3 will hold for any number of reasons.
I'm not advocating a TO only deal here, in fact, i've come to the beleaf that it would be impossible. BUT, the only team a FLA/VAN trade makes sense for is VAN/Luongo. Lu would be an upgrade for sure, but FLA were a playoff team with their goalies. They are also a team that isn't flushed with cash so Luongo's higher salary than cap deal isn't good for them. They could use Raymond, but i don't see them giving a sweetheart deal to obtain a player they don't really need (Luongo). Then, when names like Bjugstad,Gudbranson or Kulikov come up....that kills it further.

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11-22-2012, 10:39 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
He's more of a RW than Kadri is, regardless of your opinion on how Kadri is somehow better there. Plus we've all been saying we need a playmaker for the 2nd line who might be able to finally make some chemistry with Kesler and Booth.



Need is not an abstract notion. We've scored 14 goals in our last 12 playoff games. That is clearly representitive of our lack of scoring, which needs to be addressed now.






We have three tweeners and a rookie who might be able to fit there, but as a cup contender we should have higher standards as to who sits in our top-6. Higgins has nowhere near the talent as Lupul has.




I feel that the offense provided by Kadri + Kulemin combined could supercede that of Lupul's as early as this year. I don't see what the problem is with that.





Lupul has never had quality ice-time/linemates as a RW in Anaheim. He did as a LW in Toronto. Almost any player would see their point totals increase. Why do you assume it increased solely because he moved to LW? Why do you assume that has anything to do with why it increased? Maybe if he had played RW with top-6 minutes he would have done even better? There's absolutely no reason to say Kadri will do any better than Lupul at RW.





Yeah, a highlight clip of Lupul in junior also showed him doing well on the right. It's not like Kadri has any full seasons played at RW that show he's done better there than at LW. Anything you say on that is simply speculation, no different then me speculating that Lupul's transition from RW to LW had far less to do with his breakout season than finally getting quality linemates and icetime. And I would want to put him on the 1st PP unit with the Sedins as well, and let Kesler anchor the 2nd PP unit anyways.




Except his career average includes all the time he's been stuck in a bottom-6 role, so 51 points as a third liner is actually pretty impressive. As I've said numerous times, his being upped to the seeing quality ice-time was a lot more of a reason for his breakout season. Anyone who's watched him can tell he's more skilled than Hansen or Higgins. And why do you assume his linemates in Vancouver would be worse than in Toronto. Kesler and Booth are not scrubs, and I'd put him on the first PP unit with the Sedins(unless you think it's silly to compare the Sedins to Bozak-Kessel as well).

What it boils down to is if you think that Lupul is legitimate top line talent or not. I think he is. You can assume he'll end up being injured and be buried behind Higgins on the depth chart, but that's ridiculous. He's certainly more of a lock for our roster than Kadri.
Alright...Bleach and VKW...listen up. Magicman 1963, Vancouver-2010 and Y2K have all said a deal with TO is an absolute no go (we literally have nothing in our organization that they feel warrants Luongo). So, save your friendship guys, move on to FLA...that is were the deal is.

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11-22-2012, 10:40 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I'm not advocating a TO only deal here, in fact, i've come to the beleaf that it would be impossible. BUT, the only team a FLA/VAN trade makes sense for is VAN/Luongo. Lu would be an upgrade for sure, but FLA were a playoff team with their goalies. They are also a team that isn't flushed with cash so Luongo's higher salary than cap deal isn't good for them. They could use Raymond, but i don't see them giving a sweetheart deal to obtain a player they don't really need (Luongo). Then, when names like Bjugstad,Gudbranson or Kulikov come up....that kills it further.



- Is FLA a playoff team going forward?


- I think you are incorrect about FLA's money situation. Opendoor posted about FLA's arena deal and what FLA is collecting outside their HRR -- It's significant. Take a look at his post.


- Tallon got the OK to accept the contract so point is moot.


- Need will be apparent as the season progresses, if there is one.





Also, from the last thread response to you: I was talking about the 2013 1st rnder, not the 2012 5th overall pick.

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11-22-2012, 10:44 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Alright...Bleach and VKW...listen up. Magicman 1963, Vancouver-2010 and Y2K have all said a deal with TO is an absolute no go (we literally have nothing in our organization that they feel warrants Luongo). So, save your friendship guys, move on to FLA...that is were the deal is.


Nothing has changed. TO was, and remains, very much on the radar. Fan reaction is meaningless in the face of those reports.

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11-22-2012, 10:45 AM
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Saying a team doesn't need a much better goalie than they have is a strange concept to me. Especially when we're talking about zero cup rings.

I'm sorry to say, but you have seemed to have open yourself up for it, that I know making the playoffs seems like a big deal to a Leafs fan but Florida is not much closer to a cup that way.

Florida can afford to add pieces now that keep them competitive for years with lots of youth in the system. They can afford to trade their 3rd or 4th best young player and still do that.

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