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CBA Talk II: Shut up and give me YOUR money!

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Old
11-24-2012, 01:07 PM
  #776
Scurr
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That'd be why. The general ratings aren't high enough to warrant the cash. Not going to happen any time soon, lockouts or not, the NHL is just a niche sport in the US and is never going to be loved like the big 3. However game has done a great job growing consider it isn't a beloved sport where Americans will tune in to watch a team they don't care about play another team they don't care about.
It doesn't have to be that way, hockey can catch on in big the states. It's already present in a significant way in the NCAA and big in a couple states. The NHL needs a plan to make it happen.

The fact the NHL doesn't have a fantasy game is beyond belief. Fantasy football is a huge reason for the NFL's success. Giving people a reason to watch teams they are not otherwise invested in is how you get those huge T.V. numbers. The NHL has a opportunity to be innovative and create something unique and exciting, instead they've just ignored it all together.

It also helps to make the game as exciting as possible. The NFL has moved out of the dark ages and detached itself from "traditionalist" thinking to make the game more entertaining. Sure, some fans really miss the old defensive battles but the majority want to see the stars shine, so that's what the NFL gives them. The NHL does the opposite, gears the play to the lowest common denominator and lets the stars fade into the pack.

Throwing teams in non-traditional markets can work imo. The game needs to be more attractive, the teams need to be competitive and the NHL needs to invest big in getting people playing the game in those markets. They need to invest in those markets, not just throw teams in them.

Kids in the states love hockey and are getting good at it. We need more stars from the states, more locals for Americans to cheer for. They like stuff they're good at.

Hockey is great. It doesn't work in the states because the NHL sucks.

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11-24-2012, 01:25 PM
  #777
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It doesn't have to be that way, hockey can catch on in big the states. It's already present in a significant way in the NCAA and big in a couple states. The NHL needs a plan to make it happen.

The fact the NHL doesn't have a fantasy game is beyond belief. Fantasy football is a huge reason for the NFL's success. Giving people a reason to watch teams they are not otherwise invested in is how you get those huge T.V. numbers. The NHL has a opportunity to be innovative and create something unique and exciting, instead they've just ignored it all together.

It also helps to make the game as exciting as possible. The NFL has moved out of the dark ages and detached itself from "traditionalist" thinking to make the game more entertaining. Sure, some fans really miss the old defensive battles but the majority want to see the stars shine, so that's what the NFL gives them. The NHL does the opposite, gears the play to the lowest common denominator and lets the stars fade into the pack.

Throwing teams in non-traditional markets can work imo. The game needs to be more attractive, the teams need to be competitive and the NHL needs to invest big in getting people playing the game in those markets. They need to invest in those markets, not just throw teams in them.

Kids in the states love hockey and are getting good at it. We need more stars from the states, more locals for Americans to cheer for. They like stuff they're good at.

Hockey is great. It doesn't work in the states because the NHL sucks.
Bettman's southern strategy is the Fail.

As you say, there are plenty of markets that have legitimate and historical interests in hockey.

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11-24-2012, 05:49 PM
  #778
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon...ttman/1724373/

lol Bolland..

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11-24-2012, 07:15 PM
  #779
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Well Bolland was always a schmuck.

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Old
11-24-2012, 08:13 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
Bettman's southern strategy is the Fail.

As you say, there are plenty of markets that have legitimate and historical interests in hockey.
Atlanta failed

Nashville has been good (Great fans and the game has been grown from ground up). The Same goes for Carolina (Has great fans and been good for NHL)

Bettman had no role in Fla/TB/Dal being in markets they are

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11-24-2012, 08:25 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Atlanta failed

Nashville has been good (Great fans and the game has been grown from ground up). The Same goes for Carolina (Has great fans and been good for NHL)

Bettman had no role in Fla/TB/Dal being in markets they are
Nashville and Carolina have been failures. Bottom third in attendance and bottom half in ticket prices. Especially Carolina which won a cup. These markets are a joke.

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Old
11-26-2012, 02:16 PM
  #782
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Federal mediator now involved in NHL/NHLPA labor talks. More to come.
Good news.

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Old
11-26-2012, 02:23 PM
  #783
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Good news.
Wow - that took me completely by surprise. Good news indeed.

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Old
11-26-2012, 02:25 PM
  #784
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Wow - that took me completely by surprise. Good news indeed.
Nothing the mediator says is binding, but hopefully they listen to the impartial 3rd party in the room now. It certianly can't hurt, though.

Next meetings should be Wednesday according to Kypreos.

PA requested the mediator and the NHL agreed to it.

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Old
11-26-2012, 02:42 PM
  #785
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Funny news for those not on twitter:

Guy Serota, one of the mediators on the NHL/NHLPA case, had a twitter account. On his timeline were masturbation jokes and very large love of Sarah Silverman. Hockey fans began dissecting his timeline and then 15 minutes later he shut down his twitter account.

Lesson learned? Hockey fans are ANIMALS. Or we are so bored that we will dissect the crap out of any new hockey news.

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11-26-2012, 02:45 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
Funny news for those not on twitter:

Guy Serota, one of the mediators on the NHL/NHLPA case, had a twitter account. On his timeline were masturbation jokes and very large love of Sarah Silverman. Hockey fans began dissecting his timeline and then 15 minutes later he shut down his twitter account.

Lesson learned? Hockey fans are ANIMALS. Or we are so bored that we will dissect the crap out of any new hockey news.


I saw that too.

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Old
11-26-2012, 03:18 PM
  #787
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Awesome.

I was hoping they would make this move being so close. I think this will end the lockout.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:23 PM
  #788
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mediation will be a waste of time just like in 2004/2005.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:25 PM
  #789
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mediation will be a waste of time just like in 2004/2005.
I'm not entirely convinced of that. It might be, but there are a couple big differences.

In 04/05 the mediator was brought in 3 days before the season was cancelled...In February. It was essentially a lost cause by then anyway.

In 04/05 there was the major philosophical difference between the sides in the form of the salary cap. The PA hadn't accepted the cap then, and the owners needed it. There's no philosophical gap this time, it's all about numbers.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:33 PM
  #790
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I'm not entirely convinced of that. It might be, but there are a couple big differences.

In 04/05 the mediator was brought in 3 days before the season was cancelled...In February. It was essentially a lost cause by then anyway.

In 04/05 there was the major philosophical difference between the sides in the form of the salary cap. The PA hadn't accepted the cap then, and the owners needed it. There's no philosophical gap this time, it's all about numbers.
i do agree about the lost cause, but right now they can't even agree on linkage. the closest thing the PA got to was a hybrid proposal. not to mention there is a big gulf between the two on the make whole issue. i think this whole thing is here just to bide time until the BOG meetings on dec. 5, after that i think we'll know the answer to as if we're having a season or not.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:40 PM
  #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
Funny news for those not on twitter:

Guy Serota, one of the mediators on the NHL/NHLPA case, had a twitter account. On his timeline were masturbation jokes and very large love of Sarah Silverman. Hockey fans began dissecting his timeline and then 15 minutes later he shut down his twitter account.

Lesson learned? Hockey fans are ANIMALS. Or we are so bored that we will dissect the crap out of any new hockey news.
Awesome. So when one party is upset with the mediators decision they will attempt to have it disregarded due to questions surrounding the mediators credibility.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:56 PM
  #792
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Guy Serota now won't be involved. He's been removed from the mediation committee.

FMCS doesn't **** around.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:00 PM
  #793
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Guy Serota now won't be involved. He's been removed from the mediation committee.

FMCS doesn't **** around.
That was fast.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:42 PM
  #794
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I imagine the NHL already knows, roughly, where the middle-ground is... The issue isn't either side not seeing the middle ground, IMO... The issue, as I understand it (albeit, haven't been following the details all that closely) is that the NHL isn't all that interested in giving up too much off of what they are proposing (not judging, this is for whatever reason)... Basically, eat what we made for dinner, players... or, don't eat at our table. Maybe the NHL is getting some more internal pressure to get a deal done, and can actually afford to give up more than what they're proposing? To prepare something better than scrambled eggs and toast? Having a mediator would be a way for the NHL to "negotiate" with what the mediator proposes... I assume the mediator will be providing a formal proposal (or, at least, formally proposing a deal that he believes is fair for both sides)... The players, I don't think, would go too far off what the independent 3rd party says the players should do or give to end the labour dispute... So, I assume that the mediator's proposal will basically act like a player's proposal... Essentially, it's a way for the NHL to get a formal, detailed, player proposal... Even if the players "lose", they "win"... So, if an independent 3rd party is saying this is fair, I imagine that many in the NHLPA will figure it must be fair, or fair enough...

Once recommendations announced, NHL says mediator doesn't understand the NHL economic particulars... albeit, the mediator gets it more than the NHLPA does (by nature of what the mediator is trying to achieve, the mediator will propose something better than seen or proposed to date from the NHLPA)... The mediator, after all, feels that his recommendation is the compromise needed on both sides to get a deal reached...

So, somewhere between the NHL's latest offer and the mediator's middle ground, NHL makes a final, take it or leave it offer... NHLPA probably won't be the ones to decide no hockey this year, so, if not accepted outright, return offer somewhere around the mediator's recommendation... Somewhere between NHL proposal and NHLPA proposal, agreement! I don't think the players would screw around a lost season, for the difference between what the NHL proposes in a final offer, and what the mediator recommends...

I can see the players giving up more than "fair", for hockey to be played this year...

Therefore, I think hockey this year

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Old
11-26-2012, 09:22 PM
  #795
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For 20 of the teams, not playing doesn't cost them very much. For the players, virtually all of them are making either nothing, or a greatly reduced paycheck.

And it tells youone thing. These guys are wiling to work for 20-30% of what they make in the NHL.

I know of no one who would take a 70-80% pay cut to ry and make a point. We all know they are overpaid.

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Old
11-26-2012, 09:26 PM
  #796
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Haven't posted in a while... Can't believe the lockout is still ongoing... Usually by this time I would already be making Fire Vigneault threads.

Hopefully the mediator can get things going, I miss my hockey.

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Old
11-26-2012, 09:50 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
For 20 of the teams, not playing doesn't cost them very much. For the players, virtually all of them are making either nothing, or a greatly reduced paycheck.

And it tells youone thing. These guys are wiling to work for 20-30% of what they make in the NHL.

I know of no one who would take a 70-80% pay cut to ry and make a point. We all know they are overpaid.
The teams that have been losing money are able to use the loss to help with write-offs in their other non-hockey businesses. The teams that are making money, are losing millions by not playing. In Europe, clubs breaking even or making money is a foreign concept. Clubs are merely playthings for billionaires.

The players are well compensated, but look at what they have to go through. Intensive training, an extremely high risk of injuries that could shorten their career or negatively affect their quality of life, a violent workplace, short careers even if they avoid serious injury, in some markets celebrity recognition with the cons that come with that. They make a lot of money, but are worth it.

The billionaire owners are just sitting back in their luxury boxes and raking in profit with managed risk. They can keep owning their team for the rest of their lives, they don't have to retire in their late 30's like most hockey players. They can rake in that 50% HRR for decades.

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Old
11-26-2012, 10:43 PM
  #798
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Not surprised coming from a Blackhawk:


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11-26-2012, 11:11 PM
  #799
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I know of no one who would take a 70-80% pay cut to ry and make a point. We all know they are overpaid.
Are they overpaid more than Comcast? Or the reprehensible Philip Anschutz? People that blame the players for being overpaid really just don't get it. The players are being paid a fair share of revenues, which are based off of ticket/merchandising sales that are set by the owners. The players would make less if the owners weren't trying to make more money.

There may in fact be something on a philosophical level that is morally banktup in Western economies, but that's an entirely separate discussion. For the purposes of this discussion, it amazes me that people throw out these "you're overpaid!" arguments at players while ignoring owners (not you specifically, but as a rule). It's like people are secretly annoyed that players make money but think the owners are some Citizen Kane-esque heroes of capitalism, some ubermensches that deserve to reap insane profits with nary a sideways glance tossed their way. They're not the ones out there wobbling around after they get concussions, or having millions of people heckle them after a playoff meltdown (see Luongo, Roberto).

Amazing.

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Old
11-27-2012, 01:28 AM
  #800
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Haven't posted in a while... Can't believe the lockout is still ongoing... Usually by this time I would already be making Fire Vigneault threads.

...
You should totally do that. It's almost December and this team hasn't won one game yet. It's clearly not Luongo's fault this time around - he hasn't even let in a single goal yet. The team's record is unacceptable and Coach V should pay the price.

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