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CBA Talk II: Shut up and give me YOUR money!

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Old
12-04-2012, 07:10 PM
  #926
Reverend Mayhem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobi View Post
What happens if the league and union resolve this lockout on their own? Does this mean they don't need Bettman and Fehr anymore?
The players would probably end up getting a raw deal and figure it out along however long the next CBA is and the backlash of the next lockout would be even more of an issue as players would want more back and owners would have a legitimate reason to hold out as they get a sweeter deal than they ever could have imagined.

Assuming the players are as uninformed as they were portrayed last lockout.

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12-04-2012, 08:03 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by gobi View Post
What happens if the league and union resolve this lockout on their own? Does this mean they don't need Bettman and Fehr anymore?
Considering a Commish does far more for his job then CBA issues ,, Bettman is staying around (+ this is his idea remember)

I expect Fehr whenever a deal is made will step aside and his brother Steve will move into leadership of NHLPA

I do think that Bettman might also walk away in a few years and have Daly take over (It appears Bettman and owners are grooming Daly to be successor IMO)

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12-04-2012, 08:06 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
Yeah that's kind of how I see the situation. I'll place the majority of blame on the league for being dicks, but the PA isn't helping themselves much by dragging their feet at the negotiating table and much of the combative stances between the two sides can be traced back to the cloak & dagger disposal of Paul Kelly. All in all the process seems like something designed to make the lawyers and negotiators lots of money, rather than one committed to making actual process.

I've started wondering though, we all question why the PA took so long to come to the negotiating table and criticize them for not doing it a year ago, but could the actual reason have to do with not messing up the summers UFA signing season? I can't imagine what July 1st would be like if this animosity was let out of the closet before hand. Plus it also let the players get one last contract signing period in under the mindset of the previous CBA, as any new one will be less favorable to them. Of course a new one wouldn't take effect until well after July 1st but if GM's had an idea of what the new rules would be shortly after they may have acted very differently. Now they can cling to the contracts they signed in good faith and expect or demand that they be carried over into the new CBA.
Negotiating early does nothing. It's pressure points, not time that gets negotiations done. The NBA and its players started negotiating in 2009 more than a year and a half before the expiration of their CBA and they still didn't begin the season until Christmas of 2011.

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:24 PM
  #929
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Trying so hard not to get excited. Been hurt far too many times, but this negotiation feels different to me. Both sides showing they'll "give" a bit.

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:32 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Trying so hard not to get excited. Been hurt far too many times, but this negotiation feels different to me. Both sides showing they'll "give" a bit.
Im feeling that too. Optimism at an all time high. Im just concerned about getting burned again.

Im close to tearing up just thinking about hockey being back.

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:35 PM
  #931
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Owners back from dinner.

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:44 PM
  #932
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Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA NHL contingent just arrived with owners, Bettman, Daly, Batterman etc

Here come the big boys....

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:48 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA NHL contingent just arrived with owners, Bettman, Daly, Batterman etc

Here come the big boys....
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd the negotiation goes right into the toilet. Just watch.
I wouldn't trust those guys to negotiate $5 off their bar tab.

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:54 PM
  #934
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TEAM1040:
Quote:
RT @joshrimerhockey: Now it appears both Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr will be joining tonight's meetings.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-*breath*-OOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:58 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
TEAM1040:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-*breath*-OOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Wait, this could be something important. I mean why show up all of a sudden so late for a meeting that you weren't supposed to be there to begin with?

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:59 PM
  #936
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I actually take it as good sign

Bettman/Fehr and others wouldn't be coming into meetings this late at night if there wasn't some sorta postive movment

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:00 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
TEAM1040:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-*breath*-OOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Which one of them is going to play Buzz Killington?

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:01 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I actually take it as good sign

Bettman/Fehr and others wouldn't be coming into meetings this late at night if there wasn't some sorta postive movment
"We must squash this positive direction!"

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:11 PM
  #939
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KatieStrangESPN:
Quote:
#CBA At this point, second session supposed to be same group, as in NO Bettman or D. Fehr

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:12 PM
  #940
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-Bobby Mac says this is the 11th hour and both sides recognize that.

-All the Insiders feel a step (in the right direction) has been taken

-Owners have more to give, players can bend more. Both sides knew it, now acting upon it.

-Burkle and Tanenbaum big for the owners side

-Less to do with no Bettman/Fehr and more to do with time running out

What TSN insiders had to say on the matter.

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:14 PM
  #941
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^
The give by owners was always going to occur after NHLPA gave on economic issues

Been said for months ,, I imagine for there to be real progress the NHLPA is giving on economic issues and NHL like planned is giving on Contract issues

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:20 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Considering a Commish does far more for his job then CBA issues ,, Bettman is staying around (+ this is his idea remember)

I expect Fehr whenever a deal is made will step aside and his brother Steve will move into leadership of NHLPA

I do think that Bettman might also walk away in a few years and have Daly take over (It appears Bettman and owners are grooming Daly to be successor IMO)
My question was asked half in jest but yeah, I can see Daly succeeding Bettman. But I doubt Fehr would step aside so soon (unless forced out).

If a deal gets done as a result of this meeting, both Bettman and Fehr should look hard in the mirror.

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:22 PM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobi View Post
My question was asked half in jest but yeah, I can see Daly succeeding Bettman. But I doubt Fehr would step aside so soon (unless forced out).

If a deal gets done as a result of this meeting, both Bettman and Fehr should look hard in the mirror.
He was retired when NHLPA brought him in ,, I could see him stepping aside if it meant his brother Steve was promoted to head union

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:29 PM
  #944
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http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/12/04/...n-over-lockout

Quote:
"I would think the owners who haven't said anything are going to finally have their say after they get updated on where the discussions are at because nobody is happy where this is at," said a league insider Tuesday. "Most certainly, (Bettman) has his allies, but if one owner who isn't happy with the fact that the business is being damaged by this lockout stands up, then I think you could see a group of owners stand up to have their say.

"Nobody wants the league to give the players everything they want, but not everybody is prepared to lose the season because they're concerned with how the business is going to recover from this, especially in the United States."

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:32 PM
  #945
PG Canuck
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@RenLavoieRDS: Sorry if I did not had the time to translate the last tweets. Bill Daly in a room with players right now. No Bettman and Fehr at this point.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:16 PM
  #946
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twitter blowing up regarding the negotiations and possibility about the lockout ending

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:23 PM
  #947
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i keep seeing

"press conference tomorrow at 1"

not sure if its true though

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:32 PM
  #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Negotiating early does nothing. It's pressure points, not time that gets negotiations done. The NBA and its players started negotiating in 2009 more than a year and a half before the expiration of their CBA and they still didn't begin the season until Christmas of 2011.
That depends on whether the union is interested in a cooperative style or an adversarial style. Given the NHLPA sacked their leader for being too cooperative and replaced him with an adversarial style leader.

I'll give you one example

10-11 cap $59.4m
11-12 cap $64.3m
12-13 cap $70.2m

Both sides could have worked together to lock have locked the salary cap in at 2011-12 levels for 2012-13 (kept it until it was passed 50% based cap in 2013-14). No rollbacks, buy outs, no lockout, no lost games, no lost cash etc. The owners would have agreed because repeating $64.3m cap this year would have represented 52% this. Clear and painless way forward for the players without the players feeling like they had something in their hands ($70m cap) and then were asked to give it back. Now the players feel they are giving up a $70m cap which is nonsense since it doesn't exist because it was part of a CBA that didn't get extended.

A cooperative approach from both sides would have done wonders.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:45 PM
  #949
Callhee
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Please guys, don't get my hopes up, I don't think my heart can take any more.

I've been relying on terrible quality AHL streams and playing the old Eastside Hockey Manager game to feed my hockey need.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:48 PM
  #950
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Bob McKenzie's Twitter:

Quote:
Daly: "We are going to meet tomorrow morning before our board meeting at 11."
Quote:
Steve Fehr: "constructive day, best day we've had but still work to be done."
Genuinely sounds like good news and actual progress being made at these meetings.

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