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Justin Schultz

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:50 PM
  #351
puckfan13
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Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
I dont know. I dont know about those players. But obviously they didnt suck defensively that season if they lead the league in +/-. If you suck defensively, how can you lead your team in +/-? Obviously its not a stat to live or die by, but its calculated by the NHL for a reason.
Yeah, sorry, I watch Schultz with my own eyes and see he is an unbelievable talent, not cherrypick some stat that Jeff Schultz and Tom Presissing led the league in.

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11-29-2012, 10:51 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Unlike NHLe, OnSv%, Fenwick or Corsi?

Pfffft.
Those tell a more complete story and add context but I would never rely solely on those to tell me if somebody is a complete defensive player or not.

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11-29-2012, 11:03 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
Those tell a more complete story and add context but I would never rely solely on those to tell me if somebody is a complete defensive player or not.
A more complete story? Nonsense.

Funny that someone would poo poo +/- on one hand yet truck in those nonsense stats with the other.

Many of the "advanced stats" used +/- as a base to begin with. For a long while the tall foreheads would tell the great unwashed that player "x" played "tough" minutes and faced the best competition, which if you were playing the Penguins for instance, the tough minutes were against Matt Cooke while the soft minutes were against Evgeny Malkin.

It was based of course on that useless +/- stat.

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11-29-2012, 11:13 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
A more complete story? Nonsense.

Funny that someone would poo poo +/- on one hand yet truck in those nonsense stats with the other.

Many of the "advanced stats" used +/- as a base to begin with. For a long while the tall foreheads would tell the great unwashed that player "x" played "tough" minutes and faced the best competition, which if you were playing the Penguins for instance, the tough minutes were against Matt Cooke while the soft minutes were against Evgeny Malkin.

It was based of course on that useless +/- stat.
Not meaning to take in any side of the original argument... but where something originated from doesn't dismiss the validity of the end finding.

Lots of real facts, scientific discoveries, inventions, etc... come from really stupid or wrong ideas initially.


Now to take sides...
Most stats can be good with context... some need more context than others. The more outside variables than the individual, the more context needed. +/- is one of them.
An example I know of:
Byfuglien is a minus player wasn't entirely on him.
Quote:
2011-12 Byfuglien with:
PartnerTOI CF% GF% +/-
Enstrom 724 0.558 0.522 +3
Oduya 210 0.524 0.571 +2
Stuart 159 0.489 0.211 -11
Bogosian 41 0.532 0.500 +0
Jones 31 0.339 0.000 -3
Hainsey 27 0.298 0.667 +2
Flood 26 0.533 0.763 +1


Last edited by garret9: 11-29-2012 at 11:24 PM.
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Old
11-29-2012, 11:38 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Not meaning to take in any side of the original argument... but where something originated from doesn't dismiss the validity of the end finding.

Lots of real facts, scientific discoveries, inventions, etc... come from really stupid or wrong ideas initially.


Now to take sides...
Most stats can be good with context... some need more context than others. The more outside variables than the individual, the more context needed. +/- is one of them.
An example I know of:
Byfuglien is a minus player wasn't entirely on him.
The old "its not me, its the other guy" argument. Were those players the only one's on the ice with Byfuglien at the time?

Reminds me of the year stats guys wanted to prop up their golden calf, Shawn Horcoff. You see his team/league worst -33 wasnt his fault. It was the goalie. The goalie would "play more poorly" when Horcoff was on the ice, giving him a poor OnSv%.

Of course they never seemed to consider that Horcoff, may have been part of the cause instead of effect, but either way it is/was an exercise in futility and really tells you nothing at all.

A more reasonable explanation may be that Horcoff's best days were behind him, his play at both ends of the ice had declined significantly, yet he was still thrown out there against the Getzlaf line, or the Sedins, because the team he was on was so poor, that he was the only/best option to put out there against the league's elite.

Of course you could figure all that out by watching the games.

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11-30-2012, 12:22 AM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The old "its not me, its the other guy" argument. Were those players the only one's on the ice with Byfuglien at the time?

Reminds me of the year stats guys wanted to prop up their golden calf, Shawn Horcoff. You see his team/league worst -33 wasnt his fault. It was the goalie. The goalie would "play more poorly" when Horcoff was on the ice, giving him a poor OnSv%.

Of course they never seemed to consider that Horcoff, may have been part of the cause instead of effect, but either way it is/was an exercise in futility and really tells you nothing at all.

A more reasonable explanation may be that Horcoff's best days were behind him, his play at both ends of the ice had declined significantly, yet he was still thrown out there against the Getzlaf line, or the Sedins, because the team he was on was so poor, that he was the only/best option to put out there against the league's elite.

Of course you could figure all that out by watching the games.
huh... you missed it man... I didn't argue that at all... I said entirely...
I'm saying that the stat is obviously not *exclusively* on the individual...
and that's the case with all stats, *but* they aren't all equally affected by others...


It may be bad example because you don't know all the players on the Jets, but I don't know an example on the Oilers.


So summary two things:
Just because an idea came from something that was initially wrong doesn't mean the end idea is wrong.
Stats problems in sports like hockey are that they are affected by others on top of the individual, but that doesn't mean they are affected by the same amount.


Last edited by garret9: 11-30-2012 at 12:32 AM.
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Old
11-30-2012, 06:46 AM
  #357
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I've been very pleasantly surprised by how good Schultz has been defensively. He is far from a traditional shutdown guy but he has shown a very good stick and has generally been excellent one on one. But the bottom line is you can't score if you're not in the oppositions end and what Schultz does extremely well is get the puck moving in the right direction.

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11-30-2012, 08:33 AM
  #358
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I dont care... He'll always be a dick in my mind (not literally you sick ****s)

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11-30-2012, 11:09 PM
  #359
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Another 2 points tonight for Schultz. Now has 31 points in 20 GP. That's over 1.5 PPG, that's insane.

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11-30-2012, 11:36 PM
  #360
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He's also riding his second 9-game point streak of the year!

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11-30-2012, 11:57 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Yourface View Post
He's also riding his second 9-game point streak of the year!
That's the crazy thing. He's not just scoring in bunches, he is putting up points every single game. Over the past 5 games he has averaged 2 PPG.

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12-01-2012, 12:06 AM
  #362
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Kids offensive game is unreal....wow EDM got a good one

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12-01-2012, 12:11 AM
  #363
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bust

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12-01-2012, 12:41 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
I dont care... He'll always be a dick in my mind (not literally you sick ****s)
Then don't post about him. It's that simple

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12-01-2012, 12:44 AM
  #365
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9 points ahead of anyone not named eberle. 14 points ahead of the next dman. In 20 games... Absolutely unreal.

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12-01-2012, 07:48 PM
  #366
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Well ****, I knew this kid was good, but not this good. Why couldn't he come play for his home team? The Nucks would be put over the top with a guy like him. He seems to be Doughty good.

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12-01-2012, 07:51 PM
  #367
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sounds good.

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12-01-2012, 07:53 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
Well ****, I knew this kid was good, but not this good. Why couldn't he come play for his home team? The Nucks would be put over the top with a guy like him. He seems to be Doughty good.
We'll see.. I don't think he's quite going to be Doughty good. He still gets caught following the puck with his eyes when he's defending and using his feet to help him recover, he should be sheltered and given 1st PP time in his rookie season.

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12-01-2012, 08:03 PM
  #369
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The NHL will be the true barometer, as always, but this is a pretty ****ing impressive streak he's on. Completely shocked.

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12-01-2012, 08:07 PM
  #370
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So he's a UFA again next year, regardless of the lockout? I wonder if he intends on re-signing in Edmonton now that his stock is going way up.

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12-01-2012, 08:13 PM
  #371
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So he's a UFA again next year, regardless of the lockout? I wonder if he intends on re-signing in Edmonton now that his stock is going way up.
He signed a 2 year ELC and is an RFA once that expires so he'll be an Oiler for awhile.

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12-01-2012, 08:16 PM
  #372
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How's his defense looking?

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12-01-2012, 08:22 PM
  #373
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How's his defense looking?
average, makes the neccessary reads and has good stick work but like any rookie defenseman adapting to the pro game he has his share of gaffs. His offensive style isnt a liaability but sometimes in his own zone he not in the best position

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12-01-2012, 08:50 PM
  #374
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How's his defense looking?
Pretty good, he made a bad defensive play the other night and got scored on by Nick Palmieri. I wouldn't have him playing much on the PK at the NHL level to start either TBH. Leave that to the bigger bodies for now until he gets his feet wet at the next level. It's still a learning curve for him and I'm sure there will be more growing pains at the next level, however like that game after he gave it up, he went and got it right back. IMO he has that capability even at the next level.

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12-01-2012, 10:31 PM
  #375
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Can't wait till he plays Anaheim

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