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Old
10-21-2012, 01:27 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
You don't think there is much support for the Kessel trade?

That trade is continuously supported here.

Are you suggesting some people are being less than sincere?

Burke will easily deal 1st. round picks to fill huge needs on the team.
So you believe more people support the Kessel trade than don't?

The vast majority hate the trade. 100% of the media hate the trade and crap on it whenever they can.

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10-21-2012, 01:28 PM
  #227
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I think Burke would be more worried about the backlash of missing the playoffs again than that of trading a first rounder(especially if it's conditional).

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10-21-2012, 01:32 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think Burke would be more worried about the backlash of missing the playoffs again than that of trading a first rounder(especially if it's conditional).
People are use to not making the playoffs.

The Leafs can make the playoffs without Luongo. They could also get Luongo and miss the playofs. It's a complete crapshoot.

Without terrible goaltending and coaching they were ableto be a playoff team for a majority of the season. If they improve team defense and Reimer rebounds, they can make it.

If Reimer bombs, they get another top draft pick.

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10-21-2012, 01:32 PM
  #229
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What if they don't get that #1 centre? All Luongo does is make their draft pick much worse.

It's a very risky deal for the Leafs.
How does it make the draft pick worse AND we are talking a conditional 1st.

Don't know how it could make the draft pick worse if they aren't giving up key pieces. Example, Kadri hasn't even been on the team, how do they get worse if he's included.

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10-21-2012, 01:35 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think Burke would be more worried about the backlash of missing the playoffs again than that of trading a first rounder(especially if it's conditional).
I don't think you know Burke very well. I don't think he cares what anybody thinks.

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10-21-2012, 01:35 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think Burke would be more worried about the backlash of missing the playoffs again than that of trading a first rounder(especially if it's conditional).
People must not be reading!

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10-21-2012, 01:35 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
How does it make the draft pick worse AND we are talking a conditional 1st.

Don't know how it could make the draft pick worse if they aren't giving up key pieces. Example, Kadri hasn't even been on the team, how do they get worse if he's included.
Kadri is a solid young prospect-far from the bust most on HF think he is. He can end up on the Canucks and do very well.

There's no reason to trade futures for a mid-30's goalie. And I say this as a Luongo defender who thinks he's a true franchise goalie.

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10-21-2012, 01:36 PM
  #233
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I don't think you know Burke very well. I don't think he cares what anybody thinks.
And that's exactly why he'll continue to be Burke.

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Big deals include 1st. round picks.

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10-21-2012, 01:37 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by hockeygeek View Post
I don't think you know Burke very well. I don't think he cares what anybody thinks.
Then he should have no problem including a 1st despite the Kessel trade, if he thinks it makes the Leafs a better team.

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10-21-2012, 01:37 PM
  #235
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ULF - Why do you care so much about this? Some people think Burke will hopefully have learned his lesson. You don't. That is perfectly okay but repeating yourself over and over is not making a new point.

Nobody knows what will happen until Luongo is traded. The season is not even going to happen so it will not matter for another 6 months anyways.

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10-21-2012, 01:39 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
And that's exactly why he'll continue to be Burke.

Sedins
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Kessel

Big deals include 1st. round picks.
Just my opinion, but the Kessel trade has ended that. No GM has ever gotten the crap from a trade that he has.

Burke doesn't "Care"-sure, but he will way the risks differently gien what happened last time.

Burke is a little more demure the last year or so.

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10-21-2012, 01:41 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Kadri is a solid young prospect-far from the bust most on HF think he is. He can end up on the Canucks and do very well.

There's no reason to trade futures for a mid-30's goalie. And I say this as a Luongo defender who thinks he's a true franchise goalie.
The goal isn't to win the trade it is to improve the team.

What you want in a trade is a win-win situation, and a relationship that might open the door to more beneficial transactions.

What would be wrong if the Canucks got some valuable assets out of the deal?

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10-21-2012, 01:43 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Just my opinion, but the Kessel trade has ended that. No GM has ever gotten the crap from a trade that he has.

Burke doesn't "Care"-sure, but he will way the risks differently gien what happened last time.

Burke is a little more demure the last year or so.
I dislike the Kessel deal.

But Burke should be fired if he cares that I think he was wrong and made a crap deal there.

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10-21-2012, 01:44 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Then he should have no problem including a 1st despite the Kessel trade, if he thinks it makes the Leafs a better team.
He prolly will. Especially when the new CBA comes out and the Nucks have to swallow Lu's cap hit for till the end of time. With Lu in net that pick would be well outside a lottery anyway

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10-21-2012, 01:44 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I dislike the Kessel deal.

But Burke should be fired if he cares that I think he was wrong and made a crap deal there.
It's you x a million though.

What matters is what Burke thinks and the trade did not work out in terms of what he gave up that he thought.

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10-21-2012, 01:45 PM
  #241
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He prolly will. Especially when the new CBA comes out and the Nucks have to swallow Lu's cap hit for till the end of time. With Lu in net that pick would be well outside a lottery anyway
Eh, Lu did nothing to help Florida and he played terrific for them.

Again, too much of a risk. I'm not in the mood for "Risks" anymore.

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10-21-2012, 01:50 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Eh, Lu did nothing to help Florida and he played terrific for them.

Again, too much of a risk. I'm not in the mood for "Risks" anymore.
It's not much of a risk to add an elite goalie to your roster

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10-21-2012, 01:51 PM
  #243
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It's not much of a risk to add an elite goalie to your roster
The concern might be that they end up drafting outside of the giddy zone.

AHL team might take a hit if some prospects are included.

There is no guarantee, but I'd go out on a limb and say Luongo would make the team better.

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10-21-2012, 01:51 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
The goal isn't to win the trade it is to improve the team.

What you want in a trade is a win-win situation, and a relationship that might open the door to more beneficial transactions.

What would be wrong if the Canucks got some valuable assets out of the deal?
There isn't anything wrong with that, but the 1st could potentially be our 1c, with this deep C draft. Fanson makes sense going the other way, so does a forward making over 3 million. With a possible decreasing cap, and the ability to no longer bury contracts in the minors Van will have to take salary back.

I think a deal is entirely possible without having to give up our first rounder. 1st or 30th overall selections, teams in our position need these picks.

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10-21-2012, 01:51 PM
  #245
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It's not much of a risk to add an elite goalie to your roster
It is though. What if he doesn't help them much and just hurts the rebuilding process?

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10-21-2012, 01:53 PM
  #246
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Eh, Lu did nothing to help Florida and he played terrific for them.

Again, too much of a risk. I'm not in the mood for "Risks" anymore.
Toronto now>>>>>Florida then. They were quite literally the worst team since the lockout while Luongo was there.

I don't see why some Leafs fans want to tank. Kessel, Lupul, Grabovski, and Phaneuf, are all in their primes right now. Why waste their years by sucking instead of trying to start competing? Gardiner's going to continue his development this year, while Rielly will likely make the team in a year or two.

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10-21-2012, 01:53 PM
  #247
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It is though. What if he doesn't help them much and just hurts the rebuilding process?
Do you think making the playoffs is an improvement?

Re: Conditional

If they don't make the playoffs no 1st. round pick.

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10-21-2012, 01:58 PM
  #248
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It is though. What if he doesn't help them much and just hurts the rebuilding process?
As a gm you gotta have some balls to make trades. There's a risk attached to every trade you make but trading a first round pick for an elite goalie is a trade i would make every time if my team needed some stable goaltending. It's a calculated low risk move. Very few first round picks have the same kind of positive impact a good keeper does

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10-21-2012, 02:17 PM
  #249
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Luongo had his job taken on him by basically a rookie in the playoffs.

He played on an elite team, and the fans of said team want to get rid of him (Don't let them fool you).

Luongo in Toronto is not an 'elite' goaltender. He's a 3 or 4 bad games away from being ruined.

With our porous defense, it's likely to happen. He'll crack, and we simply don't have the tools to put him back together again.

All I've heard in Van City was how he changed his style, how his knee(Or hip, I forget which) are bad so he doesn't move as fast side-to-side as he did, his glove-hand is weak, he's mentally fragile etc. I heard all this during last season and in the playoffs.

He's not the right guy for the job here in Toronto - Not yet.

If this was 2 years from now, when Carlyle has been given enough time to rid the players of Wilson's bad habits, and Burke's been given time to fill the team with the right players, then go ahead.

But this is a really bad time for it, and one bad season in Toronto will cripple him going forward.

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10-21-2012, 02:29 PM
  #250
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Luongo had his job taken on him by basically a rookie in the playoffs.
Schneider is not your average rookie goalie. He is 26 and was developed slowly and properly.

But yes Lu did lose his job to him, but he also made it the game 7 of the stanley cup final the season before. That has to be worth something.

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He played on an elite team, and the fans of said team want to get rid of him (Don't let them fool you).
Id want to keep Schneider over Lu as well. They have to trade one.

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Luongo in Toronto is not an 'elite' goaltender. He's a 3 or 4 bad games away from being ruined.
Agreed that he is no longer elite, but he is still very good. I don't agree at all on that 3 or 4 bad games away from being ruined. This guy has been a top 10 goalie for his whole career and is 33 which isnt old for a goalie. I think he still has a few good years in him.

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With our porous defense, it's likely to happen. He'll crack, and we simply don't have the tools to put him back together again.
Carlyle will fix this.

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All I've heard in Van City was how he changed his style, how his knee(Or hip, I forget which) are bad so he doesn't move as fast side-to-side as he did, his glove-hand is weak, he's mentally fragile etc. I heard all this during last season and in the playoffs.
I haven't heard anything about the changing of style or knee/hip problems but they could be true. A lot of goalies weakness is there glove hand. He definitely has had some moments where he has looked mentally fragile, but he still made it to game 7 of the stanley cup final and won a gold medal with insane pressure.

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He's not the right guy for the job here in Toronto - Not yet.
Why not? We were in playoff contention for half of the season last year looking really good. With a true number 1 goalie this team would make the playoffs.

If we can find a deal that makes sense for our club (no 1st rounder or top prospects) then I hope Burke does it.

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