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10-22-2012, 01:12 AM
  #301
Kesler is Bestler
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Because the reality is there are factors, that will play into that, that are quite obvious. Cap hit for starters as well as age. Burke has said many times, the best deal is when the two clubs making a trade both win. Burke isnt looking to fleece anyone; and to expect the moon for a very good goalie, with factors such as age and cap hit being a consideration, is short sighted and ignorant. I'm sure if a deal were to go down, it will benefit both teams.
So how is it that whats been proposed on the leafs side considered a win for Vancouver then?

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10-22-2012, 01:14 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Kesler is Bestler View Post
So how is it that whats been proposed on the leafs side considered a win for Vancouver then?
Not sure what you mean here, the grammar is a little off.

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10-22-2012, 01:18 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Kesler is Bestler View Post
So how is it that whats been proposed on the leafs side considered a win for Vancouver then?
Who said anything about Leaf proposals being accurate or a win for the Cannucks. The reality is that if a trade went down, it is very unlikley that anyone has accurately predicted the exact players going back and forth. What is factual, is Burke believes in making trades that helps both teams. Getting all worked up and excited about make believe proposals is ridiculous.

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10-22-2012, 01:20 AM
  #304
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The sooner Luongo gets sent back to Florida, the sooner we can stop talking about this crap.

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10-22-2012, 01:29 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Who said anything about Leaf proposals being accurate or a win for the Cannucks. The reality is that if a trade went down, it is very unlikley that anyone has accurately predicted the exact players going back and forth. What is factual, is Burke believes in making trades that helps both teams. Getting all worked up and excited about make believe proposals is ridiculous.
Im not getting worked up. It was a general question. Im asking how any of the players being proposed from the Leafs side help Vancouver. Your post mentions that if a trade were to occur it would benefit both teams, I dont see any of these proposed trades helping Vancouver. Dont get me wrong, I dont really care if a trade even occurred. I was just curious as to what Leafs fan think would help Vancouver out.

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10-22-2012, 01:32 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
It's idiotic to think it's fair for any of Gardiner, Kadri, Finn or a 1st round pick to go your wayjust as it's idiotic for anyone here to legitimately belive that Gillis is going to allow himself to get fleeced. I really do not see a trade to be made between Vancouver and Toronto here. We're not giving you any of the things you want and you're not giving us Luongo for anything less than the things you want. Sounds like a stalemate to me.
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
I don't think Canucks fans will ever be satisfied with what Leafs fans would offer. Personally, the following would be available:

Blacker
Colborne
Kadri
Frattin
Picks after the first round
and other prospects


These are the main pieces the Leafs would be willing to deal. Like it or not, I believe that's the reality of the situation. If the Canucls can do better then Kadri or Colborne, then that's great, good luck.
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Originally Posted by MapleReef View Post
I would only give a first if Vancouver took salary too.....maybe a Connolly or a Komasirek?

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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
I hope we get Luongo. He'd all but guarantee a post season birth the next few years. Who cares if he's 33, he can play and would be a very welcome addition here, even if he costs more than we hoped. A top goalie like Luongo is exactly what this team needs. We got Ed Belfour when he was 38 and he was spectacular for this team until he was 40ish. Why couldn't Luongo do the same?

I know he has a terrible contract, but the reason many people here don't want him is because of his age. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no team is going to trade a 25ish all-star goalie or let one walk to free agency. This is what Burke can expect if he wants a real #1 guy that will take us to the playoffs and if it costs a first, who cares? Giving up a draft pick and/or a prospect or two is worth it for a few years of playoff hockey in this city. I hope and think that we'll acquire him for a salary dump + pick/prospect, but even if Burke overpays for him it will be worth it.

I think the deal will be something like: Bozak/MacArthur + Komisarek/Lombardi + 2013 first round pick for Luongo + Weise.
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Kadri + top 10 protected 1st + Lombardi(cap dump) for Luongo would be a satisfactory return, imo.
That would be something id consider, wed have

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
MacArthur - Grabovski - JVR
Kulemin - McClement - Frattin
Kamarov - Steckel - Brown

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Gardiner - Komisarek
Liles - Franson/Holzer

Luongo
Reimer

We'd be a #1 C (hopefully solved by a top 10 pick), a Top 4 D (Rielly, Percy, Blacker, Finn) and a #2 LW away from being a contender IMO.
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
Vancouver isn't getting a 1st for Luongo. They'll get a couple of B prospects and a 2nd to have the opportunity to dump a MASSIVE contract that is impairing their ability to improve and compete for years. Don't pretend as if the entire league is clueless as to the situation in Vancouver - we all know Luongo is a burden, not some magnificent asset that you would happily keep on your books for years.

Furthermore, he isn't young, has not really performed Vezina-like in the NHL games that truly matter, isn't mentally capable of tolerating what the Toronto media will throw at him, etc. As a Leaf fan, I'll take him just to get back into the playoffs. But not for high end picks and prospects. Van can have Kadri. Not the 1st - because a "mid-1st" is never that simple.
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
IMO:

If the rule passes that the signing team eats a retirement deal then his value increases, and multiple teams could have interest.

If Luongo is willing to waive his clause to go to multiple locations the value increases as there is competition for his services.

I could see something like Kadri, Blacker, conditional 1st. in 2013(Leafs make playoffs), conditional 1st. in 2014(Leafs win the Cup).

Burke has shown no fears of throwing 1st. round picks into deals. Look at the depth of the Pronger deal, overall he gave up 4 first round picks for Pronger (IIRC and a 2nd.).

If Luongo is the answer and they end up in the playoffs then we're talking about a 16th. to 30th. first round pick. Kaberle landed a 1st. and former 1st. rounder (Colborne).

I'd speculate Burke would get another asset in return, someone from the Canucks farm team. Probably a middling prospect who might need a change of scenery.

Kadri, Blacker, conditional 1st.(2013 playoffs), conditional 1st.(2014 Cup)
for
Luongo, prospect.

It may be necessary to move salary from the Leafs to the Canucks to balance the cap situations out.

I know Leafs' fans will scream in abject terror, but I'm looking at Burke's history of trades, and his propensity to include picks.

Etc....You must have a very low opinion of your fanbase.

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10-22-2012, 01:32 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Kesler is Bestler View Post
Im not getting worked up. It was a general question. Im asking how any of the players being proposed from the Leafs side help Vancouver. Your post mentions that if a trade were to occur it would benefit both teams, I dont see any of these proposed trades helping Vancouver. Dont get me wrong, I dont really care if a trade even occurred. I was just curious as to what Leafs fan think would help Vancouver out.
There's nothing we'd be willing to give up that would help you guys. If Vancouver is okay with getting Bozak, MacArthur and Blacker, then great. Otherwise, like I said, I really don't believe there is a trade to be made here.

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10-22-2012, 01:35 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Etc....You must have a very low opinion of your fanbase.
I don't really have an opinion of this fanbase one way or the other. I know what I'd be willing to give up and what I would not be willing to give up. Anyone else can offer whatever opinon they want. I'm simply stating mine.

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10-22-2012, 01:39 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Kesler is Bestler View Post
Im not getting worked up. It was a general question. Im asking how any of the players being proposed from the Leafs side help Vancouver. Your post mentions that if a trade were to occur it would benefit both teams, I dont see any of these proposed trades helping Vancouver. Dont get me wrong, I dont really care if a trade even occurred. I was just curious as to what Leafs fan think would help Vancouver out.
Because the proposals being offered are not from legit NHL GM's. This is all make believe and a bunch of young people who have likely played too many video games and assume playing real life GM is easy. Stop taking things too seriously

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10-22-2012, 01:42 AM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
There's nothing we'd be willing to give up that would help you guys. If Vancouver is okay with getting Bozak, MacArthur and Blacker, then great. Otherwise, like I said, I really don't believe there is a trade to be made here.
If you don't want to give up significant assets for Luongo(indeed, you seem to prefer he goes to Florida), that's fine. But to call people idiots(see your previous post) for being willing to work out a deal that's fair for both sides is a bit much, imo.

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10-22-2012, 01:45 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If you don't want to give up significant assets for Luongo(indeed, you seem to prefer he goes to Florida), that's fine. But to call people idiots(see your previous post) for being willing to work out a deal that's fair for both sides is a bit much, imo.
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
In my opinion, it's idiotic to think it's fair for any of Gardiner, Kadri, Finn or a 1st round pick to go your way just as it's idiotic for anyone here to legitimately belive that Gillis is going to allow himself to get fleeced. I really do not see a trade to be made between Vancouver and Toronto here. We're not giving you any of the things you want and you're not giving us Luongo for anything less than the things you want. Sounds like a stalemate to me.
Fine. Fixed.

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10-22-2012, 02:05 AM
  #312
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Why should Burke make a deal that is fair for both sides, Vancouver is in the position of needing to deal Luongo, let Gillis decide what is fairer to him. Either way he is not going to get back half as much as Canucks fans think he may. Burke's going to offer what he feels is reasonable and Gillis will decide as Howson did in the Nash trade which mediocre package will be best. Then we can move on, esp the Nucks fans. That's the reality of the situation.

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10-22-2012, 02:20 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
Fine. Fixed.
The Nucks fans visiting our board mistakenly think there is a market for Luongo when there isn't. When there is little to no market in a player. The team in the position dealing player X is in a weak trade position as Howson soon found out with Nash. So you can imagine the offer Gillis is going to have to accept when there is even less trade partners for Luongo.

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10-22-2012, 02:36 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The Nucks fans visiting our board mistakenly think there is a market for Luongo when there isn't. When there is little to no market in a player. The team in the position dealing player X is in a weak trade position as Howson soon found out with Nash. So you can imagine the offer Gillis is going to have to accept when there is even less trade partners for Luongo.
Gillis better hope to high heaven that whatever new CBA comes out doesn't screw him in regards to Luongo's contract anymore than he already is. Like you said, he's already not dealing from a position of strength. If the CBA pans out like it seems it will, then Gillis is going to be even more up ****'s creek than he already is.

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10-22-2012, 02:38 AM
  #315
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If we can't find a deal that makes sense for us then we should just go with Reimer + Scrivens. Carlyle should help a lot to improve our system, which should make Reimer/Scrivens job easier. If things aren't working out then we can look for another stop-gap and then go after a guy like Backstrom next summer. I am one of the fans that would be happy to have Lu, but I still don't think it is urgent that we get him so we should not overpay. I trust Burkie will handle the situation right.

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10-22-2012, 02:54 AM
  #316
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What did Montreal get in return for Patrick Roy, one of the best if not the best Goalies in history? Goalies already traditionally don't bring back fair trade value in trades.

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10-22-2012, 02:57 AM
  #317
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You guys do realize that none of you are the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs or the Vancouver Canucks yes?

These "If X is involved, we're not interested" statements are a touch ridiculous.

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10-22-2012, 03:16 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Platapie View Post
You guys do realize that none of you are the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs or the Vancouver Canucks yes?

These "If X is involved, we're not interested" statements are a touch ridiculous.
You do realize this is a message board, in which people offer their opinions and discuss various topics right?

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10-22-2012, 04:29 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
What did Montreal get in return for Patrick Roy, one of the best if not the best Goalies in history? Goalies already traditionally don't bring back fair trade value in trades.
And the goalie market is much more saturated than it was 20 years ago. There are too many goalies out there who can put up solid numbers.

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10-22-2012, 04:50 AM
  #320
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Let the van fans spew their crap. They have been through a lot recently. In regards to the other side of success. President trophy winners, odds on favorites year after year, the favorites of experts, still unable to win the big one. Entirely possible, the reason why they act like trading lolungo is like letting go of their first born. Window quickly closing on that franchise.

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10-22-2012, 05:06 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The Nucks fans visiting our board mistakenly think there is a market for Luongo when there isn't. When there is little to no market in a player. The team in the position dealing player X is in a weak trade position as Howson soon found out with Nash. So you can imagine the offer Gillis is going to have to accept when there is even less trade partners for Luongo.
A package slightly lesser than Nash's would be fine with most Canucks fans.

Dubinsky
Anisimov
Erixon
1st

The Leafs equivalent (IMO - could be off) would be:
Kulemin
Bozak
Percy
1st

Even if one of the assets were removed it would still be a valuable package... unfortunately substituting Franson/MacArthur/LCK in completely kills the value and is probably more in the Niemi/Crawford goalie territory.

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10-22-2012, 05:20 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
A package slightly lesser than Nash's would be fine with most Canucks fans.

Dubinsky
Anisimov
Erixon
1st

The Leafs equivalent (IMO - could be off) would be:
Kulemin
Bozak
Percy
1st

Even if one of the assets were removed it would still be a valuable package... unfortunately substituting Franson/MacArthur/LCK in completely kills the value and is probably more in the Niemi/Crawford goalie territory.
Slightly off, since the value of what the Leafs 1st rounder will likely be is much higher than the value of what New York's first rounder will likely be. If a pick must be included in any package for Luongo, then it's a 2nd rounder at the most, or Burke hangs up the phone.

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10-22-2012, 05:22 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
A package slightly lesser than Nash's would be fine with most Canucks fans.

Dubinsky
Anisimov
Erixon
1st

The Leafs equivalent (IMO - could be off) would be:
Kulemin
Bozak
Percy
1st

Even if one of the assets were removed it would still be a valuable package... unfortunately substituting Franson/MacArthur/LCK in completely kills the value and is probably more in the Niemi/Crawford goalie territory.
Ok dude, I said let you guys spew your crap so I guess I got it. Do you want our revenue while your at it?

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10-22-2012, 05:29 AM
  #324
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Ok dude, I said let you guys spew your crap so I guess I got it. Do you want our revenue while your at it?
I don't see what's wrong with my comment.

A Leafs fan made a comparison between the Nash trade and Luongo's value.

I've come here before where a fan made a comment where Luongo's value was similar to McCabe (pre FLA trade) and that was a constructive negotiation.

It's silly to just except Gillis will take whatever players you throw at him, just as it's silly for Canucks fans to not realize the importance of players like Gardiner to your franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
Slightly off, since the value of what the Leafs 1st rounder will likely be is much higher than the value of what New York's first rounder will likely be. If a pick must be included in any package for Luongo, then it's a 2nd rounder at the most, or Burke hangs up the phone.
Would I be off in saying the difference between the Leafs 1st (with Luongo) and the NYR 1st is the same value between Erixon and Percy?

Either way I don't think Gillis is really interested in your 1st as much as roster players.

It makes sense - the Leafs who are still rebuilding/retooling could easily end up with another lottery pick.
For the Canucks even a lottery pick, value aside won't help them next season.

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10-22-2012, 07:15 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The Nucks fans visiting our board mistakenly think there is a market for Luongo when there isn't. When there is little to no market in a player. The team in the position dealing player X is in a weak trade position as Howson soon found out with Nash. So you can imagine the offer Gillis is going to have to accept when there is even less trade partners for Luongo.
Pretty much this. It may change if that clause being bandied about with regards to retirement contracts comes to fruition. But if it doesn't, forget it, the market is bare. Florida is a team on the brink, and they could use a legit starter, but Tallon has built that team very intelligently, I can't see him giving up what Nuck fans think they'll get.

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