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10-22-2012, 07:46 AM
  #326
Vankiller Whale
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Possible destinations:
Chicago
Edmonton
Florida
Columbus

Or he stays in Vancouver. It's not like we have no choice but to give him away to Toronto for a return that does nothing for us.

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10-22-2012, 07:55 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Possible destinations:
Chicago
Edmonton
Florida
Columbus

Or he stays in Vancouver. It's not like we have no choice but to give him away to Toronto for a return that does nothing for us.
Fight the good fight. This is like Ground Hog Day.

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10-22-2012, 07:58 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Possible destinations:
Chicago
Edmonton
Florida
Columbus

Or he stays in Vancouver. It's not like we have no choice but to give him away to Toronto for a return that does nothing for us.
Perfect. He goes to one of those locations, and we don't have to hear anything else about it. Good luck to you sir.

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10-22-2012, 08:10 AM
  #329
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Perfect. He goes to one of those locations, and we don't have to hear anything else about it. Good luck to you sir.
Fine. Hopefully Burke feels the same way.

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10-22-2012, 08:20 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
A package slightly lesser than Nash's would be fine with most Canucks fans.

Dubinsky
Anisimov
Erixon
1st

The Leafs equivalent (IMO - could be off) would be:
Kulemin
Bozak
Percy
1st

Even if one of the assets were removed it would still be a valuable package... unfortunately substituting Franson/MacArthur/LCK in completely kills the value and is probably more in the Niemi/Crawford goalie territory.
I cited Nash not to compare him to Luongo in value, but that their situations are almost identical. Nash had a longer list of potential teams, and considering Howson held out, it was widely expected the return he got would have been better than the package than he got. That's strike #1

Again, goalies traditionally do not bring back as much as a player. Ie. See Patrick Roy. that's strike #2.

Further, Rangers first is likely a late firster next summer, Rangers also didn't have to part with either Kreider, Stephan, Mller, Mcilrath, Del Zotto, their A prospects for Nash. Strike #3.

What does this all mean when you add that Luongo has a very short list, a long contract, is a goalie, and that Gillis is dealing from a position of weakness, don't expect a big return. Either way, Burke said he wouldn't overpay for Nash as he said for Luongo, given the return for Nash was already surprisingly low, and Burke didn't try to better that, it's a safe assumption the package for Luongo is even lower.

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10-22-2012, 08:22 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I cited Nash not to compare him to Luongo in value, but that their situations are almost identical. Nash had a longer list of potential teams, and considering Howson held out, it was widely expected the return he got would have been better than the package than he got. That's strike #1

Again, goalies traditionally do not bring back as much as a player. Ie. See Patrick Roy. that's strike #2.

Further, Rangers first is likely a late firster next summer, Rangers also didn't have to part with either Kreider, Stephan, Mller, Mcilrath, Del Zotto, their A prospects for Nash. Strike #3.

What does this all mean when you add that Luongo has a very short list, a long contract, is a goalie, and that Gillis is dealing from a position of weakness, don't expect a big return. Either way, Burke said he wouldn't overpay for Nash as he said for Luongo, given the return for Nash was already surprisingly low, and Burke didn't try to better that, it's a safe assumption the package for Luongo is even lower.
Luongo's age + contract: strike #3.

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10-22-2012, 08:24 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Perfect. He goes to one of those locations, and we don't have to hear anything else about it. Good luck to you sir.
This poster keeps trying...He must love our prospects pool.

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10-22-2012, 08:25 AM
  #333
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He keeps trying...He must love our prospects.
What he fails to understand (or just refuses to) is that we like our prospects too. And we like them a heck of a lot more than we like Luongo.

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10-22-2012, 08:26 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I cited Nash not to compare him to Luongo in value, but that their situations are almost identical. Nash had a longer list of potential teams, and considering Howson held out, it was widely expected the return he got would have been better than the package than he got. That's strike #1

Again, goalies traditionally do not bring back as much as a player. Ie. See Patrick Roy. that's strike #2.

Further, Rangers first is likely a late firster next summer, Rangers also didn't have to part with either Kreider, Stephan, Mller, Mcilrath, Del Zotto, their A prospects for Nash. Strike #3.

What does this all mean when you add that Luongo has a very short list, a long contract, is a goalie, and that Gillis is dealing from a position of weakness, don't expect a big return. Either way, Burke said he wouldn't overpay for Nash as he said for Luongo, given the return for Nash was already surprisingly low, and Burke didn't try to better that, it's a safe assumption the package for Luongo is even lower.
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
Luongo's age + contract: strike #3.
No kidding. It takes some special insight to expect much of a return.

I can't recall one Player who has waived to go to Edmonton or Columbus although they do waive pretty quickly to get out of those places.

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10-22-2012, 08:27 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
Luongo's age + contract: strike #3.
I really don't care if we go after Luongo or not, but if we can get him at a firesale price. Then I would be for it. Burke's last 5 or 6 deals he has done extremely well, almost to the point that other GM's are probably leary dealing with him.

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10-22-2012, 08:29 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
And the goalie market is much more saturated than it was 20 years ago. There are too many goalies out there who can put up solid numbers.
Just none that the Leafs own.

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10-22-2012, 08:33 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I really don't care if we go after Luongo or not, but if we can get him at a firesale price. Then I would be for it. Burke's last 5 or 6 deals he has done extremely well, almost to the point that other GM's are probably leary dealing with him.
There are only two scenarios in which I can envision being okay with trading for Luongo:

1. Either we get him for far less than what some Vancouver fans feel he's worth (i.e. no Gardiner, no Kadri, no Frattin, and NO first round pick, and this is just for starters, I don't feel like listing every prospect I'd refuse to trade for him) or,

2. If the Leafs were a piece or two away from being a legitimate Cup contender. If we had a true #1 centre, we rolled four solid lines and we were literally only a solid goaltender away, then sure. Trade for Luongo as long as it doesn't hurt your ability to still contend.

As of now, #1 is an unknown, but based on the delusional posts I've been seeing from Vancouver's finest, it's a no-go.

I don't even need to elaborate on the legitimacy of point #2.

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10-22-2012, 08:33 AM
  #338
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What he fails to understand (or just refuses to) is that we like our prospects too. And we like them a heck of a lot more than we like Luongo.
And we like Luongo a lot more than we'd like scraps. I didn't start this thread, but I can tell you we'd easily keep Luongo over a lot of the proposals here. No Canucks fan is going to say "please take this elite goalie off our hands for us."

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10-22-2012, 08:35 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
And we like Luongo a lot more than we'd like scraps. I didn't start this thread, but I can tell you we'd easily keep Luongo over a lot of the proposals here.
I don't think you're going to find too many people on this board who would lose any sleep over that.

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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No Canucks fan is going to say "please take this elite goalie off our hands for us."
And no Leafs fan is going to say "here, strip our cupboard bare while we help you guys get out of contract hell."

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10-22-2012, 08:36 AM
  #340
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No kidding. It takes some special insight to expect much of a return.

I can't recall one Player who has waived to go to Edmonton or Columbus although they do waive pretty quickly to get out of those places.
Where ever he ends up, it will be an even 'softer' deal than Nash's deal was. There already is another goalie Tim Thomas out there that the Bruins will get little back for. Goalie trades have traditionally brought back little. Dom Hasek was traded for Kozlov, Slater and a late first rounder. This was when he was the best goalie in the NHL. Add that to what Roy brought back, and one has to chuckle at some of the packages Vancouver fans are proposing, it's simply not reality.

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10-22-2012, 08:39 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
And we like Luongo a lot more than we'd like scraps. I didn't start this thread, but I can tell you we'd easily keep Luongo over a lot of the proposals here. No Canucks fan is going to say "please take this elite goalie off our hands for us."
Then keep him, Leafs fans don't care if Gillis won't accept supposed scraps.

There's no market for him, get it through your head. LOL

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10-22-2012, 08:40 AM
  #342
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It's pretty much Florida and Toronto and that's it.

Listened to Pierre McGuire this morning on the Team 1200, and they were discussing the Leafs and Luongo rumour and he said it makes sense (cited the Nonis connection) and said Vancouver won't get nearly as much as they hope for. He said (and I am paraphrasing a little): "the biggest thing they will get is cap relief.... and some assets but they won't get nearly as much as they think. It's about cap relief".

Clearly everyone knows this except Canucks fans.

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10-22-2012, 08:43 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Where ever he ends up, it will be an even 'softer' deal than Nash's deal was. There already is another goalie Tim Thomas out there that the Bruins will get little back for. Goalie trades have traditionally brought back little. Dom Hasek was traded for Kozlov, Slater and a late first rounder. This was when he was the best goalie in the NHL. Add that to what Roy brought back, and one has to chuckle at some of the packages Vancouver fans are proposing, it's simply not reality.
I've used the Brian Campbell trade (To Fla, from Chicago for Olesz) as the benchmark since the situation broke back in May. I still feel that way today.

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10-22-2012, 08:43 AM
  #344
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Neither Tallon or Burke will overpay for Luongo, and Gillis knows this, and he has no choice but to eat up another year of goalie controversies, and or invest 9.33M on one position. Your move Mike.

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10-22-2012, 08:44 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
It's pretty much Florida and Toronto and that's it.

Listened to Pierre McGuire this morning on the Team 1200, and they were discussing the Leafs and Luongo rumour and he said it makes sense (cited the Nonis connection) and said Vancouver won't get nearly as much as they hope for. He said (and I am paraphrasing a little): "the biggest thing they will get is cap relief.... and some assets but they won't get nearly as much as they think. It's about cap relief".

Clearly everyone knows this except Canucks fans.
That is speculation, but Vancover's original offer was rumoured at Gardiner, 1st, Frattin, Bozak. I'm fine with not getting close to that. But Gillis isn't going to send Luongo away for nothing. Elsewise he'd just go to Florida.

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10-22-2012, 08:44 AM
  #346
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I don't think you're going to find too many people on this board who would lose any sleep over that.

And no Leafs fan is going to say "here, strip our cupboard bare while we help you guys get out of contract hell."
I'd give up Kadri and a conditional 1st. without much hesitation.

Luongo for the next 5 years should be fine, and Kadri is a prospect without any guarantee attached.

Conditional pick is satisified if the team makes the playoffs, meaning the pick is anywhere from 16-30. I'd even throw in a conditional 1st. if the Leafs win the Cup within the next 2 years. Odds of that happening anyone?

Not many people are predicting the playoffs for the Leafs this year are they? So you gamble a little and the payout isn't that high anyway.

I'd also be willing to go with Reimer and stay with what the team has and let it playout one more year.

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10-22-2012, 08:45 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Possible destinations:
Chicago
Edmonton
Florida
Columbus

Or he stays in Vancouver. It's not like we have no choice but to give him away to Toronto for a return that does nothing for us.
Unfortunately 'we' don't have a voice in this trade. It's completely between management teams and they don't make trades the way 'we' (posters) speculate that they do.

Does it actually make much sense for him to go to Florida? I mean, with Markstrom coming up and Theodore as well as Clemmenson still under contract, why would they want Luongo? Oh, and I'm not sure his front-loaded contract is very appealing to them considering they have a fairly limited budget and actually lose money.

Why is Columbus included? They just picked up Bobrovsky in the offseason and seem comfortable going into next season with him and Mason as their tandem. Not to mention that they're also a team that loses money and wouldn't find his actual salary very attractive.

With Edmonton, does Gillis really want to trade him to a Canadian division rival? That's like Toronto making a big trade with Ottawa or Montreal. Not likely to happen.

Chicago is actually the most likely destination outside of Toronto, but again there is the problem of the Blackhawks not only being in the Western Conference but they're also a rival. That being said, Toronto and Boston are cross-boarder rivals as well and have made 2 trades in the last few years. This is the most likely option outside of Toronto, but one would wonder if Luongo would actually waive to go there. I, like everyone else who doesn't personally know him, am unsure of whether or not he'd actually waive to go there. It's up in the air.

It's unlikely that Gillis would take a lesser return to trade him to Chicago (some Vancouver posters have insinuated this) because not only is he looking for the best return (he certainly doesn't have an irrational hate for Toronto the way many Western Canadians do), but also to get him out of the conference. It's actually more likely that he is traded to the East for a slightly lesser return.

Lastly, with Florida's refusal to trade Bjugstad for him it basically sets his value pretty low. Considering Gardiner is worth far more than Bjugstad is you can basically rule him out of any deal (also, Burke certainly wouldn't trade him to begin with). It's more likely that Luongo fetches a mid level prospect + a second round pick + a salary dump or an upper-tier prospect (Kadri, Colborne, Morin, Beach) + a salary dump.

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10-22-2012, 08:47 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
That is speculation, but Vancover's original offer was rumoured at Gardiner, 1st, Frattin, Bozak. I'm fine with not getting close to that. But Gillis isn't going to send Luongo away for nothing. Elsewise he'd just go to Florida.
He will get a couple tangible pieces back (plus some cap relief). But I doubt he gets a 1st or Gardiner or whatever.

I wouldn't be shocked with a Bozak + Frattin deal to be honest. Or Kulemin + (something along those lines).

I agree he won't send Luongo away for nothing and will probably end up with a serviceable piece or two.

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10-22-2012, 08:48 AM
  #349
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It's pretty much Florida and Toronto and that's it.

Listened to Pierre McGuire this morning on the Team 1200, and they were discussing the Leafs and Luongo rumour and he said it makes sense (cited the Nonis connection) and said Vancouver won't get nearly as much as they hope for. He said (and I am paraphrasing a little): "the biggest thing they will get is cap relief.... and some assets but they won't get nearly as much as they think. It's about cap relief".

Clearly everyone knows this except Canucks fans.
One thing that throws that out of kilter though is if they implement the retiring cap hit going back to Vancouver.

It they put that into the new CBA, there is no long term cap relief involved. Without that change the value is much lower due to the threat of retirement, but with that change the risk is retained by the Canucks.

That change, and the play of Lack could very well have the Canucks rethink who it is they want to move, Schneider or Luongo.

I'm really curious on the new CBA, because I think it will change everything.

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10-22-2012, 08:48 AM
  #350
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I'd give up Kadri and a conditional 1st. without much hesitation.
Conditional 1st, maybe. But I absolutely do not want to give up Kadri unless it were in a package that would bring someone like Getzlaf/Perry/Ryan/Stastny etc. back. I really feel in my gut that if Kadri is traded, it's going to burn this team big time.

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I'd also be willing to go with Reimer and stay with what the team has and let it playout one more year.
This, to me, is far more preferable than adding Luongo in anything other than Nash-type deal.

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