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Old
10-22-2012, 08:49 AM
  #351
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^@Smitty assuming the clause allowing Vancouver to pay part of Luongo's actual salary goes through, those teams would be a lot more likely to want Luongo. Not to mention Columbus spends to the cap.

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10-22-2012, 08:52 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I'd give up Kadri and a conditional 1st. without much hesitation.

Luongo for the next 5 years should be fine, and Kadri is a prospect without any guarantee attached.

Conditional pick is satisified if the team makes the playoffs, meaning the pick is anywhere from 16-30. I'd even throw in a conditional 1st. if the Leafs win the Cup within the next 2 years. Odds of that happening anyone?

Not many people are predicting the playoffs for the Leafs this year are they? So you gamble a little and the payout isn't that high anyway.

I'd also be willing to go with Reimer and stay with what the team has and let it playout one more year.
The market alone does not warrant such a price be paid. Unless you're trying to maintain some kind of goodwill will the Vancouver management, you do not offer that much.

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10-22-2012, 08:54 AM
  #353
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He will get a couple tangible pieces back (plus some cap relief). But I doubt he gets a 1st or Gardiner or whatever.

I wouldn't be shocked with a Bozak + Frattin deal to be honest. Or Kulemin + (something along those lines).

I agree he won't send Luongo away for nothing and will probably end up with a serviceable piece or two.
I think Grabo makes more sense, 5.5M for 5.33M, a basic trade of contracts. Kesler is on the shelf till the new year, assuming we have hockey before then. It makes sense and wouldn't be shocking.

As for the Gardiner, Percy, 1st rd picks talk, it is too ridiculous to even address because that is not happening for Luongo.

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10-22-2012, 08:56 AM
  #354
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I wouldn't mind Grabovski coming back, but I can't imagine Toronto trades their only top 6 centre.

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10-22-2012, 08:58 AM
  #355
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I think Grabo makes more sense, 5.5M for 5.33M, a basic trade of contracts. Kesler is on the shelf till the new year, assuming we have hockey before then. It makes sense and wouldn't be shocking.

As for the Gardiner, Percy, 1st rd picks talk, it is too ridiculous to even address because that is not happening for Luongo.
Might sense for them in the short term, but for us trading our best center is a bit daft. Grabo is also a bit pricey to be your third line center.

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10-22-2012, 09:00 AM
  #356
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I think Grabo makes more sense, 5.5M for 5.33M, a basic trade of contracts. Kesler is on the shelf till the new year, assuming we have hockey before then. It makes sense and wouldn't be shocking.

As for the Gardiner, Percy, 1st rd picks talk, it is too ridiculous to even address because that is not happening for Luongo.
If Burke trades Grabovski, our centres situation is beyond pathetic. Bozak, Connolly, McClement and Steckel. That doesn't even instill fear at the AHL level.

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10-22-2012, 09:02 AM
  #357
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The market alone does not warrant such a price be paid. Unless you're trying to maintain some kind of goodwill will the Vancouver management, you do not offer that much.
We don't know what the rules of the market are going to be.

What if the Canucks pick up max cap exchange, under the new rules it's what 2.5-3.0 million per season? I think there is a time limit on this, but for argument sake say it is for 5 years.

Financially this now brings in more teams, but perhaps it brings in the Lightning, a Florida team. So now Panthers and Lightning are part of the discussions. Sure the Lightning just signed a hopeful Lindback, but Luongo is a known quantity.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...e-players.html

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In the context of Player Trades, participating Clubs will be permitted to allocate Cap charges and related salary payment obligations between them, subject to specified parameters. Specifically, Clubs may agree to retain, for each of the remaining years of the Player’s SPC, no more than the lesser of: (i) $3 million of a particular SPC’s Cap charge or (ii) 50 percent of the SPC’s AAV (“Retained Salary Transaction”). In any Retained Salary Transaction, salary obligations as between Clubs would be allocated on the same percentage basis as Cap charges are being allocated. So, for instance, if an assigning Club agrees to retain 30% of an SPC’s Cap charge over the balance of its term, it will also retain an obligation to reimburse the acquiring Club 30% of the Player’s contractual compensation in each of the remaining years of the contract. A Club may not have more than two (2) contracts as to which Cap charges have been allocated between Clubs in a Player Trade, and no more than $5 million in allocated Cap charges in the aggregate in any one season.

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10-22-2012, 09:03 AM
  #358
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If Burke trades Grabovski, our centres situation is beyond pathetic. Bozak, Connolly, McClement and Steckel. That doesn't even instill fear at the AHL level.
I agree. Unless Burke has another move for a Centre up his sleeve, Grabovski would be pretty much off limits.

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10-22-2012, 09:03 AM
  #359
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Might sense for them in the short term, but for us trading our best center is a bit daft. Grabo is also a bit pricey to be your third line center.
Think down the line, Burke is clearing the deck for Getzlaf, it's probably the worst kept secret in hockey he would dearly love to have Ryan in a Leafs uniform. Trading Grabo would clear up valuable cap space and it does help Vancouver this year, their cup window is passing in my opinion if they don't go for it now. We will see. This one has some legs to it. Burke is not trading Gardiner, Percy, Finn, 1sts, any of those assets for Lu. This we know.

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10-22-2012, 09:05 AM
  #360
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Think down the line, Burke is clearing the deck for Getzlaf, it's probably the worst kept secret in hockey he would dearly love to have Ryan in a Leafs uniform. Trading Grabo would clear up valuable cap space and it does help Vancouver this year, their cup window is passing in my opinion if they don't go for it now. We will see.
That's fine, if getting Getzlaf were a sure thing. Knowing this team's luck and history of being able to attract big-name free agents, especially under Burke's watch, we'd clear all the cap space in the world and Getzlaf would sign somewhere else. It would be a repeat of the fiasco that occurred when the Raptors were trying to align the stars to land Steve Nash. Who'd they get instead as a result? Landry Fields.

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10-22-2012, 09:06 AM
  #361
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I think Grabo makes more sense, 5.5M for 5.33M, a basic trade of contracts. Kesler is on the shelf till the new year, assuming we have hockey before then. It makes sense and wouldn't be shocking.

As for the Gardiner, Percy, 1st rd picks talk, it is too ridiculous to even address because that is not happening for Luongo.
I agree. Our 1C hole is a bigger problem then finding a proper 2nd line center. We have Connolly, Bozak, and Colborne who can play 2C. Our pressing need is goaltending and it would be nice to get rid of Grabo's contract.

If it has to be Bozak then I would expect other players/picks to go to Vancouver. Maybe not a 1st, but definitely a 2nd.

Bozak, Frattin, Blacker, and 2nd for Luongo (hopefully a new CBA where VAN eats his contract not TO). Of course if we are stuck with Lu's contract then much less.

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10-22-2012, 09:10 AM
  #362
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That's fine, if getting Getzlaf were a sure thing. Knowing this team's luck and history of being able to attract big-name free agents, especially under Burke's watch, we'd clear all the cap space in the world and Getzlaf would sign somewhere else. It would be a repeat of the fiasco that occurred when the Raptors were trying to align the stars to land Steve Nash. Who'd they get instead as a result? Landry Fields.
UFA's get offered the same money elsewhere and so it comes down to where they want to play.

Toronto usually is not one of the preferred destinations.

I doubt Getzlaf signs in Toronto. I'm guessing his next 5 year contract (max in CBA offer) is with a contender. If he likes living in Anaheim, it will probably be Anaheim or a top 5 team.

Toronto can't pay more than anyone else, which sucks since Leafs' attending fans pay more than everyone else.

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10-22-2012, 09:15 AM
  #363
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I agree. Our 1C hole is a bigger problem then finding a proper 2nd line center. We have Connolly, Bozak, and Colborne who can play 2C. Our pressing need is goaltending and it would be nice to get rid of Grabo's contract.

If it has to be Bozak then I would expect other players/picks to go to Vancouver. Maybe not a 1st, but definitely a 2nd.

Bozak, Frattin, Blacker, and 2nd for Luongo (hopefully a new CBA where VAN eats his contract not TO). Of course if we are stuck with Lu's contract then much less.
Would you prefer to give them a guaranteed 2nd. or a conditional 1st.

Condition is Leafs make playoffs. So the first would be 16th.-30th.

Leafs make playoffs but have a 2nd. and no 1st.
Leafs don't make playoffs have a 1st. and 2nd.

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10-22-2012, 09:15 AM
  #364
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That's fine, if getting Getzlaf were a sure thing. Knowing this team's luck and history of being able to attract big-name free agents, especially under Burke's watch, we'd clear all the cap space in the world and Getzlaf would sign somewhere else. It would be a repeat of the fiasco that occurred when the Raptors were trying to align the stars to land Steve Nash. Who'd they get instead as a result? Landry Fields.
I'm thinking more of a sign and trade, if Anaheim struggle this year, Murray will have to get assets back back for Getzlaf or risk double embaressment of the Schultz situation all over again. Murray and Burke already are good trade partners, it's going to be interesting in Feb if Anaheim is struggling and for Murray. This is when our assets come into play, if Getzlaf agrees to sign in Toronto with a trade, if he wants to go UFA under the new CBA, then this will be all moot. But given the new CBA is not looking promising for players. I believe a trade and sign is highly likely. Like I said Burke is in for a busy year. This is good for the Leafs.

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10-22-2012, 09:17 AM
  #365
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I agree. Our 1C hole is a bigger problem then finding a proper 2nd line center. We have Connolly, Bozak, and Colborne who can play 2C. Our pressing need is goaltending and it would be nice to get rid of Grabo's contract.

If it has to be Bozak then I would expect other players/picks to go to Vancouver. Maybe not a 1st, but definitely a 2nd.

Bozak, Frattin, Blacker, and 2nd for Luongo (hopefully a new CBA where VAN eats his contract not TO). Of course if we are stuck with Lu's contract then much less.
Gillis will have to deal Luongo this year, I don't see a better offer than Grabo if indeed it's Grabo from Florida. If it's Bozak then that's fine too, but The Nucks sure could have used a 3C last year in the playoffs, they missed Hodgson more than they thought they would.

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10-22-2012, 09:40 AM
  #366
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Think down the line, Burke is clearing the deck for Getzlaf, it's probably the worst kept secret in hockey he would dearly love to have Ryan in a Leafs uniform. Trading Grabo would clear up valuable cap space and it does help Vancouver this year, their cup window is passing in my opinion if they don't go for it now. We will see. This one has some legs to it. Burke is not trading Gardiner, Percy, Finn, 1sts, any of those assets for Lu. This we know.
Simce there is no garuntee we will get Getz trading our best center hoping we will get him is beyond stupid. Not to mention, we have more than enough coming off the books to pay for a player like that should he choose to come here.

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10-22-2012, 09:48 AM
  #367
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Lou is being run out of Vancouver - lost his job to a Rookie lol
Phil was deemed expendable in Boston
Dion was run out of Calgary
Lupul was throw out like trash in Anaheim
Lombradi was thrown out of Nashville

It goes on and on and on and on.

This team is a complete joke - the only thing that makes it somewhat salvagable are the small group of assets it currently has in the cupboards (Gardners/Kadris/Reilly's/upcoming 1st Round Picks) And ya'll are interested in giving that up now too?

When will you people ever learn ... those that don't learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
Raycroft for Rask
Toskala for Couture
Kessel for Seguin/Hamilton/Knight

The insanity has got to stop. If Burke gives up anything more than Tyler Bozak + a Salary Dump this will be an enormous failure.

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10-22-2012, 09:49 AM
  #368
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Think down the line, Burke is clearing the deck for Getzlaf, it's probably the worst kept secret in hockey he would dearly love to have Ryan in a Leafs uniform.
If 12 months from now, this team has BOTH Getzlaf and Luongo... the team would be a vastly vastly superior team to what exists today.

Oh to dream. That's where I hesitate with Luongo though. Because without the Getzlaf signing, even with Luongo, we're not at all close to contention. So I don't know if I'd want to trade for him, prefer to go with youth. But if we could get Getzlaf... then adding Luongo would make this team a pretty solid team.

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10-22-2012, 09:59 AM
  #369
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Would you prefer to give them a guaranteed 2nd. or a conditional 1st.

Condition is Leafs make playoffs. So the first would be 16th.-30th.

Leafs make playoffs but have a 2nd. and no 1st.
Leafs don't make playoffs have a 1st. and 2nd.
I don't mind that idea. It's a pretty good option.

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10-22-2012, 10:03 AM
  #370
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I agree. Our 1C hole is a bigger problem then finding a proper 2nd line center. We have Connolly, Bozak, and Colborne who can play 2C. Our pressing need is goaltending and it would be nice to get rid of Grabo's contract.

If it has to be Bozak then I would expect other players/picks to go to Vancouver. Maybe not a 1st, but definitely a 2nd.

Bozak, Frattin, Blacker, and 2nd for Luongo (hopefully a new CBA where VAN eats his contract not TO). Of course if we are stuck with Lu's contract then much less.
Why do we need to fid a 'proper 2nd line center' when we already have one? Grabo is one of the only right things in our roster. He's a keeper on every level.

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10-22-2012, 10:11 AM
  #371
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We don't know what the rules of the market are going to be.

What if the Canucks pick up max cap exchange, under the new rules it's what 2.5-3.0 million per season? I think there is a time limit on this, but for argument sake say it is for 5 years.

Financially this now brings in more teams, but perhaps it brings in the Lightning, a Florida team. So now Panthers and Lightning are part of the discussions. Sure the Lightning just signed a hopeful Lindback, but Luongo is a known quantity.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...e-players.html
There's still a lot of uncertainty. I'm speaking in terms of present conditions. All else being equal, as things currently stand, the market does not dictate a top prospect + a 1st.

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10-22-2012, 10:23 AM
  #372
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Lou is being run out of Vancouver - lost his job to a Rookie lol
Phil was deemed expendable in Boston
Dion was run out of Calgary
Lupul was throw out like trash in Anaheim
Lombradi was thrown out of Nashville

It goes on and on and on and on.

This team is a complete joke - the only thing that makes it somewhat salvagable are the small group of assets it currently has in the cupboards (Gardners/Kadris/Reilly's/upcoming 1st Round Picks) And ya'll are interested in giving that up now too?

When will you people ever learn ... those that don't learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
Raycroft for Rask
Toskala for Couture
Kessel for Seguin/Hamilton/Knight

The insanity has got to stop. If Burke gives up anything more than Tyler Bozak + a Salary Dump this will be an enormous failure.
What's wrong with Lupul, Kessel and Phaneuf?

San Jose also never got Couture with our pick, St. Louis picked Lars Eller with it.

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10-22-2012, 10:49 AM
  #373
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If 12 months from now, this team has BOTH Getzlaf and Luongo... the team would be a vastly vastly superior team to what exists today.

Oh to dream. That's where I hesitate with Luongo though. Because without the Getzlaf signing, even with Luongo, we're not at all close to contention. So I don't know if I'd want to trade for him, prefer to go with youth. But if we could get Getzlaf... then adding Luongo would make this team a pretty solid team.
That is the hope Leafer, Burke doesn't want a 5 year rebuild, we are already in year 4 and 5 of his term. If we can get Luongo and deal for Getzlaf and Perry, this thing is looking far better than at the start of the year. Unfortunately it will probably cost us some of our A prospects that we are growing attached to to do so, plus some core roster players.

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10-22-2012, 10:57 AM
  #374
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Lou is being run out of Vancouver - lost his job to a Rookie lol
Phil was deemed expendable in Boston
Dion was run out of Calgary
Lupul was throw out like trash in Anaheim
Lombradi was thrown out of Nashville

It goes on and on and on and on.

This team is a complete joke - the only thing that makes it somewhat salvagable are the small group of assets it currently has in the cupboards (Gardners/Kadris/Reilly's/upcoming 1st Round Picks) And ya'll are interested in giving that up now too?

When will you people ever learn ... those that don't learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
Raycroft for Rask
Toskala for Couture
Kessel for Seguin/Hamilton/Knight

The insanity has got to stop. If Burke gives up anything more than Tyler Bozak + a Salary Dump this will be an enormous failure.
Phil Kessel just scored 82 points and finished 6th in scoring last year, while also putting up 37 goals. Has been an All-star two straight seasons.

Dion Phaneuf played over 25 minutes per game and scored 42 points from the point last season while captaining the team and playing in the All-star game.

Lupul scored 67 points in 66 games and was an All-star.

The Raycroft and Toskala deals were both done by JFJ, not Brian Burke.

Trading 2 firsts and a second round pick for a 21 year old, former top 5 pick who was coming off a 36 goal season is not a bad deal. However, the Leafs placed poorly and in turn those picks turned out to be very high. We NEVER traded Seguin, Hamilton and Knight, those are the selections that Boston made with the picks received for Kessel. Just like JFJ didn't trade Couture, but instead the pick used to select said player.

Your argument is full of flawed logic and delusional, uninformed examples. Our roster and prospect pool from the time that Brian Burke arrived has massively improved to where we are today. We are missing a #1 goalie and #1 center, but the acquisitions of Phaneuf, Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, JvR, Colborne and the selections of Rielly, Finn, Percy, Biggs and Kadri have set us up nicely for the future. If Burke can address the goalie issue externally there will be much more certainty going forward.

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10-22-2012, 11:20 AM
  #375
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Why do we need to fid a 'proper 2nd line center' when we already have one? Grabo is one of the only right things in our roster. He's a keeper on every level.
Because you don't build a team around a 2nd line center.

Grabo is only a part. He is not a centerpiece.

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