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Old
10-22-2012, 11:30 AM
  #376
Chandrashekhar Limit
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Because you don't build a team around a 2nd line center.

Grabo is only a part. He is not a centerpiece.


Great logic there buddy. The one thing we have is a great 2nd line center. But since we don't build teams around them, we should just deal him?

Why don't other teams follow this genius idea? All teams should just deal their 2nd line centers to fill their other needs.

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10-22-2012, 11:42 AM
  #377
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Leafs + Luongo makes the team vastly superior to the one we have today. No more going down 2 - 0 in the first few minutes of the game and no more blowing leads like its the Buds' job (as often). Still, the Leafs cannot afford to trade what Canucks fans would like, certainly not a 1st round pick (unless it is conditional) and definitely not our most promising prospects.

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10-22-2012, 11:43 AM
  #378
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Leafs fans have to realize in order to improve the team, we are going to have to trade players that may be favorites of ours.

You can't make a steak with hamburger analogy in full force.

I love Finn or Percy, but am prepared if this gets us a Big #1C that we can sign for the next 5+ years and beyond, you do it.

Grabo is a secondary part that Vancouver could use if he is what Vancouver wants and will accept in a trade for Luongo and given that there is little market for him at the moment. It's a no brainer for Leafs nation given the problems this team has had in the net since Belfour was between the pipes.

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10-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Lou is being run out of Vancouver - lost his job to a Rookie lol
Phil was deemed expendable in Boston
Dion was run out of Calgary
Lupul was throw out like trash in Anaheim
Lombradi was thrown out of Nashville

It goes on and on and on and on.

This team is a complete joke - the only thing that makes it somewhat salvagable are the small group of assets it currently has in the cupboards (Gardners/Kadris/Reilly's/upcoming 1st Round Picks) And ya'll are interested in giving that up now too?

When will you people ever learn ... those that don't learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
Raycroft for Rask
Toskala for Couture
Kessel for Seguin/Hamilton/Knight

The insanity has got to stop. If Burke gives up anything more than Tyler Bozak + a Salary Dump this will be an enormous failure.


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10-22-2012, 11:52 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Phil Kessel just scored 82 points and finished 6th in scoring last year, while also putting up 37 goals. Has been an All-star two straight seasons.

Dion Phaneuf played over 25 minutes per game and scored 42 points from the point last season while captaining the team and playing in the All-star game.

Lupul scored 67 points in 66 games and was an All-star.

The Raycroft and Toskala deals were both done by JFJ, not Brian Burke.

Trading 2 firsts and a second round pick for a 21 year old, former top 5 pick who was coming off a 36 goal season is not a bad deal. However, the Leafs placed poorly and in turn those picks turned out to be very high. We NEVER traded Seguin, Hamilton and Knight, those are the selections that Boston made with the picks received for Kessel. Just like JFJ didn't trade Couture, but instead the pick used to select said player.

Your argument is full of flawed logic and delusional, uninformed examples. Our roster and prospect pool from the time that Brian Burke arrived has massively improved to where we are today. We are missing a #1 goalie and #1 center, but the acquisitions of Phaneuf, Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, JvR, Colborne and the selections of Rielly, Finn, Percy, Biggs and Kadri have set us up nicely for the future. If Burke can address the goalie issue externally there will be much more certainty going forward.


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10-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Phil Kessel just scored 82 points and finished 6th in scoring last year, while also putting up 37 goals. Has been an All-star two straight seasons.

Dion Phaneuf played over 25 minutes per game and scored 42 points from the point last season while captaining the team and playing in the All-star game.

Lupul scored 67 points in 66 games and was an All-star.

The Raycroft and Toskala deals were both done by JFJ, not Brian Burke.

Trading 2 firsts and a second round pick for a 21 year old, former top 5 pick who was coming off a 36 goal season is not a bad deal. However, the Leafs placed poorly and in turn those picks turned out to be very high. We NEVER traded Seguin, Hamilton and Knight, those are the selections that Boston made with the picks received for Kessel. Just like JFJ didn't trade Couture, but instead the pick used to select said player.

Your argument is full of flawed logic and delusional, uninformed examples. Our roster and prospect pool from the time that Brian Burke arrived has massively improved to where we are today. We are missing a #1 goalie and #1 center, but the acquisitions of Phaneuf, Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, JvR, Colborne and the selections of Rielly, Finn, Percy, Biggs and Kadri have set us up nicely for the future. If Burke can address the goalie issue externally there will be much more certainty going forward.
Winning

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10-22-2012, 12:02 PM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Because you don't build a team around a 2nd line center.

Grabo is only a part. He is not a centerpiece.


While that is true with respect to Grabo, I think people get too caught up in 1st line and 2nd line classifications. Think about it this way - Messier was a 2nd line center the entire time Gretzky was in Edmonton and Malkin plays behind Crosby now. Or look at the 1987 Canada Cup team - Gretzky and Lemieux often played on the wings because they had other guys to play center. Sometimes it can just be about chemistry between players or having someone even better on the same team, but that does not mean that the person playing on the 2nd line isn't a superstar or wouldn't be considered a 1st line player almost anywhere else in the league.

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10-22-2012, 12:23 PM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Lou is being run out of Vancouver - lost his job to a Rookie lol
Phil was deemed expendable in Boston
Dion was run out of Calgary
Lupul was throw out like trash in Anaheim
Lombradi was thrown out of Nashville

It goes on and on and on and on.

This team is a complete joke - the only thing that makes it somewhat salvagable are the small group of assets it currently has in the cupboards (Gardners/Kadris/Reilly's/upcoming 1st Round Picks) And ya'll are interested in giving that up now too?

When will you people ever learn ... those that don't learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
Raycroft for Rask
Toskala for Couture
Kessel for Seguin/Hamilton/Knight

The insanity has got to stop. If Burke gives up anything more than Tyler Bozak + a Salary Dump this will be an enormous failure.
Your right, getting Dion, and Lupul was just stupid, when will we ever learn....

If we can take anything from the past it's that Burke can trade spare parts for solid players, maybe it's you who needs to learn from the past. If you are implying that every time a young player has been traded for a proven Vet it has been a bad move for the team giving up youth, you simply have no idea about the history of trading in the NHL. If you are going on about Fergie's trades....pretty irrelivant.

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:54 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Leafs fans have to realize in order to improve the team, we are going to have to trade players that may be favorites of ours.

You can't make a steak with hamburger analogy in full force.

I love Finn or Percy, but am prepared if this gets us a Big #1C that we can sign for the next 5+ years and beyond, you do it.

Grabo is a secondary part that Vancouver could use if he is what Vancouver wants and will accept in a trade for Luongo and given that there is little market for him at the moment. It's a no brainer for Leafs nation given the problems this team has had in the net since Belfour was between the pipes.
Agreed for a #1C. Can't see Grabo getting moved for a Goalie, he's too important.

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10-22-2012, 01:19 PM
  #385
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Getzlaf was one of the most underwhelming centres in the league the last few years (and at the worlds), what makes everyone think that he will be an elite centre on the Leafs? I'm hoping Burke doesn't have to give up the farm for Getzlaf, or what would be better is offering conditional 1st round picks based on his future performance.


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10-22-2012, 01:29 PM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Agreed for a #1C. Can't see Grabo getting moved for a Goalie, he's too important.
If Vancouver's demands are reasonable, given that the market on Luongo is a soft one. Trading a #2C on this team for a #1G would be a win for the Leafs. #1G trumps #2C on this current Leafs team.

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10-22-2012, 01:30 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
If Vancouver's demands are reasonable, given that the market on Luongo is a soft one. Trading a #2C on this team for a #1G would be a win for the Leafs. #1G trumps #2C on this current Leafs team.
Overpayment if the market is soft. Two steps forward, one step back.

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10-22-2012, 01:32 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by dougieg93 View Post
Getzlaf was one of the most underwhelming centres in the league the last few years (and at the worlds), what makes everyone think that he will be an elite centre on the Leafs? I'm hoping Burke doesn't have to give up the farm for Getzlaf, or what would be better is offering conditional 1st round picks based on his future performance.
Change of scemary for one, he may have been stale in Anaheim as Luongo is in Vancouver, or as Lupul and Phaneuf were in Anaheim and Calgary also. If Ryan was overwhelming the past season, he's not even up for discussion right now. Burke knows this player, he has bet and won on lesser.

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10-22-2012, 01:34 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Overpayment if the market is soft. Two steps forward, one step back.
That's where we differ, we shed 5.5 and get a #1G, a first since Belfour and before that Cujo. You can't win without goaltending period in the NHL or any league. Fact that Gillis is backed into a corner works to our favour. A #2C or #3C on Vancouver is an underpayment Gillis may be forced into.

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10-22-2012, 01:36 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
That's where we differ, we shed 5.5 and get a #1G, a first since Belfour and before that Cujo. You can't win without goaltending period in the NHL or any league. Fact that Gillis is backed into a corner works to our favour. A #2C or #3C on Vancouver is an underpayment Gillis may be forced into.
When someone is backed into a corner you take advantage of it, not give up your best Centre.

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10-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
When someone is backed into a corner you take advantage of it, not give up your best Centre.
If he is a franchise center we need, or even a good #1C, then no. But he isn't either of those things and thus expendable for a positional need that is the cornerstone of any franchise that wants to turnaround.

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10-22-2012, 01:48 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Leafs + Luongo makes the team vastly superior to the one we have today. No more going down 2 - 0 in the first few minutes of the game and no more blowing leads like its the Buds' job (as often). Still, the Leafs cannot afford to trade what Canucks fans would like, certainly not a 1st round pick (unless it is conditional) and definitely not our most promising prospects.
Vastly superior? lol He'll fall victim to the same team defensive lapses like any other of our goalies. I will admit that Schenn is gone, but we still have a somewhat weak defense according to our record the last few years. It would be a pleasant surprise if Carlyle can tighten up our defense as a team!

The pressure on Lu in Toronto will be far greater than in Vancouver. He might just wilt under it! He could not take a VASTLY superior team in Vancouver to the promised land! What make anyone think he'll do it with an inferior Leaf team?

Just say NO to Luongo and his wretched contract unless all we give up for him is our trash! Even if all we give up is our garbage, that contract will be an albatross around our GM's neck for years to come!

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10-22-2012, 01:56 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
If he is a franchise center we need, or even a good #1C, then no. But he isn't either of those things and thus expendable for a positional need that is the cornerstone of any franchise that wants to turnaround.
A player isn't expendable when you have no one to fill his spot.
Bozak is expendable.

What is the point of overpaying for an asset when nothing dictates that it's necessary to?

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10-22-2012, 02:05 PM
  #394
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Sounds like Kadri's on his way out of Toronto...I would not at all be surprised to see him involved in a Luongo package.

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10-22-2012, 02:09 PM
  #395
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A player isn't expendable when you have no one to fill his spot.
Bozak is expendable.

What is the point of overpaying for an asset when nothing dictates that it's necessary to?
Most would not consider a #2C, a #3C on Vancouver an overpayment for a #1G. Leafs may need cap room for later deals that will fill the top 6 void, that's the difference between Bozak and keeping Grabo. Burke is going to turnover this team to make it a winner, no one including Kessel is safe on this team if he can get players that will improve this team. They are all chess pieces to an end.

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10-22-2012, 02:10 PM
  #396
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Sounds like Kadri's on his way out of Toronto...I would not at all be surprised to see him involved in a Luongo package.
Dreaming.
0 Chance Kadri is heading to europe.
What you see there is our ****** media others were telling you about.

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10-22-2012, 02:15 PM
  #397
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Sounds like Kadri's on his way out of Toronto...I would not at all be surprised to see him involved in a Luongo package.
If Kadri does get traded to Vancouver, I can imagine him tearing it up in Vancouver.

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10-22-2012, 02:20 PM
  #398
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If Kadri does get traded to Vancouver, I can imagine him tearing it up in Vancouver.
We'll see. Kadri would be ideally suited for our 2nd line, as a playmaker playing with Kesler and Booth, but Vigneault can be really tough on rookies in making them earn their minutes, but hopefully he does well wherever he ends up.

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10-22-2012, 02:23 PM
  #399
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We'll see. Kadri would be ideally suited for our 2nd line, as a playmaker playing with Kesler and Booth, but Vigneault can be really tough on rookies in making them earn their minutes, but hopefully he does well wherever he ends up.
We'll give you Kadri for Kassian. Or it's no deal.

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10-22-2012, 02:24 PM
  #400
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Vastly superior? lol He'll fall victim to the same team defensive lapses like any other of our goalies. I will admit that Schenn is gone, but we still have a somewhat weak defense according to our record the last few years. It would be a pleasant surprise if Carlyle can tighten up our defense as a team!

The pressure on Lu in Toronto will be far greater than in Vancouver. He might just wilt under it! He could not take a VASTLY superior team in Vancouver to the promised land! What make anyone think he'll do it with an inferior Leaf team?

Just say NO to Luongo and his wretched contract unless all we give up for him is our trash! Even if all we give up is our garbage, that contract will be an albatross around our GM's neck for years to come!
Only one team can win, unfortunately for Lu it wasn't his team. Arguing against Luongo because he couldn't win a Cup with with Vancouver is ****ing' retarded, I'm sorry but it is. And I feel indifferent about acquiring him.

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