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The Luongo Thread [Mod Warning in OP]

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10-23-2012, 12:21 PM
  #801
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
What do leafs fans think about something like

Kadri + Biggs + Ashton?

While it is 3 young players, it doesn't detract from the current Leafs roster at all.

They add an all star goalie without having any impact on their opening day roster.

The deal obviously centers around Kadri, and sends 2 "2nd tier" prospects to Vancouver.
The issue from the Leafs perspective is that we need to get rid of some salary, in order to take on Luongo's. Lombardi or Connolly would have to be thrown in. Kadri, Ashton and one of the two mentioned already gets it done from the Leafs side.

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10-23-2012, 12:22 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Kadri would be behind Kassian and Jensen for sure. And I would probably put him around Schroeder level.

Ashton and Biggs don't project as top 6 forwards. Both are nice complementary pieces to a trade though.
D'Amigo > Schroeder.
Kadri > D'Amigo.

Therefore, it's impossible that Kadri = Schroeder.

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10-23-2012, 12:24 PM
  #803
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Not really.

I'd rather have a 0.915 SV% guy in net and 7M+ to spend on the roster than have a 5M backup. You're not kidding anybody, Schneider is your #1 guy. Don't pretend that Luongo is the starter and Schneider will start on the bench.
Except Reimer isn't a 0.915 SV% guy. He put up 0.900 last season. With Luongo's worst season at 0.913 you're pretty much guaranteed to have that guy you would hope Reimer to be. Having that as an insurance policy is worth a lot more than some spare parts. And we would definitely roll with a 1A/1B goalie tandem; not an outlandish concept in the least.

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:24 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Colbourne and 1st is a good starting point, but franson makes no sense.
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Franson is useless to us. He is no better than Ballard or Tanev and therefore will not crack our lineup. Meanwhile, Colborne has been underwhelming. From Toronto's prospect pull I would only be interested in Kadri. Swap Franson for MacArthur or Kulemin and while not being ideal, means something.
I tend to disagree. I think we have a problem when it comes to our PP. We have no genuine PP QB since the departure of Ehrhoff. Edler is not that guy. Don't get me wrong, I think he's an excellent d-man and his shot justifies his inclusion on the 1st PP. However, he is relatively slow to wind up and move the puck, and isn't as good of a decision maker as Ehrhoff was on the PP. Garrison is not that guy either.

Now, my viewings of Franson are admittedly limited to the 6 game Preds series in '11 and about 3 TO games last year, but I think he has more ability to QB the PP than Edler or Garrison. He may not crack the line-up, but if he impresses, you could make a case for dropping Ballard and going with 3 genuine RD. Run Franson/Edler and Garrison/Bieksa as the PP d-men.

Re: Colborne/Kadri, I think Colborne better fits Gillis's current big-bodied centreman trend, whereas Kadri may find more NHL success as a winger (as mentioned by some leaf fans in this thread). We are absolutely flush 2nd/3rd line wingers, but lack a genuine blue chip centre prospect and a 3C. Kadri has shown a bit more at the NHL level, but the sample size is so very small for both of them. Plus I am fairly certain that Colborne was carrying an injury last year during his NHL time. Can't be bothered sourcing that, although I know i've read it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
To be honest, MacArthur is a better fit than Franson. Can play second or third line, provides secondary offence, has grit, heart and will fight. I think that is exactly what the Canucks need right now.
MacArthur is the other option. However I don't see him cracking the 2nd line ahead of Booth/Higgins. Cap may be an issue depending on the CBA, so i'm not sure 3.25 on the 3rd line would work.

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10-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Not really.

I'd rather have a 0.915 SV% guy in net and 7M+ to spend on the roster than have a 5M backup. You're not kidding anybody, Schneider is your #1 guy. Don't pretend that Luongo is the starter and Schneider will start on the bench.
So if the hockey season started tomorrow, and Lu started game 1 does that make him the starter?

Its a 1A/1A situation.. Not even 1A/1B. Will one of them get more games? Yeah, but it will probably be fairly marginal.

Also, how do you plan to fill that 5 million with quality players? Free agency is done.. With the exception of Lu we dont have many exoendae assets to trade for a quality player to occupy that cap space.

Its dead space unless you magically land a quality player.

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10-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #806
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Gardiner and/or their 1st are the best the Leafs assets IMO. Anything else is less to those.


I fear the Leafs will eventually be taken out of the equation. They simply don't have the assets to give. And as for dance partners, that's entirely up to Lu. EDM, CLB and CHI have shown interest. It's up to Lu to decide how willing he is to go to these destinations. Time will tell.



Essentially, TO makes a good partner based on need, but not on asset availability. Others make for good partners because they can give up assets and they have a need, but are VAN rivals or in the case of CLB, non-traditional destinations. If I had a choice, the rivals/NT destination teams are far preferrable as long as the asset value is met... Which is something TO cannot do.
That all depends on how Canucks management views the potential dealing of Luongo. Do they deal him for players that will have an impact asap or try and clear the cap space and bring in picks and recently drafted prospects? I'm sure it's the former but who honestly knows what they're thinking. I know Gillis wanted Gardiner, and I don't blame him, but I can't see Burke giving up his shiny new toy for an older new toy. Leafs fans are already 50/50 on the idea of Luongo, imagine the backlash if Burke dealt Gardiner?

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10-23-2012, 12:26 PM
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
D'Amigo > Schroeder.
Kadri > D'Amigo.

Therefore, it's impossible that Kadri = Schroeder.
Schroeder and D'Amigo put up similar production. Schroeder did it on a less skilled team. Schroeder is a center.

Schroeder>D'Amigo

although I would agree that Kadri>Schroeder

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10-23-2012, 12:28 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
The issue from the Leafs perspective is that we need to get rid of some salary, in order to take on Luongo's. Lombardi or Connolly would have to be thrown in. Kadri, Ashton and one of the two mentioned already gets it done from the Leafs side.
I would be fine doing
Connolly, Kadri, Biggs Ashton for Luongo.

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10-23-2012, 12:28 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
Except Reimer isn't a 0.915 SV% guy. He put up 0.900 last season. With Luongo's worst season at 0.913 you're pretty much guaranteed to have that guy you would hope Reimer to be. Having that as an insurance policy is worth a lot more than some spare parts. And we would definitely roll with a 1A/1B goalie tandem; not an outlandish concept in the least.
Huh? Reimer has a career .911 SV% and was around the .925 mark(can't remember the exact number) before Gionta ran him and gave him a concussion. Post-concussion he fell off the map and was clearly not the same. Calling him a .900 goalie, which is that of an average backup is simply not true.

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:29 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Probably something close to what Tampa gave up for Anders Lindback.

Lindback has very high upside and is 8 years younger than Lu.
So would you say Lindback is an upgrade on Reimer?

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10-23-2012, 12:29 PM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
The issue from the Leafs perspective is that we need to get rid of some salary, in order to take on Luongo's. Lombardi or Connolly would have to be thrown in. Kadri, Ashton and one of the two mentioned already gets it done from the Leafs side.
how so?
http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/
unless im reading this wrong, you have $6.7M in cap space with a 22 man roster currently.

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10-23-2012, 12:31 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Silly question.
Acually I would say its a pretty good question when trying to address value.

I mean what kind of goalie would Ashton + 2nd land? Niemi? Maybe Anderson?

Very average - low end starters.

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10-23-2012, 12:32 PM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
Schroeder and D'Amigo put up similar production. Schroeder did it on a less skilled team. Schroeder is a center.

Schroeder>D'Amigo

although I would agree that Kadri>Schroeder
D'Amigo was a star in the playoffs at the age of 21.

13 points in 17 games and a +12.

Stud.

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:33 PM
  #814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
So would you say Lindback is an upgrade on Reimer?
What does compensation for Lindback have to do with Reimer?

He asked what Carter Ashton + 2nd is equivalent to.

Lindback got Nashville two 2nd rounders. Which is equivalent to Ashton + 2nd.

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:34 PM
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I would be fine doing
Connolly, Kadri, Biggs Ashton for Luongo.
You can have...

Ashton + D'Amigo + 2nd rounder for Luongo.

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10-23-2012, 12:35 PM
  #816
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Huh? Reimer has a career .911 SV% and was around the .925 mark(can't remember the exact number) before Gionta ran him and gave him a concussion. Post-concussion he fell off the map and was clearly not the same. Calling him a .900 goalie, which is that of an average backup is simply not true.
The point is that Reimer's caliber as a goalie is really up in the air right now. Do you get last season's 0.900 or can he regain and maintain his 0.920 form? How much is his drop in play attributable to the injury and how much to players getting better at exploiting his weak spots/figuring out the book on Reimer?

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10-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #817
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how so?
http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/
unless im reading this wrong, you have $6.7M in cap space with a 22 man roster currently.
The Leafs don't need to add any contracts but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lombardi or Connolly involved to simply balance it out. Seems to be the way the NHL works nowadays, much like the NBA. Cap space is valuable whether it's for today or for a year from now. Considering the potential free agent crop next summer, cap space will be at a premium. Not that we have that many players signed anyway.

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10-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
The point is that Reimer's caliber as a goalie is really up in the air right now. Do you get last season's 0.900 or can he regain and maintain his 0.920 form? How much is his drop in play attributable to the injury and how much to players getting better at exploiting his weak spots/figuring out the book on Reimer?
I'm pretty sure the concussion/neck problem had a lot to do with his .900% season.

I have no issues at all with going into the season with Reimer and Scrivens. At all.

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10-23-2012, 12:38 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
The Leafs don't need to add any contracts but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lombardi or Connolly involved to simply balance it out. Seems to be the way the NHL works nowadays, much like the NBA. Cap space is valuable whether it's for today or for a year from now. Considering the potential free agent crop next summer, cap space will be at a premium. Not that we have that many players signed anyway.
right
he had said they need to clear salary, so i took that another way

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10-23-2012, 12:39 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
What does compensation for Lindback have to do with Reimer?

He asked what Carter Ashton + 2nd is equivalent to.

Lindback got Nashville two 2nd rounders. Which is equivalent to Ashton + 2nd.
Because, Toronto is obviously looking to improve their goaltending.

Offers such as "Ashton + 2nd" fetch goalies of Lindback calibers.

Is Lindback better than Reimer? I wouldnt say so.

Therefore if you want to improve your goaltending, its going to cost more than "Ashton + 2nd"

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10-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Acually I would say its a pretty good question when trying to address value.

I mean what kind of goalie would Ashton + 2nd land? Niemi? Maybe Anderson?

Very average - low end starters.
Their values have nothing to do with Luongo's value.

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10-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
The point is that Reimer's caliber as a goalie is really up in the air right now. Do you get last season's 0.900 or can he regain and maintain his 0.920 form? How much is his drop in play attributable to the injury and how much to players getting better at exploiting his weak spots/figuring out the book on Reimer?
You're asking a question that cannot be answered, which doesn't make it a good question. All we know is that before his injury he was great and after it he wasn't. Coincidence? probably not.

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10-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Because, Toronto is obviously looking to improve their goaltending.

Offers such as "Ashton + 2nd" fetch goalies of Lindback calibers.

Is Lindback better than Reimer? I wouldnt say so.

Therefore if you want to improve your goaltending, its going to cost more than "Ashton + 2nd"
I'd rather have...

- Lindback
- Save 3.5M cap space
- Keep Kadri

... than have Luongo.

That's what it boils down to.

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10-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #824
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Except he wouldn't be our #2 goalie. It's funny how a Toronto fan somehow knows more about the Canucks than Vancouver fans
Not really... you keep ignoring things like how Luongo has stated he wants out, the coach has stated he wants out, the GM has stated he wants out, the media distraction all year of this PR disaster if he isn't traded, the real dollars he's owed to play 40~ games at the most, the ego hit a top goalie takes playing that few games because of a 26 year old with minimal games played just to name a few things

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10-23-2012, 12:44 PM
  #825
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a different perspective, for fun ... (since im not sure this has been raised in the thousands of threads on this topic)
how many here play fantasy hockey? Most, im betting.
In those leagues, our allegiances are levelled (somewhat) ... when drafting goalies, where does/has Luongo go/gone in your leagues? and relative to Lindback, etc?
I bet the order is Lundy, Quick, then any mix of Rinne, Fleury, Miller, Price, w Luongo in there .... he's in that tier
Dobber has him at #10, Lindback #21 and Reimer #30
http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index...id=26:rankings
...anyway, just one source

but you can imagine a gm holding an asset like that will do all he can not to sell him cheaply, esp when it might be the single most significant move he can make to put his team over the top

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