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The Luongo Thread [Mod Warning in OP]

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:47 PM
  #826
King William
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
a different perspective, for fun ... (since im not sure this has been raised in the thousands of threads on this topic)
how many here play fantasy hockey? Most, im betting.
In those leagues, our allegiances are levelled (somewhat) ... when drafting goalies, where does/has Luongo go/gone in your leagues? and relative to Lindback, etc?
I bet the order is Lundy, Quick, then any mix of Rinne, Fleury, Miller, Price, w Luongo in there .... he's in that tier
Dobber has him at #10, Lindback #21 and Reimer #30
...anyway, just one source

but you can imagine a gm holding an asset like that will do all he can not to sell him cheaply, esp when it might be the single most significant move he can make to put his team over the top
I wonder where Mike Smith was ranked at the start of last season...

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:48 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
You're asking a question that cannot be answered, which doesn't make it a good question. All we know is that before his injury he was great and after it he wasn't. Coincidence? probably not.
That alone proves my point of his level of play being up in the air.

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10-23-2012, 12:49 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I would be fine doing
Connolly, Kadri, Biggs Ashton for Luongo.
I'm a Jets fan, and this seems pretty ridiculous if you think Luongo contract is going to get you a kick-ass return like that.

If I were the Leafs you wouldn't get Kadri straight across for him, let alone adding a dude like Biggs (who Burke traded UP specifically so he could take him), and then another pretty decent prospect in Ashton.

Good luck with that.

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:50 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
I wonder where Mike Smith was ranked at the start of last season...
good question
but then again he didnt have 700+ games w .920 sv % etc ... i actaully think Luo's a bit low on this rank. I'd put him ahead of Ward, rask and Howard ...but they're all younger

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:53 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Their values have nothing to do with Luongo's value.
Their values are independant of Luongos.

But its the old saying "you get what you pay for".

Ashton + 2nd is probably lindback territory. Not Luongo territory.

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10-23-2012, 12:54 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
I wonder where Mike Smith was ranked at the start of last season...
That's the thing with Lu, you know he'll be 3-10 in any given season. You guys know he was a Vezina finalist in 2011, right?

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:57 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Their values are independant of Luongos.

But its the old saying "you get what you pay for".

Ashton + 2nd is probably lindback territory. Not Luongo territory.
What's being paid for is an older Goalie on a bad contract that is being run out of town.

There isn't a Goalie in that "territory" which is why it's silly to compare.

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:58 PM
  #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
I'd rather have...

- Lindback
- Save 3.5M cap space
- Keep Kadri

... than have Luongo.

That's what it boils down to.
Fair enough.

I can understand people who dont want to give valuable assets to Luongo, or essentially pay market price.

Good players dont come cheap.

Its more the lowball offers that get annoying (I mean every time someone says "Ashton and macArthur Y2KCanuck just makes some ridiculous Gardiner + JVR counter).

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:59 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Based on what? I'm dying to know why Kadri is seen as this B level prospect. It makes no sense. He's scored at every level.
His development has slowed. Jensen, while a somewhat obscure prospect, has progressed quite well and Kassian is already in the NHL, although he might need a little more conditioning. I do not Kadri has a bust by any means but he is not as high valued at this time. I would say he is closer to Jensen myself though.

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I tend to disagree. I think we have a problem when it comes to our PP. We have no genuine PP QB since the departure of Ehrhoff. Edler is not that guy. Don't get me wrong, I think he's an excellent d-man and his shot justifies his inclusion on the 1st PP. However, he is relatively slow to wind up and move the puck, and isn't as good of a decision maker as Ehrhoff was on the PP. Garrison is not that guy either.

Now, my viewings of Franson are admittedly limited to the 6 game Preds series in '11 and about 3 TO games last year, but I think he has more ability to QB the PP than Edler or Garrison. He may not crack the line-up, but if he impresses, you could make a case for dropping Ballard and going with 3 genuine RD. Run Franson/Edler and Garrison/Bieksa as the PP d-men.

Re: Colborne/Kadri, I think Colborne better fits Gillis's current big-bodied centreman trend, whereas Kadri may find more NHL success as a winger (as mentioned by some leaf fans in this thread). We are absolutely flush 2nd/3rd line wingers, but lack a genuine blue chip centre prospect and a 3C. Kadri has shown a bit more at the NHL level, but the sample size is so very small for both of them. Plus I am fairly certain that Colborne was carrying an injury last year during his NHL time. Can't be bothered sourcing that, although I know i've read it.
I had a similar belief when he played with Nashville and actually wished to acquire him for the Habs. Unfortunately, he has ended up a bust by all indication. Franson is woefully inconsistent scoring and even his height has never been underwhelming. He may be of some use as a powerplay specialist but I would certainly rather give that role to Garrison or even continue the Hamhuis experiment. He managed to break our dreadful powerplay against the Kings.

Considering the style we employ is to run a single unit for nearly the full two minutes. Franson would only have an opportunity if Garrison or Hamhuis failed or the rare occasion they were overextended.

While I am not necessarily against Franson coming here. His value is absolutely zero to us. I would rather retain Ballard, who I find a superior player. Short of that, just pick up a rental at the deadline. Gillis has fished out some great additions by buying low.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:01 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
What's being paid for is an older Goalie on a bad contract that is being run out of town.

There isn't a Goalie in that "territory" which is why it's silly to compare.
So your telling me, Steve Yzerman acquires Anders Lindback, yet he could have traded a 2nd and Carter Ashton (lets pretend hes still a Bolt) for Luongo?

You ever think maybe hes a high end goalie with a great cap hit and his market value is priced accordingly?

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:02 PM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Their values are independant of Luongos.

But its the old saying "you get what you pay for".

Ashton + 2nd is probably lindback territory. Not Luongo territory.
Keeping Kadri + having a goalie of Lindback's calibre is more appealing than having a goalie like Luongo at his age and contract situation.

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10-23-2012, 01:02 PM
  #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
I'd rather have...

- Lindback
- Save 3.5M cap space
- Keep Kadri

... than have Luongo.

That's what it boils down to.
A gambler... I respect that. Would you feel the same if your job and reputation were on the line?

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:02 PM
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Fair enough.

I can understand people who dont want to give valuable assets to Luongo, or essentially pay market price.

Good players dont come cheap.

Its more the lowball offers that get annoying (I mean every time someone says "Ashton and macArthur Y2KCanuck just makes some ridiculous Gardiner + JVR counter).
And what's the market price? We don't know how many suitors there are for Roberto (considering the amount of teams interested in Roberto and the amount of teams Roberto's willing to waive his NTC). That's a big part of determining what the price should be.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:06 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
That alone proves my point of his level of play being up in the air.
Proving what? a young injured goalie can be inconsistent?

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:07 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
And what's the market price? We don't know how many suitors there are for Roberto (considering the amount of teams interested in Roberto and the amount of teams Roberto's willing to waive his NTC). That's a big part of determining what the price should be.

Is it fair to assume its more than Ashton + 2nd? (a comparable package to what lindback fetched)

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:08 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Proving what? a young injured goalie can be inconsistent?
Proving a young goalie can be inconsistent. The injury may or may not have impacted his play. There are lots of goalies like Raycroft who have good starts nad then their play falls off as players learn their tendencies and weak spots.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:09 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
So your telling me, Steve Yzerman acquires Anders Lindback, yet he could have traded a 2nd and Carter Ashton (lets pretend hes still a Bolt) for Luongo?

You ever think maybe hes a high end goalie with a great cap hit and his market value is priced accordingly?
I don't pretend to know what Yzerman thinks. Perhaps he didn't want Luongo's contract at any price.

May be a great cap hit but it isn't a great contract.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:09 PM
  #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Fair enough.

I can understand people who dont want to give valuable assets to Luongo, or essentially pay market price.

Good players dont come cheap.

Its more the lowball offers that get annoying (I mean every time someone says "Ashton and macArthur Y2KCanuck just makes some ridiculous Gardiner + JVR counter).
I agree with you but the market price for goaltenders differs than the price for forwards or defencemen.

That, along with the fact that Luongo's contract handcuffs you from moving him down the road. It's back-ended and you are essentially paying $40,254,000 over the next 6 seasons.

Roberto Luongo at 39 years old would be getting paid $6.174M in cash.

Despite the $5.3M cap hit. This simple fact will likely negate 50% of the teams that could potentially have been viable trade candidates in the league.

That's one of the reasons why you don't sell the farm for Luongo, ie., a top prospect.

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10-23-2012, 01:10 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Not really... you keep ignoring things like how Luongo has stated he wants out, the coach has stated he wants out, the GM has stated he wants out, the media distraction all year of this PR disaster if he isn't traded, the real dollars he's owed to play 40~ games at the most, the ego hit a top goalie takes playing that few games because of a 26 year old with minimal games played just to name a few things
You keep ignoring things like how Luongo said he is okay staying here, and how Mike Gillis has said that if we don't get what we want that Luongo will not be dealt. Simple.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:11 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
I'd rather have...

- Lindback
- Save 3.5M cap space
- Keep Kadri

... than have Luongo.

That's what it boils down to.
Kinda what it boiled down to for Tampa, but you're taking a far bigger chance with Lindback than with Luongo, and Lindback wasn't as cheap as many on here said he would be.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:13 PM
  #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Keeping Kadri + having a goalie of Lindback's calibre is more appealing than having a goalie like Luongo at his age and contract situation.
I can respect that and understand why that would be more beneficial to some people.

But if that was Burke's MO then why hasn't he done just that? Does he really have faith in Reimer and Scrivens? Does he really think he'll get Lu for a reasonable price? Was Lindback going to cost him more than Ashton + 2nd?

I hope we find out, at least some of, the answers soon...

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:13 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
A gambler... I respect that. Would you feel the same if your job and reputation were on the line?
I see your point, but I also don't buy into the myth that Luongo is the only way that the Maple Leafs make the playoffs. I'd rather a team built on developing a very competent .915% goalie than buying into a big name that will ultimately turn out to be an asset with little-to-no value in a few years.

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10-23-2012, 01:14 PM
  #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
I agree with you but the market price for goaltenders differs than the price for forwards or defencemen.

That, along with the fact that Luongo's contract handcuffs you from moving him down the road. It's back-ended and you are essentially paying $40,254,000 over the next 6 seasons.

Roberto Luongo at 39 years old would be getting paid $6.174M in cash.

Despite the $5.3M cap hit. This simple fact will likely negate 50% of the teams that could potentially have been viable trade candidates in the league.

That's one of the reasons why you don't sell the farm for Luongo, ie., a top prospect.
The latest proposal allows teams to pay up to 3 million dollars of the actual salary of the traded player. And the deal is front loaded, not back ended.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:15 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Kinda what it boiled down to for Tampa, but you're taking a far bigger chance with Lindback than with Luongo, and Lindback wasn't as cheap as many on here said he would be.
Yzerman has a lot more rope to work with than Burke. If Lindback falls on his face, Yzerman can look somewhere else for a goalie. If Reimer falls on his face, Burke can look somewhere else for a job.

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10-23-2012, 01:16 PM
  #850
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I'd rather a team built on developing a very competent .915% goalie
If they were that easy to find, you guys wouldn't have been chasing your tail for 10 years.

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