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12-13' Prospects Thread Part XII: Connor Brown is a Steal

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Old
10-21-2012, 12:53 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'm hoping someone uploads Finn's OT game winner earlier this week against Peterborough, it was a beautiful one timer from the point.

His production though a pleasant surprise, is not something I would expect as a NHL'er but I wouldn't mind if he surprises us if he can carry it over to the NHL level. He's a solid D man who will chip in with occasional points, Rielly on the otherhand can be any kind of D man.

Biggs in against Tom Wilson tomorrow, wonder if they will go.
http://www.gopetesgo.com/video/index/id/1350309362

Finn opens the scoring and ends it.

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10-21-2012, 12:59 AM
  #152
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I know that Gardiner isn't technically a prospect anymore, but damn is he ever looking dominant so far.. He really is a special player. I don't think he has the all around game for top pairing duties, but I think he will be a valuable top 4 D for years to come.
I am not a HUGE fan of Gardiner, guess you can say I am somewhat neutral towards him, but even I feel that he can become more than just a valuable top 4 d-man because for one, he currently is a top 4 d-man, and two, there is nowhere for him to go but up. Don't forget he is also just 21 and d-man's take quite longer to develop.

Also, He isn't really bad defensively as some make him out to be either, he will continually to grow and eventually become strong #3 or low-end #2, IMHO. Very good offensively and decent defensively is what I expect him to grow into.


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10-21-2012, 01:10 AM
  #153
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Smitty makes a good point regarding prospects such as Mueller and Mikus.
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http://www.gopetesgo.com/video/index/id/1350309362

Finn opens the scoring and ends it.
I really like what I saw from Finn there, however sparks should've had atleast two of those goals. Not happy to see that.

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10-21-2012, 06:18 AM
  #154
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Hey Tyler Brenner has a place to play! Looks like he's been assigned to the Bakersfield Condors.

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Bakersfield:
Add Tyler Brenner, F assigned from Toronto (AHL) by Toronto (NHL)
He played last night against the San Francisco Bulls. No points but 2 shots and 2 PIMs

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10-21-2012, 06:27 AM
  #155
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I thought the table was just fine before but it's even better now, you out did yourself Brody, thanks!

Browner points haha

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10-21-2012, 06:27 AM
  #156
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I see the title of the thread has been changed again Now it's better than ever!

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10-21-2012, 08:38 AM
  #157
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Should I add Jonas Frogren and whoever else too? We like quadrupled the prospects, might as well add more guys that no one cares about...

ps, I added them for you, under "Europe".


I'll update you on their progress.

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10-21-2012, 09:02 AM
  #158
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I am not a HUGE fan of Gardiner, guess you can say I am somewhat neutral towards him, but even I feel that he can become more than just a valuable top 4 d-man because for one, he currently is a top 4 d-man, and two, there is nowhere for him to go but up. Don't forget he is also just 21 and d-man's take quite longer to develop.

Also, He isn't really bad defensively as some make him out to be either, he will continually to grow and eventually become strong #3 or low-end #2, IMHO. Very good offensively and decent defensively is what I expect him to grow into.
Please excuse any errors in spelling / grammar as I am on my phone. But there was a thread a while back ranking our defenseman based on corsi, average to, and goals allowed per 60 minutes and stuff like that. I'm not overly familiar with the in depth stats. If my memory serves me correctly Gardiner had some of the most sheltered minutes. Behind only komiserak I believe. Based on this I wouldn't say that he is a fixture in the top 4. And don't get me wrong, when I say he will be a valuable member of our top 4, what I mean is a strong no. 3 defenseman, as you have suggested above.

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10-21-2012, 09:38 AM
  #159
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Please excuse any errors in spelling / grammar as I am on my phone. But there was a thread a while back ranking our defenseman based on corsi, average to, and goals allowed per 60 minutes and stuff like that. I'm not overly familiar with the in depth stats. If my memory serves me correctly Gardiner had some of the most sheltered minutes. Behind only komiserak I believe. Based on this I wouldn't say that he is a fixture in the top 4. And don't get me wrong, when I say he will be a valuable member of our top 4, what I mean is a strong no. 3 defenseman, as you have suggested above.
You do know that rookies get sheltered minutes right? Unfair to say that Gardiner can't be a top pairing D based on his rookie year, in which he was FANTASTIC offensively. People compare him to guys like Duncan Keith as far as style, skating, IQ, etc and Duncan Keith wasn't even in the NHL 3 years after being drafted, and didn't really become the Duncan Keith we know until after his 3rd year in the NHL.

Boston is going to do the same thing with Dougie Hamilton even though he's the best defenseman in the CHL.

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10-21-2012, 09:47 AM
  #160
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2011 prospects seem to be doing very well this year.

Is 2011 is going to be one of those drafts you look back on and admire?

Example:

Boon Jenner, 37th. overall, 12 games, 9 goals 18 points so far this season.
Phillip Danault 26th. overall, 13 games, 11 goals, 22 points.
Jonathan Huberdeau, 3rd. overall, 13 games, 10 goals, 18 points.
Sven Bartschi 13th. overall, 4 games, 3 goals, 6 points (AHL).
Mark Scheifele 7th. overall, 12 games, 7 goals, 20 points.
Tyler Biggs 22nd. overall, 12 games, 6 goals, 11 points.
Lucas Lessio 56th. overall, 12 games, 7 goals, 13 points.
Michael St. Croix 106th. overall, 13 games, 8 goals, 18 points.

Wonder if the lock-out is keeping some of these guys in junior when they'd have competed for a NHL spot otherwise?

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10-21-2012, 09:47 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
You do know that rookies get sheltered minutes right? Unfair to say that Gardiner can't be a top pairing D based on his rookie year, in which he was FANTASTIC offensively. People compare him to guys like Duncan Keith as far as style, skating, IQ, etc and Duncan Keith wasn't even in the NHL 3 years after being drafted, and didn't really become the Duncan Keith we know until after his 3rd year in the NHL.

Boston is going to do the same thing with Dougie Hamilton even though he's the best defenseman in the CHL.
I take a bit of pride in that I keep fairly tempered expectations. I don't see Gardiner panning out to be a top 2, that doesn't mean I don't think very highly of him, because I do.

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10-21-2012, 09:49 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
2011 prospects seem to be doing very well this year.

Is 2011 is going to be one of those drafts you look back on and admire?

Example:

Boon Jenner, 37th. overall, 12 games, 9 goals 18 points so far this season.
Phillip Danault 26th. overall, 13 games, 11 goals, 22 points.
Jonathan Huberdeau, 3rd. overall, 13 games, 10 goals, 18 points.
Sven Bartschi 13th. overall, 4 games, 3 goals, 6 points (AHL).
Mark Scheifele 7th. overall, 12 games, 7 goals, 20 points.
Tyler Biggs 22nd. overall, 12 games, 6 goals, 11 points.
Lucas Lessio 56th. overall, 12 games, 7 goals, 13 points.
Michael St. Croix 106th. overall, 13 games, 8 goals, 18 points.

Wonder if the lock-out is keeping some of these guys in junior when they'd have competed for a NHL spot otherwise?
Biggs doesn't fit on that list imho

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10-21-2012, 10:14 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by JVReemer View Post
I take a bit of pride in that I keep fairly tempered expectations. I don't see Gardiner panning out to be a top 2, that doesn't mean I don't think very highly of him, because I do.
Then perhaps you're standard of a #2 d is really a #1 d? Because I see Gardiner becoming a 25 minute, 40-50 point 2-way defender. He's not terrible defensively with his poise I see no reason he can't be solid in his own end, only potential knock one could have on the kid is that he won't be overly physical. I think it will be murky if he becomes a legit #1, but I think 1st pairing defender is a sure thing as far as Gardiner goes. Name some of the #3's out there, and tell me Gardiner doesn't have the potential to be better.

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10-21-2012, 10:21 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
2011 prospects seem to be doing very well this year.

Is 2011 is going to be one of those drafts you look back on and admire?

Example:

Boon Jenner, 37th. overall, 12 games, 9 goals 18 points so far this season.
Phillip Danault 26th. overall, 13 games, 11 goals, 22 points.
Jonathan Huberdeau, 3rd. overall, 13 games, 10 goals, 18 points.
Sven Bartschi 13th. overall, 4 games, 3 goals, 6 points (AHL).
Mark Scheifele 7th. overall, 12 games, 7 goals, 20 points.
Tyler Biggs 22nd. overall, 12 games, 6 goals, 11 points.
Lucas Lessio 56th. overall, 12 games, 7 goals, 13 points.
Michael St. Croix 106th. overall, 13 games, 8 goals, 18 points.

Wonder if the lock-out is keeping some of these guys in junior when they'd have competed for a NHL spot otherwise?
Remember when some were calling this a weak draft class? I thought this was a very deep draft, and it is starting to look like it is. John Gibson is going to be a stud goalie also. Lots to like from later in the 1st rd and beyond.

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10-21-2012, 10:23 AM
  #165
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Wow this may be slightly off topic but I went to check on some stats from last years guys.

Galch is a little over a PPG which is expected, but Grigorenko is on a tear, over 2 points per game right now( 23 points in 11 games.) Buffalo may have gotten a steal with that one.

Interestingly Forsberg also now has 11 points in 12 games, on the same team where he had 17 points in 43 games.

it'll be interesting to see how they transfer into the NHL.
Isn't his current team relegated or something. For last season they were listed as Swe-1 instead of SEL. I don't know the rules there and can't get an answer here.

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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
2011 prospects seem to be doing very well this year.

Is 2011 is going to be one of those drafts you look back on and admire?

Example:

Boon Jenner, 37th. overall, 12 games, 9 goals 18 points so far this season.
Phillip Danault 26th. overall, 13 games, 11 goals, 22 points.
Jonathan Huberdeau, 3rd. overall, 13 games, 10 goals, 18 points.
Sven Bartschi 13th. overall, 4 games, 3 goals, 6 points (AHL).
Mark Scheifele 7th. overall, 12 games, 7 goals, 20 points.
Tyler Biggs 22nd. overall, 12 games, 6 goals, 11 points.
Lucas Lessio 56th. overall, 12 games, 7 goals, 13 points.
Michael St. Croix 106th. overall, 13 games, 8 goals, 18 points.

Wonder if the lock-out is keeping some of these guys in junior when they'd have competed for a NHL spot otherwise?
I think the affect is opposite, in that they have to get more time in Jr and not because they couldn't make it, but because they didn't get a chance. Their egos can't be damaged and they can just concentrate on learning more and dominating. They fall in the same class as 2003, relative to their draft and the lock-out.

As for Biggs, we shouldn't be too focused on his scoring, as long as he gets his 25-30 goals and 30ish assists, that's all that matters. He isn't going to be a NHL stand out with his scoring, more as a physical force. I'd want him to dominate physically now and get used to using his size to control the game.

If he score 20 goals in the NHL, then that's just bonus, IMO.

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10-21-2012, 10:26 AM
  #166
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Then perhaps you're standard of a #2 d is really a #1 d? Because I see Gardiner becoming a 25 minute, 40-50 point 2-way defender. He's not terrible defensively with his poise I see no reason he can't be solid in his own end, only potential knock one could have on the kid is that he won't be overly physical. I think it will be murky if he becomes a legit #1, but I think 1st pairing defender is a sure thing as far as Gardiner goes. Name some of the #3's out there, and tell me Gardiner doesn't have the potential to be better.
Good arguments, but potential isn't what I was talking about. I'm giving my opinion on how good I think he will become. I see him as a more talented JML when it's all said and done. Second pairing, first PP.

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10-21-2012, 10:28 AM
  #167
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Isn't his current team relegated or something. For last season they were listed as Swe-1 instead of SEL. I don't know the rules there and can't get an answer here.

I think the affect is opposite, in that they have to get more time in Jr and not because they couldn't make it, but because they didn't get a chance. Their egos can't be damaged and they can just concentrate on learning more and dominating. They fall in the same class as 2003, relative to their draft and the lock-out.

As for Biggs, we shouldn't be too focused on his scoring, as long as he gets his 25-30 goals and 30ish assists, that's all that matters. He isn't going to be a NHL stand out with his scoring, more as a physical force. I'd want him to dominate physically now and get used to using his size to control the game.

If he score 20 goals in the NHL, then that's just bonus, IMO.
I was thinking the same and that's why I included players like Jenner.

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/boo...draft-profile/

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It is hard to say what actually makes Jenner such a great player; he really is a just a complete package. Standing at 6.03, 197 pounds; Jenner is incredibly strong on the puck and is not afraid to go to the high traffic areas on the ice. In combination with his stature, the development in his ability to read the ice really makes him a threat with or without the puck in the offensive zone. He will never be the player you expect to shoot out the lights, having a 50 goal season, but he is a dependable two-way forward that can play all in all situations, which could make him a great fit on 2nd or 3rd line in the NHL. Jenner will benefit from having a deep forward group next season, and his production should increase as a result.

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10-21-2012, 10:30 AM
  #168
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Then perhaps you're standard of a #2 d is really a #1 d? Because I see Gardiner becoming a 25 minute, 40-50 point 2-way defender. He's not terrible defensively with his poise I see no reason he can't be solid in his own end, only potential knock one could have on the kid is that he won't be overly physical. I think it will be murky if he becomes a legit #1, but I think 1st pairing defender is a sure thing as far as Gardiner goes. Name some of the #3's out there, and tell me Gardiner doesn't have the potential to be better.
I think with the right partner, he will be a great #2. Dion seems like the type that could be a great fit for him. Defense first with a hard shot. Let Gardiner carry the puck and dictate the offense, let Dion do the heavy lifting in front of the net and on shut down duties.

The thing about being a GREAT top pairing is that they both need to be at least good in their own end. Not one great, one ok. Kaberle and MacCabe were our last best pairing and neither was great in his own end. Had we have gotten Blake I think that could've been the piece to push us at least one more step in the right direction.

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10-21-2012, 10:32 AM
  #169
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Isn't his current team relegated or something. For last season they were listed as Swe-1 instead of SEL. I don't know the rules there and can't get an answer here.
Nope I believe Leksand has been in the HA (essentially league-2 of the SEL) since 05-06.

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10-21-2012, 10:35 AM
  #170
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I was thinking the same and that's why I included players like Jenner.

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/boo...draft-profile/
People tend to under-rate 3rd liners too much. The right guy in the right role can be so important to teams success. Claude Lemieux was instrumental. If he was just a 50 pt player, we may have forgotten his name by now.

I think Jenner has higher upside for offense, but not near as much a force as Biggs. Biggs is gonna be a wrecking ball, IMO, but I have my doubts for his offense. I expect 30 pt seasons from him.

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10-21-2012, 10:35 AM
  #171
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Please excuse any errors in spelling / grammar as I am on my phone. But there was a thread a while back ranking our defenseman based on corsi, average to, and goals allowed per 60 minutes and stuff like that. I'm not overly familiar with the in depth stats. If my memory serves me correctly Gardiner had some of the most sheltered minutes. Behind only komiserak I believe. Based on this I wouldn't say that he is a fixture in the top 4. And don't get me wrong, when I say he will be a valuable member of our top 4, what I mean is a strong no. 3 defenseman, as you have suggested above.
Agreed, I also see him as a safe bet to become a strong #3.

And when you said he had one of the most sheltered players last year, the reason is very simple, he was a rookie, give him a year or two and he will be relied on to play some hard minutes on ES, PK, PP.

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10-21-2012, 10:37 AM
  #172
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Nope I believe Leksand has been in the HA (essentially league-2 of the SEL) since 05-06.
League 2 isn't relegation?

Is it just a lesser league entirely? You wouldn't think a smaller hockey community could sustain 2 leagues. It sounds like it's set up like soccer, without the talent of soccer.

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10-21-2012, 10:39 AM
  #173
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I think with the right partner, he will be a great #2. Dion seems like the type that could be a great fit for him. Defense first with a hard shot. Let Gardiner carry the puck and dictate the offense, let Dion do the heavy lifting in front of the net and on shut down duties.

The thing about being a GREAT top pairing is that they both need to be at least good in their own end. Not one great, one ok. Kaberle and MacCabe were our last best pairing and neither was great in his own end. Had we have gotten Blake I think that could've been the piece to push us at least one more step in the right direction.
I'm hoping Rielly is the Leafs OEL.

Even on the broadcast last night they made mention that OEL, even as good as he has proven in the NHL, is playing in the AHL.

OEL was the guy I wanted Burke to go after in the non_Schenn debacle in 2009. However, I was really impressed with how strong he looked in last year's playoffs. He was only 20 years old but looked like a vet out there. He's listed at just 190 lbs., and 6'2", but looks bigger.

Rielly is list at 6', 205 lbs., and all the talk is about his offense, but if that talk can turn to his defense they probably have something there.

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10-21-2012, 10:43 AM
  #174
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League 2 isn't relegation?

Is it just a lesser league entirely? You wouldn't think a smaller hockey community could sustain 2 leagues. It sounds like it's set up like soccer, without the talent of soccer.
There is relegation. They just haven't played in the Elitserien since I believe 05-06. And according to Wiki, the HockeyAllsvenskan has been pretty successful for a tier2 league.

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10-21-2012, 10:50 AM
  #175
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I'm hoping Rielly is the Leafs OEL.

Even on the broadcast last night they made mention that OEL, even as good as he has proven in the NHL, is playing in the AHL.

OEL was the guy I wanted Burke to go after in the non_Schenn debacle in 2009. However, I was really impressed with how strong he looked in last year's playoffs. He was only 20 years old but looked like a vet out there. He's listed at just 190 lbs., and 6'2", but looks bigger.

Rielly is list at 6', 205 lbs., and all the talk is about his offense, but if that talk can turn to his defense they probably have something there.
Yeah Larsson's doing well early on with Portland this year. It could be really good for him, and I think the same will do well for Gardiner.

Between Gardiner and Reilly we have at the least 2 really good top 4 PMD's. Two highly coveted trade baits as well. I think they both still have some potential to be #1's. Though I'd say more likely #2's. With Dion already here, who I feel is a legit #1, We have a great future on D for a while. Or a highly coveted, tradeable asset to get a more pressing need. If we are to trade a guy like Reilly, I'd want a very young 1C, like Duchene. But I don't think he has that much value yet.

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