HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Notices

Leadership in 5 years

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-22-2012, 12:14 AM
  #51
saskriders
ColinGreening's#1fan
 
saskriders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,489
vCash: 1322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
Well you also have to consider that it was a different coaching staff who appointed those captains. MacLean may feel that Neil is one of the more prominent leaders on this team. Neil did get to wear the A when one of the other captains were out of the lineup. And I don't think MacLean would have stripped anyone of their captaincy because he felt that another player was a better leader. So Neil not having an A may have been more of having to do with the captains being set prior to MacLean becoming coach.
It still is a bigger transition for Neil, then it is for Phillips.

Though I would not be disappointed with Neil as the captain

saskriders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 12:17 AM
  #52
benjiv1
Registered User
 
benjiv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Hey I don't care if you believe it or not. I saw it at the Sensplex earlier in the summer.

Guys like Alfie and Phillips would NEVER pull that with fans. Real leaders.

Just because he is probably our best player doesn't mean that he doesn't need to improve in some areas. A little thing like signing a freaking autograph for a couple of little kids is not a lot to ask from a guy fortunate enough to be in the position he's in.
I call ******** on this. If you knew my story about the first time I met Karlsson, you wouldn't be spreading your filth.

Also, I can confirm that both Alfredsson and Phillips have blown off fans before, because I've had it happen to me with Alfredsson when I was 10, and I watched Phillips do it last week.

benjiv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 12:23 AM
  #53
saskriders
ColinGreening's#1fan
 
saskriders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,489
vCash: 1322
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiv1 View Post
I call ******** on this. If you knew my story about the first time I met Karlsson, you wouldn't be spreading your filth.

Also, I can confirm that both Alfredsson and Phillips have blown off fans before, because I've had it happen to me with Alfredsson when I was 10, and I watched Phillips do it last week.
This, you can't expect everybody to not blow off anybody, otherwise these guys would never have time to do anything.

You just hope that guys are as respectful to the fans as possible

saskriders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 06:01 AM
  #54
jbeck5
Registered User
 
jbeck5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Right now I don't see Karlsson in a leadership role. Maybe in time he will mature enough to grow into it, but right now, he's a little ********* in my opinion.

I like his game a lot, but he has a long way to go in the other aspects of being a pro player, and fan ambassador. I've seen him blow off little kids asking for autographs.

I saw Don Brennan mention that he saw the same thing but he wouldn't say who it was due to his "already rocky relationship" with said player, but as soon as I read it, I knew it was EK.

Seriously...what kind of jackass blows off little kids. He was parading around with some agent or something, not like he was in a hurry to get anywhere.

I'm not saying he'll never get there, but he sure isn't on the right path right now.
When i was a little kid, alfredsson blew me off. Best head i ever got. KIDDING. Seriously though, when i was a kid, alfredsson blew me off...at skate with the senators to boot. It took me a decade to start liking him again...a decade being the 2007 stanley cup finals. He blew me off in 97. Only assistant captain at the time, i went up to him on the ice with an alfredsson t-shirt and said "look its you" all excited to talk to him and he said "thats cool kid" and skated away. I was so hurt. I still remember feeling like crap. I was 9 years old.

So i don't know where you're going with this. Hockey players are dicks. Almost all of them. Even the ones you love, are probably full of themselves, cocky ******. I would be too if i made millions and had women throw themselves at me everywhere i go.

jbeck5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 06:05 AM
  #55
jbeck5
Registered User
 
jbeck5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Hey I don't care if you believe it or not. I saw it at the Sensplex earlier in the summer.

Guys like Alfie and Phillips would NEVER pull that with fans. Real leaders.

Just because he is probably our best player doesn't mean that he doesn't need to improve in some areas. A little thing like signing a freaking autograph for a couple of little kids is not a lot to ask from a guy fortunate enough to be in the position he's in.
LOL.

Except he did that to me.

My excuse for alfie is he didn't have kids yet, and probably didn't fully understand how much it means to kids to see their idols. He has probably matured a lot since then. Karlsson could grow up once he has kids too.

jbeck5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 06:12 AM
  #56
Rumcajs
Registered User
 
Rumcajs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,971
vCash: 500
C- Spezza
A- Karlsson
A- Cowen/Greening

Rumcajs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 06:13 AM
  #57
Tyskie
#Lehnsanity
 
Tyskie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,776
vCash: 500
Phillips snubbed me at his own restaurant. Obviously he lacks character.

Tyskie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 07:41 AM
  #58
hockeyalltheway
Moderator
You can't do that!
 
hockeyalltheway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,194
vCash: 611
C: Filatov
A: Bashkirov
A: rotate between Zubov and Kaigorodov

__________________
I DON'T WANT TO TAKE FOR EXAMPLE THE LA SPARKS
hockeyalltheway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 07:59 AM
  #59
sleeves
Registered User
 
sleeves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 12
vCash: 500
(C) Spezza
(A) Turris
(A) Toss up between Karlsson and Cowen.

sleeves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 09:33 AM
  #60
John Holmes
Spuds MacLean™
 
John Holmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,721
vCash: 87
Yeah, I am going to make up a story about a player that I think is our best, and probably one of the league superstars in the making for absolutely no reason.

If you guys think that there is no difference between some guy who is actually BUSY (on the ice, working his restaurant) and a guy that is basically standing around just trying to impress the minions with his presence...then fine.

I know Karlsson is young, and I already said MAYBE he'll mature into a leadership role in the future. What more do you want?

The fact that he's never worn a letter at any level, ever, should tell you all you need to know about the guy.

He's a cocky little doosh. If you think I'm a jerk now, you should have met me when I was 21.

I know that guys can't be signing every autograph every time, and I didn't say anything about it on here when I saw it, or when Don Brennan wrote about his mystery man, but when you are forecasting a guy to be a team leader when he hasn't really shown any indication that he has that make up, I'll feel free to chime in.

John Holmes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 10:36 AM
  #61
Germz
4th liners ftw
 
Germz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,880
vCash: 500
I could not disagree more with the people who think that Phillips will be our next captain.

At this point in his career, he would be the ********* captain in the league by a long shot. You don't give the captaincy to guys like that unless you are an expansion club or a young rebuilding club trying to shelter your best players from the demands that come with the 'C'. That's why we picked a guy like Randy Cunneyworth to captain the team in the 90s. And then we dumped him to give the 'C' to our go-to players that were coming of age.

The Avalanche decided to make a 38 year-old Adam Foote captain after Sakic retired. Their best players at the time were young and inexperienced (Stastny, Stewart, Duchene, O'Reilly). The only real veterans they skipped over were JM Liles and Milan Hejduk. They did not have an elite centre with ten years of NHL experience as one of the faces of their franchise. The fact that they have since taken the captaincy away from Hejduk and given it to a teenager suggests that Hejduk never wanted the job in the first place anyhow.

Foote did what he could but he was not much use as a captain. He was barely a 2nd-pairing guy in 09-10 and by his last season he was almost completely useless. I love Phillips but the same could happen to him. You don't want a declining role player wearing the 'C.' You want it to be a go-to guy.

Spezza will be 30 next summer. If he's not ready for the captaincy now, he never will be. Maybe if Fisher were still around, I'd say there would be a contest. But from where I stand now, barring a major roster change the only option for the captaincy is Spezza. He's had years to prepare for the role of filling Alfie's big shoes (clown shoes lol eh leaf fans).

As for 5 years from now, as someone said it really depends on how well Spezza's body holds up. If he can still play a key role at that point, I think it's very likely he will stick around and keep the captaincy. If he goes into a steep decline then I could see someone like Karlsson in the role.

Germz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 10:40 AM
  #62
benjiv1
Registered User
 
benjiv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,363
vCash: 500
I was calling ******** on your statement that Alfredsson and Phillips would never do that.

I've watched Alfredsson turn people away left, right and centre for years. (myself included) And, I watched Phillips turn away a bunch of kids last week.

Here is what I posted in 2009 upon meeting Karlsson:

Okay, so I'm sure a few of the people reading this know that I work at a movie theatre, and often times get to talk to the players on the Sens. Well this story tops anything I have ever had happen to me. (Including Brodeur bringing my Karlsson to the back of the Bingo game to get him to sign it)

So while I was at work today I was working on something in the Box Office (hard to explain what I do at the theatre, because really I do all sorts of stuff that wouldn't make sense if I tried to explain it), I heard one of the new people I had trained last week serving a guest. I didn't really pay much attention until I hear the new guy say something kind of off, and when I looked up sure enough it was Erik Karlsson. In short what happened was that he wanted to see Avatar in 3D, but was sold tickets to the regular version. I noticed that he looked confused and he kind of looked towards me so I had him come around to the Guest Services counter.

So while I was waiting for the till become free I started talking to him. I commented on his goal last night and he mentioned how nice it was to score etc. Coincidentally I had won a bid on one of his rookie cards off eBay last night as well and mentioned it to him. I told him the next time he came in he would have to sign it for me, to which he replied "For sure man, no problem."

Then I mentioned that he had already signed my jersey at the Binghamton game, and he was like "Oh yeah! I didn't know who it was for and Brodeur brought it back while I was changing so I couldn't bring it back out!"

Anyways, as I am handing him the tickets he asks me what time I was off. I told him 6 and he says "Ok, good so you will be here when the movie starts, I've got something at the house I will bring back for you".

I told him it was really unnecessary, but he was insistent. So after he leaves, a few of the other managers come up to me and asked if I had ever met him before, and asked why he wanted to know what time I was off. I told them that I had never really said much to him before, and that I didn't really know why he asked, but that he said he was going to get something for me.

So 40 mins later he taps me on the shoulder while I was looking the other way and hands me TWO ROOKIE CARDS, that he just signed for me!


I thanked him and he thanked me for all the help and he went to his movie!



I was left utterly speechless after this, I really can't say enough about the guy, his girlfriend was also really nice! It really made my day (obviously), and made me really proud that I was one the first to have his name sewn on my jersey! I'm sure I left out some details, but it was really awesome!



I rest my case.

benjiv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 12:09 PM
  #63
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 22,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Yeah, I am going to make up a story about a player that I think is our best, and probably one of the league superstars in the making for absolutely no reason.

If you guys think that there is no difference between some guy who is actually BUSY (on the ice, working his restaurant) and a guy that is basically standing around just trying to impress the minions with his presence...then fine.

I know Karlsson is young, and I already said MAYBE he'll mature into a leadership role in the future. What more do you want?

The fact that he's never worn a letter at any level, ever, should tell you all you need to know about the guy.

He's a cocky little doosh. If you think I'm a jerk now, you should have met me when I was 21.

I know that guys can't be signing every autograph every time, and I didn't say anything about it on here when I saw it, or when Don Brennan wrote about his mystery man, but when you are forecasting a guy to be a team leader when he hasn't really shown any indication that he has that make up, I'll feel free to chime in.
Non-elite players are usually only chosen to be captains when there is no other choice. May be the wrong move but that's the way she goes. Anyone that says a guy like Cowen will be captain is also banking on him being an elite player...that's fine, it's not out of question, but they should go hand in hand.

You say he's a cocky little ****** but he's also admired universally by teammates and people that deal with him. I've heard people that deal with him use words like infectious personality and "most confident athlete I've dealt with". Those are some pretty strong leadership traits to possess at 21 considering we probably won't be looking for a new captain for at least 4 years.

My maturity at 21 pales in comparison to what it is at 25 and I've never been under a spotlight day-to-day which only magnifies the maturation process.

You're also gonna have a lot of people suggesting it's not going to be him just because he's the easy answer. Not saying that's you but as with any subject on here you do have the people that just wanna be different for the sake of being different.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 12:38 PM
  #64
John Holmes
Spuds MacLean™
 
John Holmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,721
vCash: 87
Our next Captain is going to be Spezza.

John Holmes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 12:49 PM
  #65
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 20,168
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Right now I don't see Karlsson in a leadership role. Maybe in time he will mature enough to grow into it, but right now, he's a little ********* in my opinion.

I like his game a lot, but he has a long way to go in the other aspects of being a pro player, and fan ambassador. I've seen him blow off little kids asking for autographs.

I saw Don Brennan mention that he saw the same thing but he wouldn't say who it was due to his "already rocky relationship" with said player, but as soon as I read it, I knew it was EK.

Seriously...what kind of jackass blows off little kids. He was parading around with some agent or something, not like he was in a hurry to get anywhere.

I'm not saying he'll never get there, but he sure isn't on the right path right now.
Loooooooooooooool, such a weak argument. Have you seen Sakic and Messier deal with fans? In 5 years, if he continues his play which i expect him to, he will be mature enough to be the Captain of this team and should be, unless Cowen plays like a number one defense man by that time, then I can see him captaining the team.

ReginKarlssonLehner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 01:55 PM
  #66
John Holmes
Spuds MacLean™
 
John Holmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,721
vCash: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiv1 View Post
I was calling ******** on your statement that Alfredsson and Phillips would never do that.

I've watched Alfredsson turn people away left, right and centre for years. (myself included) And, I watched Phillips turn away a bunch of kids last week.

Here is what I posted in 2009 upon meeting Karlsson:

Okay, so I'm sure a few of the people reading this know that I work at a movie theatre, and often times get to talk to the players on the Sens. Well this story tops anything I have ever had happen to me. (Including Brodeur bringing my Karlsson to the back of the Bingo game to get him to sign it)

So while I was at work today I was working on something in the Box Office (hard to explain what I do at the theatre, because really I do all sorts of stuff that wouldn't make sense if I tried to explain it), I heard one of the new people I had trained last week serving a guest. I didn't really pay much attention until I hear the new guy say something kind of off, and when I looked up sure enough it was Erik Karlsson. In short what happened was that he wanted to see Avatar in 3D, but was sold tickets to the regular version. I noticed that he looked confused and he kind of looked towards me so I had him come around to the Guest Services counter.

So while I was waiting for the till become free I started talking to him. I commented on his goal last night and he mentioned how nice it was to score etc. Coincidentally I had won a bid on one of his rookie cards off eBay last night as well and mentioned it to him. I told him the next time he came in he would have to sign it for me, to which he replied "For sure man, no problem."

Then I mentioned that he had already signed my jersey at the Binghamton game, and he was like "Oh yeah! I didn't know who it was for and Brodeur brought it back while I was changing so I couldn't bring it back out!"

Anyways, as I am handing him the tickets he asks me what time I was off. I told him 6 and he says "Ok, good so you will be here when the movie starts, I've got something at the house I will bring back for you".

I told him it was really unnecessary, but he was insistent. So after he leaves, a few of the other managers come up to me and asked if I had ever met him before, and asked why he wanted to know what time I was off. I told them that I had never really said much to him before, and that I didn't really know why he asked, but that he said he was going to get something for me.

So 40 mins later he taps me on the shoulder while I was looking the other way and hands me TWO ROOKIE CARDS, that he just signed for me!


I thanked him and he thanked me for all the help and he went to his movie!



I was left utterly speechless after this, I really can't say enough about the guy, his girlfriend was also really nice! It really made my day (obviously), and made me really proud that I was one the first to have his name sewn on my jersey! I'm sure I left out some details, but it was really awesome!



I rest my case.
Ok.

Maybe his ego has swelled with his bank account. Maybe he had some reason for standing around and blowing off fans on that particular day.

I believe your story but, I won't call it "bs" just because I witnessed the opposing spectrum of his personality.

John Holmes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 02:04 PM
  #67
benjiv1
Registered User
 
benjiv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Ok.

Maybe his ego has swelled with his bank account. Maybe he had some reason for standing around and blowing off fans on that particular day.

I believe your story but, I won't call it "bs" just because I witnessed the opposing spectrum of his personality.
I should have specified. I didn't mean to say that your story, or your opinion was BS. Just the logic behind why he couldn't/shouldn't be captain. (As most players have blown off fans at some point in their career)

On that note I can share a little bit of insight on Karlsson. He really doesn't understand why people would want his autograph. I talked to him at the Sens soirée this year and asked him to sign the cover of the hockey news he was on and he said "uh sure, but why?, it's just a magazine?".

I've met Karlsson a handful of times, each time he has been awesome to speak with and has had no qualms about signing autographs.

Also, Karlsson wore the "A" in pre- season once. Might have even been last year.

benjiv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 02:21 PM
  #68
DylanSensFan
Walk On!
 
DylanSensFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,445
vCash: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Hey I don't care if you believe it or not. I saw it at the Sensplex earlier in the summer.

Guys like Alfie and Phillips would NEVER pull that with fans. Real leaders.
A guy that babysat Alfredsson's children? Yeah he is a real jackass. I doubt highly he would blow off an autograph. Not from the stories I've heard.

DylanSensFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 02:30 PM
  #69
saskriders
ColinGreening's#1fan
 
saskriders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,489
vCash: 1322
I wonder how many people here would like to have everyone trying to get their attention everywhere they went.

saskriders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 02:40 PM
  #70
John Holmes
Spuds MacLean™
 
John Holmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,721
vCash: 87
I don't know what you think I stand to gain by inventing a story about Karlsson.

Maybe Don Brennan will grow testicles and name the player he blogged about.

In any case, at the time the lockout was still looming as a possibility. There is definitely a time when players and management need to step up their fan relations game, and I think that what I witnessed was a missed opportunity to do so at the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
A guy that babysat Alfredsson's children? Yeah he is a real jackass. I doubt highly he would blow off an autograph. Not from the stories I've heard.


Sorry, anyone that babysat Alfredsson's children is beyond reproach.

My bad.

John Holmes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 02:43 PM
  #71
Niv
Registered Hater
 
Niv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,727
vCash: 50
Are you guys seriously debating who should be the next captain based on very specific positive/negative encounters with fans?

Niv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 02:51 PM
  #72
benjiv1
Registered User
 
benjiv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttawaFanBen View Post
Are you guys seriously debating who should be the next captain based on very specific positive/negative encounters with fans?
Yes and No. JH was arguing that based on his personal experience, he doesn't think Karlsson is captain material, partially because of how he saw him interact with fans.

I rebutted, stating I have only had positive experiences with Karlsson, while having witnessed negative experiences with Alfredsson and Phillips, who are the current leaders of the team.

It's funny, I haven't even named who I think will be captain! Here's my guess! (I think Spezza is gone in 5 years, Ottawa will draft another #1 Centre and trade Spetz for a #1 winger)

C) Silfverberg
A) Michalek
A) Turris

I also predict that Robin Lehner will have a huge leadership roll with the team.

benjiv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 03:07 PM
  #73
CanadianHockey
On the Alfie Wagon
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: uOttawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,384
vCash: 2391
When Alfie retires the role of captain goes to Phillips, whether they give him the C or just roll with 3 As.

Phillips - C
Spezza - A
Neil - A

I figure Phillips and Neil are both going to retire at about the same time. Probably ~5 years from now. The C goes to Spezza, and the two As goes to one forward and one defenceman. Based on our projected core going forward, it'll be one of Zibby, Silfv, or Stone, and one of Karlsson or Cowen. If Michalek is still around, he could get an A instead of one of those guys.

Obviously this is contingent on a couple things, namely Phillips/Neil/Spezz being lifelong Senators and the team making no major additions from the group of five young players I listed above.

__________________
CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada

Last edited by CanadianHockey: 10-22-2012 at 03:15 PM.
CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 03:19 PM
  #74
DylanSensFan
Walk On!
 
DylanSensFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,445
vCash: 1470
I am not debating whether or not Karlsson should be camping, just his character in general.

I believe it will be Spezza (C), Karlsson (A), Silfverberg or Zibanejad(A). Cowen could sneak in for the C or the A.

DylanSensFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 03:20 PM
  #75
John Holmes
Spuds MacLean™
 
John Holmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,721
vCash: 87
I wouldn't be surprised if Phillips retires before Alfie. Based on last year, Phillips looks almost finished, and Alfie looks like he could go a few more seasons.

When Alfredsson was hurt, Spezza clearly stepped up and showed that he is a guy that can lead the team. He will no question be the next Captain.

I also don't think he is going anywhere after this deal. The organization has shown that they can be loyal to certain players. Alfredsson, Phillips, even Neil have stayed when they could have left and probably got more money elsewhere.

Ottawa is a good place to be. Spezza has such strong ties to the community - his wife is local, his kids are growing up here...his family in TO is not far away at all. I really can't see him leaving.

As long as he gets paid fairly, why would he want to go anywhere else? By that time we should be in contender mode, or damn close to it, assuming that a couple of our many prospects pan out.

John Holmes is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.