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Ed Jovanovski

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10-15-2012, 09:57 PM
  #1
VerySuperFamous
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Ed Jovanovski

Is he a disappointment, for 1st overall in your opinion? Scouting wasn't great and weaker draft, with a few gems.

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10-15-2012, 11:11 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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not only did he help them make a stanley cup finals, he also got the panthers back the best player in their team's history in a trade. i don't think they're too disappointed in taking him #1.

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10-15-2012, 11:18 PM
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Mike Farkas
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Wasn't he supposed to be like the future captain of Canada's olympic teams and what not? I guess maybe a couple players have been given such a prediction...but I thought I remember hearing it with Jovocop when he came out...

Late starter, is he not? I don't think he's one of those "started skating at 6 months old" type of kids, but I could be wrong there too...

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10-15-2012, 11:37 PM
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Wasn't he supposed to be like the future captain of Canada's olympic teams and what not? I guess maybe a couple players have been given such a prediction...but I thought I remember hearing it with Jovocop when he came out...

Late starter, is he not? I don't think he's one of those "started skating at 6 months old" type of kids, but I could be wrong there too...
Memory has it that he didn't play organized hockey till age 11 or something which makes him going #1 pretty incredible, weak draft or not.

I guess he could be termed a disappointment but he has hung around for quite a few years and style changes as well.

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10-16-2012, 12:02 AM
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Weak draft, a player who just never had a great head for the game, possibly because of the late start. Amazing physical tools.

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10-16-2012, 12:44 AM
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He could have been the next Scott Stevens, or at least Rob Blake, if he had a decent sense for the game. Certainly showed signs of it as a rookie in Florida (where he held his own against Eric Lindros physically in the playoffs). But he never was able to put it together. So in that sense, yes, he was a disappointment.

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10-16-2012, 01:06 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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i'm not sure jovo was a disappointment. consistently, people looked at the tools and overrated him. he was what he was, a very good puck rusher who hit really hard. he wasn't ohlund, and he certainly wasn't rob blake.

could he have been? i don't know that most people who saw him play regularly ever truly thought so. it's not like he was a lazy guy like kevin hatcher; jovo left it all on the ice every night. but you knew from watching him play a few consecutive games that he didn't have the "it" that separates the good from the great.

but for a first overall pick, he's coming up on 1,100 games, he was an all-star, won an olympic gold medal, and was one of the five best non-goalies of the draft. arguably as high as third, though i'd put him behind ohlund. if we're calling jovo a disappointment, then are hamrlik and phillips disappointments?

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10-16-2012, 01:48 AM
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Not too many players make that kind of splash as a rookie, absolutely hit a wall after that, and don't have some kind of injury or personality issue to blame. Let alone do all that and still be in the league close to 20 years later. Weird career.

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10-16-2012, 03:57 AM
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begbeee
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I am on board with Vadim Sh..
Jovanovski is what he is, but I can't call him a dissapointment. There are thousends players who dream of playing 1000+ games in NHL and winnig an olympic gold. He had a rocket start in his career so it could change our perception of him. He never reached that "great" status but he put together a bunch of very good seasons and is good enough to play pre- or post- lockout hockey what is impressive, because there was a good amount of defensmen of his type who didnt came through it in 2005.

I don't like all the threads where guys like Hamrlik, Gratton or Jovanovski are called dissapointments. They did not reach their projection of course, but call them a dissapointment? Come'on!

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10-16-2012, 12:37 PM
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Yes, the guy is a disappointment as a #1 pick. That said he did show many moments of brilliance early in his career.

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10-16-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
could he have been? i don't know that most people who saw him play regularly ever truly thought so. it's not like he was a lazy guy like kevin hatcher; jovo left it all on the ice every night. but you knew from watching him play a few consecutive games that he didn't have the "it" that separates the good from the great.
I know this is always the take of most Canuck fans, and it’s always grated on me.

Did he have issues thinking the game? Yeah. But he also had major issues with his consistency and effort levels. He would have games/stretches where he had what Tom Larscheid always called his ‘happy feet’ where he would skate miles, be all over the ice, smash people, and his skating and effort level covered up his hockey sense issues. When he played like that, he was dominant, and approaching elite defender status.

Problem is that that Jovo showed up maybe 1/3 of the time. His time as a Canuck was punctuated by very long stretches of indifferent play where he didn’t move his feet, wasn’t involved physically, and just didn’t seem to be engaged at all. Then he’d score a big goal, have an emotional celebration, and the fanbase would be ‘Oh, that Jovo! He’s all heart!’

Same thing in Florida – he showed up hitting everything in sight in his first year, and the rap on him by his 4th year when he was traded was that he was just blending into the woodwork on a lot of nights.

Guys with ‘heart’ bring it every night. Jovanovski did not.

Interesting player in that regard – Shane Corson (who, ironically, Jovanovski feuded with for several years) had a similar sort of mentality/pattern. Was capable of great, gritty performances, but also equally capable of being very lazy and uninvolved for long stretches. Normally as fans we equate ‘grit’ with ‘consistent effort’ but that’s not always the case.

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10-17-2012, 12:17 AM
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I know this is always the take of most Canuck fans, and it’s always grated on me.

Did he have issues thinking the game? Yeah. But he also had major issues with his consistency and effort levels. He would have games/stretches where he had what Tom Larscheid always called his ‘happy feet’ where he would skate miles, be all over the ice, smash people, and his skating and effort level covered up his hockey sense issues. When he played like that, he was dominant, and approaching elite defender status.

Problem is that that Jovo showed up maybe 1/3 of the time. His time as a Canuck was punctuated by very long stretches of indifferent play where he didn’t move his feet, wasn’t involved physically, and just didn’t seem to be engaged at all. Then he’d score a big goal, have an emotional celebration, and the fanbase would be ‘Oh, that Jovo! He’s all heart!’

Same thing in Florida – he showed up hitting everything in sight in his first year, and the rap on him by his 4th year when he was traded was that he was just blending into the woodwork on a lot of nights.

Guys with ‘heart’ bring it every night. Jovanovski did not.

Interesting player in that regard – Shane Corson (who, ironically, Jovanovski feuded with for several years) had a similar sort of mentality/pattern. Was capable of great, gritty performances, but also equally capable of being very lazy and uninvolved for long stretches. Normally as fans we equate ‘grit’ with ‘consistent effort’ but that’s not always the case.
I think it's because of how he played a different 1/3rd of the time.

I always felt there was three Jovanovski's:
"Happy Feet" Jovocop - A modern day Larry Robinson that excelled at rushing the puck and physical defense.
Ed Jovanovski - An average 1st/2nd pairing d-man, not consistent or focused, but not bad either. Balanced player.
Special Ed - Played like he had never played the game of hockey before. Often a liability.

It was Special Ed that looked like a player without a mind for the game. He'd usually play hard to get out of the funk, but he played hard like crap.

Where as regular old Ed Jovanovski is the guy you described. A talented d-man who didn't see to care enough to achieve his potential.

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10-17-2012, 12:26 AM
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I don't like all the threads where guys like Hamrlik, Gratton or Jovanovski are called dissapointments. They did not reach their projection of course, but call them a dissapointment? Come'on!
hum...........

Disappointment is the feeling of dissatisfaction that follows the failure of expectations or hopes to manifest.

If you feel that those guy did not reach their projection of course that you expected from them, you feel exactly that disappointed.

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10-17-2012, 12:46 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I think it's because of how he played a different 1/3rd of the time.

I always felt there was three Jovanovski's:
"Happy Feet" Jovocop - A modern day Larry Robinson that excelled at rushing the puck and physical defense.
Ed Jovanovski - An average 1st/2nd pairing d-man, not consistent or focused, but not bad either. Balanced player.
Special Ed - Played like he had never played the game of hockey before. Often a liability.

It was Special Ed that looked like a player without a mind for the game. He'd usually play hard to get out of the funk, but he played hard like crap.

Where as regular old Ed Jovanovski is the guy you described. A talented d-man who didn't see to care enough to achieve his potential.
i feel like i didn't see that "regular old ed jovanovski" that MS described as often as he says he did. and as you say, special ed, while frustrating as all hell, never seemed like he wasn't trying. too hard is more like it.

but then i'm willing to consider that i don't remember this lackadaisical jovo as much as i should because my clearest memories of that era are of lackadaisical bertuzzi, who was among the worst and most disappointing ever in terms of not giving a crap and scratching his balls instead of trying to dominate the opposition like he could. anyone would look like he was trying next to that p.o.s.

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10-17-2012, 12:52 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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i do kind of remember this one time where didn't jovo turning into a puttycat for a while after the deadmarsh fight?

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10-17-2012, 10:14 AM
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He is called Jovoflop for a reason. The thing about Jovo was that he seemed like he couldnt decide on what type of defenseman he wanted to be. Inconsistent characteristics. He is solid but were not worth a #1 pick.

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10-19-2012, 11:24 PM
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hum...........

Disappointment is the feeling of dissatisfaction that follows the failure of expectations or hopes to manifest.

If you feel that those guy did not reach their projection of course that you expected from them, you feel exactly that disappointed.
Then most players are disappointments right?

Projections are often peak potential, not some freakish 10 year plus elite plateau that only a few players in each generation attain.

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10-19-2012, 11:49 PM
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I know he's basically done now but he's been injury prone in his career especially since the olympics so that really brought him down. He had a 46 pt season with 67 games in 02/03 and then a 51 pt season in 07/08 but injuries leading to less in between. I think he was a pretty good dman, a true no1 for a decent amount of time.

If I was to put together a list of 100 greatest dmen, I'd probably have him ahead of some player who played 400 games in the 20s or 30s unlike most here. About 0.5 ppg over 1000+ games and good defence while playing the majority of your career in the dead puck and deadpuck 2.0 era is fairly impressive in my opinion.

Btw I never knew he was drafted 1st overall till recently since I started watching hockey in the mid-nineties after he was drafted so maybe that's why I hold him in higher regard than most. With that said, I'd never ever draft a dman no1 overall (cough Jones instead of MacKinnon cough).

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10-19-2012, 11:52 PM
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I agree strongly with Vadim's description of Jovo.
I don't think when you watched him play regularly you were left with a sense of "what if...?"
He was what he was. A guy with a good skill level, some great attributes, but his hockey sense was not at an all star level. His skills however were.
I think this "Special Ed" stuff was a joke too. He was not a great defensive player, but There are a lot of players in that category.

I was glad to get rid of him (or to let him walk) when the time came because he was not worth the money.
He wanted to be paid like a top end 2 way d-man, who plays a physical game, but the truth is by the end of his Canucks run (maybe the last couple of years) he was not a physical player anymore. He had carved out a reputation and was riding that to a home run contract.

When he was on his game, he was great to watch...in a way, kind of like Edler now. People still keep holding out hope that Edler will one day put it altogether and become an elite NHL d-man. I don't see it ever happening. He can play that way for stretches when his confidence is sky high, but the rest of the time he's a guy with a lot of good attributes that makes him an effective top pairing dman.

His KO game against the Av's was one of the better all round games for a Nucks dman in team history. Jovo was a beast that game in every facet.

I don't think he is a disappointment at all. It was a weak draft. When he was drafted, if you asked all the GMs at the time what they would think of an 1100 game career, I think there would have been a lot more GMs trying to jump up and get the first pick. I don't think many reasonable hockey people saw Jovo as a superstar in the making when he was drafted, did they?

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10-20-2012, 12:00 AM
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Vadim,
I'd like to say I always enjoy reading your posts. Always well thought out, and your knowledge base is second to none.
Maybe you can start a topic on "The Sheriff" and what Brian Burke saw in him to warrant a 2nd rounder (and how in the world you chose to make him your namesake?) for his 2 Remaining NHL goals...

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10-21-2012, 04:22 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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Vadim,
I'd like to say I always enjoy reading your posts. Always well thought out, and your knowledge base is second to none.
Maybe you can start a topic on "The Sheriff" and what Brian Burke saw in him to warrant a 2nd rounder (and how in the world you chose to make him your namesake?) for his 2 Remaining NHL goals...
aw shucks.

i have to admit, i never actually saw vadim sharifijanov play while he was in vancouver. my only real memory of him is at the WJC after his draft year-- the year of canada's first dream team, but the sheriff was excellent.

there's also this:




what was burke thinking throwing away a 2nd rounder and swapping 3rd round picks (moving down 26 spots in the round) on this guy? well, burke loved chucking solid picks to pick up busts, gambling on another bertuzzi situation (and, to bring this a little less off-topic, to a lesser degree you could say that jovo was also a bit of a salvage/reclamation project).

so many high picks and former junior stars came through on burke's watch: scott lachance, drake berehowsky, nolan baumgartner, brandon convery, todd warriner, josh green, fedor fedorov...

and with the sharifijanov trade, those were "extra picks" that he got from previous deals (the 2nd was from the potvin trade; the third was from atlanta when they swapped first rounders in the sedin trades), so it probably seemed to him like you might as well turn a 2nd and a 3rd into a potentially NHL-ready 1st rounder. turned out not to be the wisest gamble, at least if rumours can be believed, as sharifijanov reportedly admitted to using steroids but stopped before going to vancouver (unconfirmed; used to be on, but has since been taken off, his wikipedia entry). people point to his dramatic weight loss between his NJ years and his time in vancouver as evidence, as well as his hockey career being over by 27.

as for why i chose his name as my username, the last pack of hockey cards i ever bought came with this card:





this was two years before he would dominate the tournament, and before he was even draft eligible. i loved his name, made a point to follow him at the new WJC, and twenty years later here we are.

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10-21-2012, 07:53 PM
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Sharifijanov looked impressive as a rookie in NJ when he was roided-up and built like a tank. He spent the rest of his career shrinking physically and playing worse as he shrunk.

He scored 17 seconds into his first shift as a Canuck when a weird bounce off the end boards on a dump-in went straight to him with the goalie out of position. After that, he was utterly horrendous despite being given a pile of 2nd line minutes for about a dozen games.

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10-21-2012, 08:06 PM
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I can't help but notice they typo'd his name.

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10-21-2012, 08:16 PM
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Late Starters

Late starters, hockey in general or at a specific position, often see the lack of early fundamentals catch-up to them.

Few examples - Yvon Lambert skating, Ed Jovanovski situation recognition and reaction. Roberto Loungo a few mobility issues.

Even the ones that adapt well still show old habits at times. Larry Robinson converted to defence for his last junior season would at times make forward type hits.

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10-21-2012, 10:13 PM
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I kind of had big expectations when we acquired him. I was drinking the abrian Burke kool aid at the time, and thought this guy was a sniper who just needed to get out of New Jersey and their all out defense first philosophy.

After a few games of watching him, I had no idea what skills Burke saw in him. I still kep waiting for him to start scoring, but...

Anyways, I had never heard the steroid rumors. That could definitely explain things.
What I recall of him, he he was a slower skater...I think on one of the cards above they mention his skating as a strength. Perhaps that was part of what he lost without the steroids???

Canadians1958...
Interesting hypothesis. I could see that being the case, especially as it related to the mental aspect of the game (things like defensive awareness, or being able to recognize plays developing).

In Luongo's case I think his mobility issues are said to be because of his bow legged stature. I've never seen him in person, so I can not confirm that, but, I've heard the theory put forth that when he's in the butterfly position he has a difficult time leaning his torso out laterally to either side because of the genetic makeup of his legs. Anyone else hear that?

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