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FOX movie of the week - There and Back Again: The John Farrell Story*

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10-22-2012, 11:58 PM
  #126
dredeye
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
I haven't heard a lot of talk about Grenikie. I no he will command top dollar but if management is seriously willing to spend is there a better player to give it too? The guy is a legit ace.
Who's Grenikie

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10-23-2012, 12:09 AM
  #127
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I haven't heard a lot of talk about Grenikie. I no he will command top dollar but if management is seriously willing to spend is there a better player to give it too? The guy is a legit ace.
You're right that Greinke is the best pitcher in a bad FA class. Leaving aside the fact that he'll receive top offers from a number of teams, there have been numerous reports that Greinke has had Toronto on his "no" list for trade destinations for some time now. Not sure if it's because of his social anxiety issues or what, but he apparently doesn't want to come here.

There are some very good #3 and #4 options available to sign - and you can expect at least one of them to do just that - but a front of the rotation starter is pretty much going to have to come via trade.

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10-23-2012, 04:19 AM
  #128
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Going forward I don't think the AL East threat will be so severe as past years. The tides are finally turning with Baltimore rising to the top, and Boston and Tampa Bay falling fast. Hell the Yankees won't be a superpower in a couple years as Jeter, Swisher and possibly Granderson move on. A Rod is dead weight and Teixeira seems to be breaking down physically.

A guy like Loshe would be a solid innings eater for us, and be a great leader on a young staff. I would have no problems with AA going after him this summer.

Tampa isn't falling at all. The reason they didnt make playoffs is because they couldnt score enough runs. Best pitching staff in majors. They need to add a hitter via free agency. Someone like Alfonso Soriano where Cubbies would pick up large portion of $$$ he's owed makes tons of sense. They'll lose Upton but I think Jennings is ready to replace his production. Healthy Longoria would help too.

Rays won 90 games. I dont see why they can't win 90 or more again next year.

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10-23-2012, 04:23 AM
  #129
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If d'Arnaud is healthy come training camp theres no reason that he shouldnt be a regular within 2 months. He was arguably the best player in AAA before getting injured and hes also going to be 24 years old so hes pretty mature as a prospect. d'Arnaud should either be traded this offseason or be a regular within 1-2 months. Him spending another full year in the minors seems like massive overkill.

I think he'll be up come early July to delay his arbitration clock.

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10-23-2012, 06:53 AM
  #130
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Tampa isn't falling at all. The reason they didnt make playoffs is because they couldnt score enough runs. Best pitching staff in majors. They need to add a hitter via free agency. Someone like Alfonso Soriano where Cubbies would pick up large portion of $$$ he's owed makes tons of sense. They'll lose Upton but I think Jennings is ready to replace his production. Healthy Longoria would help too.

Rays won 90 games. I dont see why they can't win 90 or more again next year.
I just meant their offense isn't a threat to any pitcher the Jays may acquire. They do win their share of games, especially against the Jays, but if AA can assemble a half decent rotation I don't think they'll be such a threat going forward.

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10-23-2012, 06:58 AM
  #131
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What about Marcum? Bring him back?

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10-23-2012, 07:21 AM
  #132
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What about Marcum? Bring him back?
Someone like him in the 3/4 slot. Marcum has expressed interest in returning, although his injury woes would give me pause.

In a new wrinkle, however, Blair yesterday morning said something to suggest that Anthopolous has an issue with Marcum's clubhouse presence or off-field issues (he did not elaborate), and that there was no chancearcum would be brought back to Toronto as long as Anthopolous was GM.

While it was the first I'd heard of any such issue, and people have differing opinions on Blair, he's in the clubhouse more and speaks to many people close to the Jays more often than any of us. I doubt he'd have stated something so explicitly if he didn't have strong reason to believe it was true.

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10-23-2012, 08:30 AM
  #133
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Someone like him in the 3/4 slot. Marcum has expressed interest in returning, although his injury woes would give me pause.

In a new wrinkle, however, Blair yesterday morning said something to suggest that Anthopolous has an issue with Marcum's clubhouse presence or off-field issues (he did not elaborate), and that there was no chancearcum would be brought back to Toronto as long as Anthopolous was GM.

While it was the first I'd heard of any such issue, and people have differing opinions on Blair, he's in the clubhouse more and speaks to many people close to the Jays more often than any of us. I doubt he'd have stated something so explicitly if he didn't have strong reason to believe it was true.
Yeah, it is the first I hear about it. He is still in his prime and him not being a heat thrower may extend that arm by a couple of seasons. I say it would be stupid to pass him along, we can probably get him at a really good price too.

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10-23-2012, 08:42 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Anthrax442 View Post
Yeah, it is the first I hear about it. He is still in his prime and him not being a heat thrower may extend that arm by a couple of seasons. I say it would be stupid to pass him along, we can probably get him at a really good price too.
There are lots of options out there, including better pitchers with fewer injury concerns. I wouldn't be too concerned about Marcum.

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10-23-2012, 08:52 AM
  #135
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There are lots of options out there, including better pitchers with fewer injury concerns. I wouldn't be too concerned about Marcum.
Wee, for one, it will be a good move for the fans. #2 is he will be relatively cheap. We don't know what will be of Romero, so we need all the help we can get. JA Happ and Alvarez can only get you that far.

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10-23-2012, 09:14 AM
  #136
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Wee, for one, it will be a good move for the fans. #2 is he will be relatively cheap. We don't know what will be of Romero, so we need all the help we can get. JA Happ and Alvarez can only get you that far.
While I do agree that Marcum would be a great addition to our starting rotation, I think the last thing the Jay's need right now is another distraction in the club house (as per Jeff Blair).

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:21 AM
  #137
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i heard boston likely only will offer Ortiz a 1yr deal
we could have him on a 2yr deal
risky, but a good feel to it

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10-23-2012, 09:28 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Anthrax442 View Post
Wee, for one, it will be a good move for the fans. #2 is he will be relatively cheap. We don't know what will be of Romero, so we need all the help we can get. JA Happ and Alvarez can only get you that far.
Romero will most likely bounce back and be a good #3, Happ will be a good #5, Alvarez will start the year in Buffalo to work on his pitch repertoire. That leaves the team, as its presently comprised, with a need for a #2\1 and #4. Marcum fits the need for a #4, but as Mr. Jones previously stated, there are about five or six free agents that fit that mold as well. Those other half dozen or so options may come injury and drama free as well.

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10-23-2012, 09:29 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
i heard boston likely only will offer Ortiz a 1yr deal
we could have him on a 2yr deal
risky, but a good feel to it
He sounded very happy about the John Farrell addition. My bet is he stays in Boston.

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10-23-2012, 09:31 AM
  #140
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He sounded very happy about the John Farrell addition. My bet is he stays in Boston.
I think he'll also get another 2 year deal from them.

I hope we name a manager by the end of the week. I'm so sick of hearing about Farrell and the Jays managing situation already.

Lets get someone in place, get this WS done with, and get to the offseason.

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10-23-2012, 09:33 AM
  #141
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we'll see
not that there aren't other options

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10-23-2012, 09:34 AM
  #142
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I would try to stay away from players that come from other poisonous environments to try to solve our own problems.

Romero's collapse was big enough to have real concerns about his future. It wasn't a stretch, it was pretty much the full season, even when he was winning, he was all over the place and his ERA and WHIP where uncommonly high.

btw Would anyone risk dealing RR for Lincecum?

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10-23-2012, 09:37 AM
  #143
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I would try to stay away from players that come from other poisonous environments to try to solve our own problems.

Romero's collapse was big enough to have real concerns about his future. It wasn't a stretch, it was pretty much the full season, even when he was winning, he was all over the place and his ERA and WHIP where uncommonly high.

btw Would anyone risk dealing RR for Lincecum?
I wouldn't.

They were pretty much equal this year in terms of sucking.

Lincecum has a massive contract that expires after next season. RR is under team control for longer at a better number.

Hypothetically if both returned to their pre 2012 form, I'd want Ricky for two years with a chance to resign him than Lincecum for one and watch him bolt to FA.

On top of that I'd rather stick with a guy who had control issues than a guy who lost 5mph on his fb. For RR I think it was all in his head and snowballed. For Lincecum it may have been years of flawed mechancis finally catching up to him.

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10-23-2012, 09:39 AM
  #144
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This Lind conversation completely changed my mind about the whole Farrell issue. He sounded like Farrell betrayed them and took some subtle shots at him. Found it interesting when he talked about how Farrell never brought any knowledge of the Red Sox pitchers to the Blue Jays and was surprised considering he was the former pitching coach in Boston. Thought Wilner saved him from saying something he would regret a few times by changing the subject.
Funny Lind wants to snipe when he stunk it up this year. Lind actually sounds like a huge baby in all of this. This is classic deflection of blaming the manager for things when your season doesn't work out. Hopefully other players will just shut up.

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10-23-2012, 09:44 AM
  #145
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I think he'll also get another 2 year deal from them.

I hope we name a manager by the end of the week. I'm so sick of hearing about Farrell and the Jays managing situation already.

Lets get someone in place, get this WS done with, and get to the offseason.
During the WS you will not hear anything about the Jays hiring a new manager.

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10-23-2012, 09:50 AM
  #146
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From Rogers.
Lulz... this post wins this and the last thread.

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10-23-2012, 09:54 AM
  #147
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During the WS you will not hear anything about the Jays hiring a new manager.
I don't see why not.

MLB discourages teams from making announcements before the WS is completed.

Our division rival just traded for and announced their new manager.

Cleveland did so in the middle of the first round as well.

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10-23-2012, 09:54 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
Lulz... this post wins this and the last thread.
I like it.

I'm going to the Rogers head office today I'll put in a good word to spend some money

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10-23-2012, 09:57 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Anthrax442 View Post
I would try to stay away from players that come from other poisonous environments to try to solve our own problems.

Romero's collapse was big enough to have real concerns about his future. It wasn't a stretch, it was pretty much the full season, even when he was winning, he was all over the place and his ERA and WHIP where uncommonly high.

btw Would anyone risk dealing RR for Lincecum?
No. Ricky Romero holds more value to me, and a cost conscious organization, because of his contract. Though there are many similarities between the two and their personal declines, there are some major differences as well. Lincecum's struggles branch from his consistently declining velocity. He's a pitcher who relies on his fastball to give his other pitches added value. On the surface, he had a very poor year (5.16 ERA) however, his sabremetrics numbers suggest that he wasn't that bad. His xFIP of 3.82 is a good mark, and proves that he was very unlucky in 2012. Still, that consistent dip in velocity is a red flag.

Ricky, on the other hand, seems to have more of a mental issue. His xFIP was almost a run lower than his ERA, though it was still horrid. I've tried to pinpoint his deficiencies all year, and though watching his starts was painful, it did provide some obvious answers. First of all, we as fans and Ricky himself need to get the idea of his 2011 being the norm out of our heads. He was one of the luckiest pitchers in baseball, sporting a ridiculous strand rate and a clear cut difference from ERA to FIP (over a run lower). These signs themselves suggested that he would regress to a not so spectacular season in '12. Such a falloff, however, was far more than I expected.

The main issue I saw in Ricky this year early on in his slide was his inability to spot and command his fastball. He hasn't lost any velocity, but the control on that pitch was a major issue. He knew it, the coaching staff knew it, and the other team's knew it. Eventually, deep in his slide, he would try to jump ahead with BP fastballs when his cutter or 4seamer weren't getting over. This leads to a lot of hits, and of course leads to your other secondary offerings, even his great changeup, losing value as well.

I'll digress, but the two main issues Ricky needs to work on this off-season are firstly, his mental state (which has been something he has worked on time and again since college) and his fastball command. These are both fixable issues. While Lincecum's issues are physical and rarely (if ever) are fixed. If Romero gets his fastball command back, his pitch values will go back up, and he'll return to his usual sub 3.90 xFIP.

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10-23-2012, 09:57 AM
  #150
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DOn't think Toronto is big enough market to cause a huge distraction from the playoffs.

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