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NHLPA annoyed with circumvention of negotiations

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:29 PM
  #51
onlyalad
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What did the memo say?
If a player contacts you,
You can state what the offer is and tell the player to contact the NHLPA with any questions.


Fehr should be mad. It means pkayers trust owners more than him. The fact that the NHL had to send a memo means Fehr isnt in as much control as he thought.

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10-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by zytz View Post
So people are mad at the owners when it's the players going around Fehr to ask questions?
Apparently Fehr claims the owners are the ones calling up players... Daly claims a number of players called the NHL to ask about the offer...

Daly says the NHL agreed to owners talking to players directly.

I am sceptical of Fehr here... billionaires have time in their day to scheme to call multiple players?

Ya... I doubt that...

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10-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
That doesn't matter in a legal sense. The courts are there to decide whether or not the NHL's actions were legal in accordance with the law, not to decide that it was ok because the PA did not give the players enough information.
Agreed. Courts aren't going to look at how valid the league may or may not have been in speaking with the players, they're going to look at the process in which they did so and if they followed the laws in place.

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10-23-2012, 12:31 PM
  #54
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If players want to talk to the owners than tough ****. If it takes players going around Fehr to get a deal done then so be it.

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10-23-2012, 12:32 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
pld459666,

I don't see how involving the courts is really going to help the situation. If i was a player I would rather not provoke the league into using its cancel season card.
But it's OK for the league to use every advantage they have to get the union to knuckle under?

I hope every player that went overses stays there once an agreement has been reached. See how that would affect these owners.

It's amazing that you think it's OK for the league to play hardball with the players, but it's not OK for the players to do the same?

sad.

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10-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
But it's OK for the league to use every advantage they have to get the union to knuckle under?

I hope every player that went overses stays there once an agreement has been reached. See how that would affect these owners.

It's amazing that you think it's OK for the league to play hardball with the players, but it's not OK for the players to do the same?

sad.
if the players want to whine to the courts then they can go right ahead. Going through the courts takes time and effort where they could use that effort to negotiate. At some point the league is going to say enough and cancel the season completely.

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10-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I deal with legal cases regarding all sorts of issues. Most of them are straight jobs that are cookie cutter in essence.

The one thing that is ALWAYS up for guess work is how a Judge is going to rule.

If you move in that direction and you get denied you are no worse off. If you win, that becomes an interesting situation.

But to discount it because some macho BS? sorry, that's not in the playbook.

forgot to mention, any court action doesn't have to be in place of negotiations. It can be done WHILE negotiations are on going.
Oh, I agree with you on the "coward's tactics" being straight nonsense. Likewise, I am aware a Judges can have rather varying opinions on each case. That does not change this would accomplish very little except irritating the owners. Do you honestly believe any negotiations would continue if the PA went this route? Look at the lockout dispute with Ontario, Quebec and Alberta. The PA did nothing until all three were thrown out, although there is some murmurs will Quebec.

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10-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyalad View Post
What did the memo say?
If a player contacts you,
You can state what the offer is and tell the player to contact the NHLPA with any questions.


Fehr should be mad. It means pkayers trust owners more than him. The fact that the NHL had to send a memo means Fehr isnt in as much control as he thought.
I had a chance to sit in on a conversation with a 5th/6th defenseman recently and for "a lot of players like" him, there is an over all feeling of being misled by the PA. This guy, in particular, had a call in with his GM wondering what the "make whole" scenario was, as it was not explained well on the PA's conference call a week ago.

/shrug

It was characterized by Fehr as "players making the player whole later on", not the owners. My understanding of the "make whole" scenario is that the owners would take it out of their percentage, after a 50/50 deal is reached...

Take it for what you will. Like I said, I just sat in on the conversation and didn't really take an active part.

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10-23-2012, 12:37 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
But it's OK for the league to use every advantage they have to get the union to knuckle under?

I hope every player that went overses stays there once an agreement has been reached. See how that would affect these owners.

It's amazing that you think it's OK for the league to play hardball with the players, but it's not OK for the players to do the same?

sad.
Knuckle under in what regard?

Based on the proposals as I know them both sides agree to 50/50 split and both agree the current contracts need to be paid, it's just how/when they are paid.

Then there's the small worries and changes by the NHL that they have said many times they will negotiate on.

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10-23-2012, 12:37 PM
  #60
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Question for the panel...

Can anyone see this as an opportunity for the PA to come back and say they won't pursue the NLRB to take up this manner if you accept one of the 3 proposals from last week? I know it seems like a reach on my part to ask but, these series of events in the last 10 days have really left me dumbfounded.

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10-23-2012, 12:38 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
But it's OK for the league to use every advantage they have to get the union to knuckle under?

I hope every player that went overses stays there once an agreement has been reached. See how that would affect these owners.

It's amazing that you think it's OK for the league to play hardball with the players, but it's not OK for the players to do the same?

sad.
That would save the owners millions! I'm sure Washington would be happy to declare Ovechkin's onerous deal null-and-void if he decides he'd rather play in the KHL. Seriously, I'd make it a part of the new deal - if a player wants to shred his NHL contract, have at it. I bet somewhere around 0 players would make that choice, unfortunately.

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10-23-2012, 12:39 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
Like any leader Fehr is spinning and shaping the information he releases so I would stop trying to turn the guy into a labour saint. From what I have read, seen and been told by union guys this situation is an unecessary mess and should have turned out differently.

I keep wondering why the PA didn't turn to union types like Buzz Hargrove or any of the former coal miners in Cape Breton who actually play and understand the game.
So, I am to assume you have spoken to NHL Union Members? Nice that you have those relationships.

The question I have is, How many have taken the time to attend the meetings?

It's an unnecessary mess because the NHL wanted to take back everything that the players got in the last round of negotiations and then some.

They still want a roll back in salaries, they want massive coincessions in the form of elimination of the Arb. Process, ELC's, Free Agency, Contract Lenths and Structure.

They hired Fehr because he was the best man for the job.

Getting a former player that was used to getting shafted deal over deal would perpetuate the same screw job that he was accustomed to when he was a player.

The owners showed the players the ugly side of the business, the players are now getting caught up in learning how to play THAT sort of game.

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10-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #63
Dirty Kari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Question for the panel...

Can anyone see this as an opportunity for the PA to come back and say they won't pursue the NLRB to take up this manner if you accept one of the 3 proposals from last week? I know it seems like a reach on my part to ask but, these series of events in the last 10 days have really left me dumbfounded.
No way.

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10-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Question for the panel...

Can anyone see this as an opportunity for the PA to come back and say they won't pursue the NLRB to take up this manner if you accept one of the 3 proposals from last week? I know it seems like a reach on my part to ask but, these series of events in the last 10 days have really left me dumbfounded.
They could attempt it but i don't think the league is going to gave. Why give ammo to the PA?

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10-23-2012, 12:41 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
...any court action doesn't have to be in place of negotiations. It can be done WHILE negotiations are on going.
... not familiar with the process in the US. Would the PA file a grievance with the NLRB followed by a quasi legal hearing of some sort or would they seek redress through the courts? And in what jurisdiction if through the courts; NY and or Toronto?

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10-23-2012, 12:41 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... I agree. Its blatantly obvious what the NHL's cooking up in their kitchen's, and any suggestion that Fehr would feel it necessary to withhold inf from his constituents, even think about doing so is absolutely anathema to everything we know about the guy, the manner in which he's conducted himself & union business over the past near on 30yrs. Propaganda floated to creative an environment of divisive second guessing, designed to exacerbate the levels of mistrust & cynicism. The NHL plays Hardball, takes no prisoners.
Which is exactly why I side with the players. I honestly hope the season is cancelled just to watch Minni and Nashville pay those signing bonus without 1 ticket being sold and ZERO revenue coming in from revenue sharing, As far as its not Nashville fault for the Weber deal, they didnt have to match and if they did because Weber is the face of thier franchise then deal with the signing bonus.

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10-23-2012, 12:41 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
That would save the owners millions! I'm sure Washington would be happy to declare Ovechkin's onerous deal null-and-void if he decides he'd rather play in the KHL. Seriously, I'd make it a part of the new deal - if a player wants to shred his NHL contract, have at it. I bet somewhere around 0 players would make that choice, unfortunately.
It would also cost them millions.

Using OV and an example, Washington would lose more than they would save as would most teams that lost their BEST players.

Imagine the Caps did that and he came back after a year.

The contract is, according to you, null and void. He would then be able to sign anywhere.

I wonder if they would do that?

NOT!

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10-23-2012, 12:43 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
forgot to mention, any court action doesn't have to be in place of negotiations. It can be done WHILE negotiations are on going.
Why would the league want to continue negotiations if the players don't want to.

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10-23-2012, 12:43 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Question for the panel...

Can anyone see this as an opportunity for the PA to come back and say they won't pursue the NLRB to take up this manner if you accept one of the 3 proposals from last week? I know it seems like a reach on my part to ask but, these series of events in the last 10 days have really left me dumbfounded.
Wouldn't that be blackmail on the part of the PA? I don't think they're going to do that

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10-23-2012, 12:44 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Question for the panel...

Can anyone see this as an opportunity for the PA to come back and say they won't pursue the NLRB to take up this manner if you accept one of the 3 proposals from last week? I know it seems like a reach on my part to ask but, these series of events in the last 10 days have really left me dumbfounded.
Don't think the league would respond to blackmail very well

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10-23-2012, 12:44 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Wouldn't that be blackmail on the part of the PA?
Yea it would be blackmail and it could hurt the PA PR even more.

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10-23-2012, 12:45 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Can anyone see this as an opportunity for the PA to come back and say they won't pursue the NLRB to take up this manner if you accept one of the 3 proposals from last week? I know it seems like a reach on my part to ask but, these series of events in the last 10 days have really left me dumbfounded.
.... well, why would you do that when your dealing with an unethical Bully? You just drop him. Haymaker.
Get in the first shot & just keep flailing away. Dont give him a chance to get up, slither away & weasel out.

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10-23-2012, 12:53 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Knuckle under in what regard?

Based on the proposals as I know them both sides agree to 50/50 split and both agree the current contracts need to be paid, it's just how/when they are paid.

Then there's the small worries and changes by the NHL that they have said many times they will negotiate on.
the last proposal saw changes in ELC's, Arb. process, extending of the free agency process, limiting contracts.

These are all items that the players negotiated for.

In addition to an immediate slide in salary of 12% they want to limit the players ability to maximize their salary.

The 50/50 split is a fair number. I will never argue against that, but it should be gradual (2 year step down to 50/50) And the Owners should foot the entire bill for the contracts they agreed to. The players should not have to pay themselves which is what the NHL has proposed.

there's a deal to be made, but it shouldn't be so one sided.

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10-23-2012, 12:55 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Wouldn't that be blackmail on the part of the PA? I don't think they're going to do that
no less blackmail than the owners saying, Take this offer or we cancel a season.

seems pretty much the same, just not using the courts to do it.

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10-23-2012, 12:56 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
the last proposal saw changes in ELC's, Arb. process, extending of the free agency process, limiting contracts.

These are all items that the players negotiated for.

In addition to an immediate slide in salary of 12% they want to limit the players ability to maximize their salary.

The 50/50 split is a fair number. I will never argue against that, but it should be gradual (2 year step down to 50/50) And the Owners should foot the entire bill for the contracts they agreed to. The players should not have to pay themselves which is what the NHL has proposed.

there's a deal to be made, but it shouldn't be so one sided.

First they never got 100% of the contracts under the last CBA. Second the players have never proposed a step down with linkage.

Everyone with a brain here thought that was the normal progression, but nope.

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