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2012 CBA Discussion III (Lockout Talk)

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Old
11-01-2012, 12:15 PM
  #326
Fenian24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
I am at the point where I hope there is no hockey until mid-late Dec.

Nov is already gone and I am away for the first week in Dec on vacation.

If the B's make the playoffs I won't have to worry about $$$ for playoff games because the B's owe me over 3000 already.

Hopefully they learn something from this to prevent it from happening yet again...
I would like to think they will learn something as well, but as long as Bettman is in charge I can't see any negotiation going smoothly. I fully expect when this deal is worked out, whenever it ends, if Bettman is still involved there will be another lock out.
We have seen no proof in his regime that he would handle things any differently than he has in the past and is currently doing.

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Old
11-01-2012, 12:32 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
you should read your words cause you say all the right stuff.. you just dont seem to hear yourself speaking. yes the owners screwed up... and now they are trying to fix it. its on them... yes... you are right
So how are they trying to fix it? not hearing the players counters and acting like spoiled children and taking their ball and going home sure doesn't seem like a good fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
It's not working... But it's not mismanagement that's got them to not working.

The old CBA made it nearly impossible to lose great deals of money (the argument was made back in 2004, THIS CBA has worked). All we need now is a slight tinker to the system and teams can start making actual money.

You focus on who is to blame. It's not about "fault" or "fair". It's about a problem, a solution, and how to get there.

Right now, I'm sympathetic to one side more than another because I feel as though the NHL is bullying. The PA has actually shown a willingness to sacrifice. And every proposal I have put forward focuses on taking the LEAST amount possible from the PA AND on giving the PA representation in the operations of the league. Give, take, and an effort to cease the noise and pointless arguing next time 'round.
If this present CBA is working why are we here? i'm gonna say greed (which both sides are guilty of) and to a good point some kind of mismanagement. Whether of the team or the nhl in general. Yes i'm going to put blame on the owners. They go the deal they wanted 8 years ago and now they're wanting more. They should figure out things amongst themselves before they ask players for more money back. From what the rumors are ol' jj himself it the ringleader in this mess and this is the man who wanted this present CBA has profitted off it, and now wants more going back to him and his present hardliners? ya sorry, I can't go with that.

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Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
but the rolling back of salary is only one step in the process not the entire process needed to fix the system.
The biggest step in the process should be what i said above. The owners should get on board with each other figure out some serious revenue sharing since it seems theres 5-8 team owners who are calling the shots. Their needs to be a rollback of sorts and theres numbers that have been proposed, but it seems like the owners aren't very united just like the rumors of the union being all disorganized.

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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Being around Boston when the WC was going on, I don't think they can pull it off in such short notice, assuming no one is working right now.

The rink was being installed in early/mid December. Thats a little over a month away. I am not privy to the pre planning but I am sure it is large and takes month. I doubt they will be able to pull it off.
If they settle the cba and they "save" the WC.. just get some college kids to do some work. **** i would've skipped class to help out with something like that. Just get some bodies on it.

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Old
11-01-2012, 12:46 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Fenian24 View Post
I would like to think they will learn something as well, but as long as Bettman is in charge I can't see any negotiation going smoothly. I fully expect when this deal is worked out, whenever it ends, if Bettman is still involved there will be another lock out.
We have seen no proof in his regime that he would handle things any differently than he has in the past and is currently doing.
I am sorry but I disagree each lockout so far has been necessary. The first was needed but the owners caved which made the second lockout necessary. The owner got as much as they could which was barely enough to keep the league solvent. This lockout should be about getting it right. As long as the owners don't cave this time there should be no need for further lockouts. If the owners cave then you are correct and there will be another lockout. People seem to forget that the league was in terrible shape when GB became commissioner.

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Old
11-01-2012, 01:05 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Orrthebest View Post
I am sorry but I disagree each lockout so far has been necessary. The first was needed but the owners caved which made the second lockout necessary. The owner got as much as they could which was barely enough to keep the league solvent. This lockout should be about getting it right. As long as the owners don't cave this time there should be no need for further lockouts. If the owners cave then you are correct and there will be another lockout. People seem to forget that the league was in terrible shape when GB became commissioner.
I value your opinion over anyone elses here, and also over a good amount of writers. But I just see there being continued labor strife or lockouts in the future. I'm only 28 so i might not be totally accurate with history before 1984, but with the defections to the WHA and some of the free agent and trade processes it seemed archaic and out of touch. When did it start getting skewed towards the players? 2004 and that cba makes sense and needed to happen. This is personal beefs between people over percentages, not a face lift to the game like the last time. Sorry if this seems rambling and deserves to be put into the history of hockey section on here, but it seems like the balance of power (for lack of a better word) seems to have ebbs and flows. And the players think (not rightfully i might add) that they'll get screwed like many players in the past did.

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11-01-2012, 01:41 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84 View Post
I value your opinion over anyone elses here, and also over a good amount of writers. But I just see there being continued labor strife or lockouts in the future. I'm only 28 so i might not be totally accurate with history before 1984, but with the defections to the WHA and some of the free agent and trade processes it seemed archaic and out of touch. When did it start getting skewed towards the players? 2004 and that cba makes sense and needed to happen. This is personal beefs between people over percentages, not a face lift to the game like the last time. Sorry if this seems rambling and deserves to be put into the history of hockey section on here, but it seems like the balance of power (for lack of a better word) seems to have ebbs and flows. And the players think (not rightfully i might add) that they'll get screwed like many players in the past did.
Sure you have the right Orr?

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Old
11-01-2012, 02:40 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Sure you have the right Orr?
haha ooops.. wow.. that was meant for OOG.. No offense to the other Orr.

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Old
11-01-2012, 06:34 PM
  #334
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Melnyk on PrimeTime sports Fan590.com, check out the podcast, was listening while yakking on phone but could be something there?

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Old
11-01-2012, 07:16 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Melnyk on PrimeTime sports Fan590.com, check out the podcast, was listening while yakking on phone but could be something there?
Per Renaud Lavoie's twitter:

@RenLavoieRDS: Senators owner Eugene Melnyk could be fine after what he said yesterday but not sure the NHL will slap his wrist.

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Old
11-01-2012, 08:03 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84 View Post
haha ooops.. wow.. that was meant for OOG.. No offense to the other Orr.
I'll take either Or!

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Old
11-01-2012, 08:06 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Winnwell Cooperalls View Post
Per Renaud Lavoie's twitter:

@RenLavoieRDS: Senators owner Eugene Melnyk could be fine after what he said yesterday but not sure the NHL will slap his wrist.
Fine as in "OK" or fine as in a hit in the wallet?

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Old
11-01-2012, 08:20 PM
  #338
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Fine as in "OK" or fine as in a hit in the wallet?
Renaud tweets in French and English and the French version of that same tweet indicates he could be fined.

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Old
11-02-2012, 06:39 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
Dom, I think it's safe to say we can take your word on it; but can you give more then just he said something ? What did he say ?

Off topic, you going to the London game tomorrow against Belleville ?
He criticized both sides and said they are both at fault. Also said he doesn't like how either is handling it.

I'll be in Guelph tonight then heading right to Niagara and staying there for tomorrows Niagara/Guelph game.

Have draft rankings coming out tomorrow which is why I'm heading straight to Niagara instead of home after the game.

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Old
11-02-2012, 06:47 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
My question is, why are they. It's not like the NHLPA will use it to negotiate off of. They will take it look at it and then propose their last 3 once again.
My honest opinion is both sides will start to feel the pinch now.

Big revenue generating teams like the Leafs, Rangers, Habs and Canucks...this lockout isn't for them and they are not liking losing money, especially the all powerful Rogers/Bell Media.

And the players aren't going to like losing money and there's already a small group wanting an end to this right now.

Just as an example, Alex Ovechkin just got $760,000 in escrow and lost $731,000 in salary. In two weeks he loses another $731,000. How many guys are going to want to keep losing? Not that kind of cash, but still cash they'll never get back

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:09 AM
  #341
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Brooks: Thursday's conference call was rally campaign; players pushing for more face-to-face meetings with league (push for negotiations)

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:13 AM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Brooks: Thursday's conference call was rally campaign; players pushing for more face-to-face meetings with league (push for negotiations)
my understanding is thus- it will end when the owners representatives want it to end; if they have mentally checked out no WC, then forget hockey until December. If this gets kaboshed next 7 days then my best guesstimate is forget serious negotations until after Thanksgiving.

Still a chance this could start later this month or first week of December, BUT do the owners want to? or they looking for scorched earth here....we'll know shortly wont we

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:15 AM
  #343
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WC to be canceled as early as 2pm.


Edit:Added scource from main board
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Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper
Sources saying sponsors r being notified the #NHL Winter classic gm' will be cancelled. An official announcement coming as early as 2pm est


Last edited by SpokedLightning: 11-02-2012 at 11:24 AM.
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Old
11-02-2012, 11:18 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by BergyMeister View Post
WC to be canceled as early as 2pm.
bad for players- they have nothing on owners....guess this was part of the plan all along not leave anything the players can hold over them...Kayser Soze 101

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:19 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by BergyMeister View Post
WC to be canceled as early as 2pm.
sigh...


Any respect I had gained for Jacobs is gone. I feel like he is leading the owners in this and I am not happy.

From all I have read the players want to try and get the season started.

I hate this

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:28 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
sigh...


Any respect I had gained for Jacobs is gone. I feel like he is leading the owners in this and I am not happy.

From all I have read the players want to try and get the season started.

I hate this
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...tml#more-44047

Quote:
But a funny thing happened this week. Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts column went up earlier this week and kind of turned those suppositions on their ears. He named Jacobs as the likely Lex Luthor of this lockout (to the surprise of absolutely no one), and also implicated Leonsis as being complicit in heavily pushing the owners' agenda. But it turns out that it's — perhaps logically — not the owners in the markets where teams are actually making money that want the lockout to continue for the betterment of their bottom lines three or five years from now.

Friedman says an educated guess has the owners of the Anaheim Ducks, Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, Florida Panthers, New York Islanders, Phoenix Coyotes (which makes sense since you-know-who is calling the shots there), St. Louis Blues and Washington Capitals as the ones who are being the real hardliners in all this.

What do those teams have in common? With a few exceptions in various areas, no one gives a rat's ass about them, they're poorly managed to begin with, they're guilty of giving out cap-circumventing contracts, and they stink.

Let's just go down the list here of the various teams who have Bettman's back through thick and thin because they believe the league as it stands now needs to change, no matter what the ultimate cost this season.

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:35 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
sigh...


Any respect I had gained for Jacobs is gone. I feel like he is leading the owners in this and I am not happy.


From all I have read the players want to try and get the season started.

I hate this
You had respect for Jacobs? God why????

This team winning the Cup was solely because of the cap. He's the same guy he's always been. He's a business guy who couldn't care less about anything other than making money.

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Old
11-02-2012, 11:51 AM
  #348
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You had respect for Jacobs? God why????

This team winning the Cup was solely because of the cap. He's the same guy he's always been. He's a business guy who couldn't care less about anything other than making money.
There are some things I liked...Cam Neely being made president is one of them.

The B's are spending to the cap and I feel they have been better about getting the right players for the B's.

I am VERY discouraged about this lockout. It is wrong for the sport and bad for the fans.

This will get resolved someday so why not now ? This is just stupid for everyone.

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Old
11-02-2012, 12:12 PM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
sigh...


Any respect I had gained for Jacobs is gone. I feel like he is leading the owners in this and I am not happy.

From all I have read the players want to try and get the season started.

I hate this
don't forget that the owners wanted to talk last year and the players said no. If they started talking a year ago we might now have hockey and that is on the players.

both sides suck.

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Old
11-02-2012, 12:15 PM
  #350
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Meh, I don't blame Jacobs. There's little evidence that he's holding the league hostage other than the fact no one likes him.
With the Bruins at the bottom of the list of the profitability list, I'd be fighting tooth and nail, too.

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