HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Boston Bruins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012 CBA Discussion III (Lockout Talk)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-02-2012, 04:57 PM
  #376
Mione134
Registered User
 
Mione134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hogwarts-617
Country: United States
Posts: 10,686
vCash: 500
At this point...are we even getting a season? Because this situation hasn't changed and I'm starting to really worry about not playing at all.

Mione134 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:01 PM
  #377
Ladyfan
Miss you Savvy !
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: next to the bench
Country: Scotland
Posts: 25,976
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
At this point...are we even getting a season? Because this situation hasn't changed and I'm starting to really worry about not playing at all.
I don't have a good feeling. Those stupid men running this are going to ruin the season for the NHL. They should feel shame....but I am sure they don't .

__________________
"Good game, Good Game, I'm going to f***ing kill you, Good Game"
Ladyfan is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:10 PM
  #378
Shaun
beauty
 
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Italy
Posts: 21,321
vCash: 50
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.

Shaun is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:31 PM
  #379
Mione134
Registered User
 
Mione134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hogwarts-617
Country: United States
Posts: 10,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
I don't have a good feeling. Those stupid men running this are going to ruin the season for the NHL. They should feel shame....but I am sure they don't .


These people should be ashamed of themselves. Ashamed.

Mione134 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:31 PM
  #380
KnightofBoston
MVP
 
KnightofBoston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Easthampton, Ma
Country: United States
Posts: 12,586
vCash: 500
Was just about to post this cross

I still say we have a season albeit shortened

If we don't I will place the blame on the NHLPA

KnightofBoston is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:42 PM
  #381
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
 
Alberta_OReilly_Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmonton Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,032
vCash: 500
Im on mobile so have to keep this short. is the solution to keeping the players happy just to offdr them freeagency? if there complaint is that the rules have changed after they sjgn then why not offer them a do over under the rules of the new cba?

Alberta_OReilly_Fan is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 05:48 PM
  #382
Shaun
beauty
 
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Italy
Posts: 21,321
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
Was just about to post this cross

I still say we have a season albeit shortened

If we don't I will place the blame on the NHLPA
no doubt. I think they can still play a 60-65 game condensed schedule if they get it done soon.

Shaun is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 06:07 PM
  #383
Mr. Make-Believe
Moderator
Pass me another nail
 
Mr. Make-Believe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Erotic Fantasies
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,979
vCash: 500
...

Any word on what the NHL is willing to sacrifice in order to get the players to accept a reduced share in revenue?

Mr. Make-Believe is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 06:23 PM
  #384
RussellmaniaKW
Registered User
 
RussellmaniaKW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
Im on mobile so have to keep this short. is the solution to keeping the players happy just to offdr them freeagency? if there complaint is that the rules have changed after they sjgn then why not offer them a do over under the rules of the new cba?
lol you should always post from a mobile device.

RussellmaniaKW is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 06:26 PM
  #385
Fierce1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 151
vCash: 500
With Bettman just cancelling all November and the WC I'm betting he is in a great negotiating mood. Does anybody else see him coming back with his 43% original offer?? The only reason he will officially sit down with the players now is just to let them know that they are screwed.IMHO

Fierce1 is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 06:47 PM
  #386
Fire Julien
Registered User
 
Fire Julien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bergen
Country: Norway
Posts: 17,706
vCash: 1340
Season's over.

Allan Walsh ‏@walsha

Report of a "major concession" by NHL is false. Nothing new. Just trying to deflect anger from Winter Classic cancellation.

Allan Walsh ‏@walsha

NHL reiterated what it said when it walked out 10 days ago. Nothing new, except NHL using its media sponsor to deflect

Every NHL proposal presented by NHL media sponsor as something that it was not. NHL concerned by fury over Winter Classic, needs to deflect

Use common sense. NHL cancels Winter Classic and on SAME DAY makes "major concession" on CBA. NHL+media sponsor playing fans for suckers.

Fire Julien is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 06:52 PM
  #387
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 18,350
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Season's over.

Allan Walsh ‏@walsha

Report of a "major concession" by NHL is false. Nothing new. Just trying to deflect anger from Winter Classic cancellation.

Allan Walsh ‏@walsha

NHL reiterated what it said when it walked out 10 days ago. Nothing new, except NHL using its media sponsor to deflect

Every NHL proposal presented by NHL media sponsor as something that it was not. NHL concerned by fury over Winter Classic, needs to deflect

Use common sense. NHL cancels Winter Classic and on SAME DAY makes "major concession" on CBA. NHL+media sponsor playing fans for suckers.
You're quoting Allan Walsh.

Artemis is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 06:56 PM
  #388
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 104,897
vCash: 340
Walsh is scum of the earth ,, No doubt he is filling his clients heads with false info

Blackhawkswincup is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 07:00 PM
  #389
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Dom - OHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,996
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
His twitter bio should tell you enough

Quote:
@walsha
Octagon-Hockey, Sports Agent/Lawyer: Mission Statement - To protect clients rights, promote their interests and maximize their compensation. Opinions my own

Dom - OHL is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 07:11 PM
  #390
Alicat
Charge!
 
Alicat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BOSTON
Country: United States
Posts: 21,007
vCash: 500
Allan Walsh = Scott Boras

__________________
"I choose to focus on the things I CAN do and am passionate about." - Sam Berns

I am Boston Strong
6.15.11
4.15.13

Alicat is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 07:32 PM
  #391
Ratty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rive Gauche
Posts: 5,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
His twitter bio should tell you enough
Isn't the bolded part what sport agents are hired to do?

Ratty is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 08:04 PM
  #392
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Dom - OHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,996
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Isn't the bolded part what sport agents are hired to do?
Yes sir. But while the NHLPA is there to do the same thing but for the whole as opposed to the individual, they are conceding that there has to be a change in the amount (percentage wise) that the players receive.

Walsh on the other hand, will not concede to that, simply because it effects his bottom line.

There's a reason that Walsh has been in arguments with people like Darren Dreger and why he has blocked many many people on twitter (myself included). He's been caught many times spewing garbage and when he gets called out, rather then correct himself or debate it, he simply just blocks them.

So I ask you: are you going to take the word/opinion of one guy who's sole purpose is to get every penny for his clients? I hope not

Dom - OHL is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 08:21 PM
  #393
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
 
Alberta_OReilly_Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmonton Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,032
vCash: 500
On the spirit of compromise.... Reguarding length of contracts. i suggest only first five years guaranteed. after that contracts subject to buyout. no trade protction only available for lonv term deals. this does protect owners a bit more but still gives players most of what they need too.

Alberta_OReilly_Fan is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 08:37 PM
  #394
Ratty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rive Gauche
Posts: 5,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
Yes sir. But while the NHLPA is there to do the same thing but for the whole as opposed to the individual, they are conceding that there has to be a change in the amount (percentage wise) that the players receive.

Walsh on the other hand, will not concede to that, simply because it effects his bottom line.

There's a reason that Walsh has been in arguments with people like Darren Dreger and why he has blocked many many people on twitter (myself included). He's been caught many times spewing garbage and when he gets called out, rather then correct himself or debate it, he simply just blocks them.

So I ask you: are you going to take the word/opinion of one guy who's sole purpose is to get every penny for his clients? I hope not
Based upon the way you phrased it, my opinion is that, yes, indeed, an agent's sole purpose should be to get every penny for his clients. Scott Boras does it all the time.

Now, OTOH, if he's spewing garbage and refuses to own up to it, why that's unprofessional. But I still maintain that an agent's job is to get the best deal for his client, even if it makes him unpopular or, even, reprehensible. Sports management can be an ugly profession. Agencies steal clients from other agencies. Agents bolt from one firm and try to take clients with them. Its brutal and there's a lot of money involved.

Ratty is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 08:41 PM
  #395
Mr. Make-Believe
Moderator
Pass me another nail
 
Mr. Make-Believe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Erotic Fantasies
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
On the spirit of compromise.... Reguarding length of contracts. i suggest only first five years guaranteed. after that contracts subject to buyout. no trade protction only available for lonv term deals. this does protect owners a bit more but still gives players most of what they need too.
Compromise?

Mr. Make-Believe is offline  
Old
11-02-2012, 08:55 PM
  #396
Lobster57
Registered User
 
Lobster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,162
vCash: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
Compromise?
yeah, that's what i was wondering.

Lobster57 is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 05:11 AM
  #397
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
 
Alberta_OReilly_Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmonton Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,032
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
Compromise?
well... compromise in so much as the owners want a hard limit on length of contract. Im guessing that players want an option to have longer contracts? In the NFL which is always held up as the gold standard of a healthy league... there is no guarantees at all for player contracts. So my proposal would be alot better then that to the players. Five years of guarantee is way more then the NFL does.

Ultimately, if a player is 'earning' his contract then the team will just keep honoring the deal anyhow. So, in effect any player that is earning his money will continue to get it. In the meantime... if something has gone horribly wrong like Rick Diepietro, then the player will still get something. That is where the buyout kicks in. A player wont be limited to just the 5 or 6 years that the owners want now. There might be 6-10 years worth of buyout money owed too if a player signed a 12-16 year deal to begin with.

as for why i make no-trade clauses much more restrictive... they simply suck for a pro sports league. Ultimately, the only reason a pro sports league has any value is because it gives us fans something to cheer for and be entertained by. These guys dont solve world hunger or land men on the moon. So, when a team needs to make a move to try to win... and cant because of no movement clauses... that just hurts the entire thing.

I know that there are families involved... and trades can effect the entire family... but thats sort of why these guys average over 2 mill a year in compensation... because maybe they will get traded? I leave no trade clauses on the table just as a bonus to guys that will agree to contracts longer then 5 years. My reasoning is that agreeing to a deal of this length shows that the players is making an extrodinary commitment to the team. He deserves the no trade protection in return.

Guys unwilling to sign that type of long term commitment though arent really committed to the team in any special way... so why must the team be specially committed to them in return?

My compromise is based on what exists now where there are almost no rules at all reguarding these things... and then the current changes that the owners are asking for. I want to see situations in the future like yzerman and bourque where great players can continue to basically play their entire seasons for one team. If we had guys like parise and suter saying they wanted to sign career long contracts here, then i want to be able to do it. So im not crazy about the idea of limiting contracts to like 5 years BUT at the same time I dont want to see us get stuck with the next Diepietro deal or get someone like Wade Redden or Scott Gomez or Shawn Horcorff signed for 10 years either. Its bad enough to have these guys for even 4-5 years.

Players really do have MASSIVE amounts of protection under the CBA and would continue to do so even with the changes the owners are asking for. Even the most zealot of player supporters in this negotiation cant give us a list of more then a handful of players who have been 'taken advantage of' in their current contracts. I toss out the challange again... if there are players that werent able to get fair contracts under the old CBA then go ahead and name them for us here?

Players have a beef right now that they say they bargained in good faith for a deal and want it honored under the new CBA... but I ask who did they have as an alternative? Was going to the KHL really an option? Would they really have gone to the KHL if they knew that HRR was going to be lowered to 50-50?

I mean... signing with a second NHL team wasnt going to change anything at all. Every NHL team is going to operate under the 50-50 split. So in reality the players signed the very best deal available under the old CBA pitting one NHL team against another for leverage... and in the contract was legal notification that the terms were subject to this new CBA. Everyone new when this new CBA would be negotiated. It was very reasonable to forsee that the owners might ask for more favorable terms in the new CBA given the record loses they were reporting and all the teams going bankrupt or scrambling for new investors/owners.

The players are emotional now. There is alot of money numbers being tossed around. Way more then we can understand. it sounds like a filthy number when you say that the owners want to take a billion dollars from the players over the next 6-7 years.

But when you break it down to 200 million or so a season... and then divide that over 700 or so contracts its only 300k per player. low income guys will be losing very little because they have a minimum salary guaranteed. mid income guys will still be making 2-3-4 mill a year anyhow...

it sounds emotionally horrible to them that they will 'lose 500-900k' that they could have got at a 57% split but when they are still getting 2-4 million anyhow then that doesnt sound so horrible.

Which is a huge problem IMHO with these negotiations. The owners suck at PR. The union gets to toss out these numbers of 'hypothetical' loses and their supporters just suck it up without any thought. Meanwhile the NHL has a gag order going. If the NHL did hand out a realistic assessment of just how much money the players would still be paid under the new CBA proposal then I bet the vast majority of players wouldnt have any clue at all why they are losing a season over this issue at all.

All that said... I still dont mind if theres compromises to address the players concerns. I would offer all the guys that want it... UFA status. If they do want to go to the KHL then let them. I would let them continue to have their long contracts {provided that not all of it is guaranteed and provided it isnt just a flimsy attempt to get around the cap.} I would continue to give the players access to UFA at a young age because this isnt a communist system we live in. Id give the players better trainers/doctors cause health is important for everyone.

There is plenty of room for the owners to give back as they take... but they cant lose sight of the most important issue here and that is protecting the health of the league. I see alot of fans saying that the NHL shouldnt be in markets like pheonix and atlanta and other non-tradtional cities where it struggles. But these teams create jobs for the union and increase potential revenue streams for the players in the future if the game can be grown here. Going to these markets helps the players more then it helps the owners who suffer the loses.

We could sit here as fans and say it makes more sense to be in Toronto/Quebec then it does Phoenix/Florida but putting expansion teams into Toronto/Quebec makes the most sense for both the owners and the players. The best thing for the owners/players is to make the non traditional markets work... and its the best thing for the fans in those cities too.

Im in edmonton... its no skin off my nose if theres a team in phoenix... or it moves to seattle. I dont care... but the fans in phoenix do. the fans in atlanta dont have a team anymore. For now, there are still markets that are willing to struggle along losing 10-15 mill or more a year to try to make it work. They have been told a new CBA will fix their problems so hold on... but if this CBA doesnt do it like the last one didnt do it... then more and more Phoenix/Atlanta/Dallas/Nashville situations will arise and we will ultimately soon run out of new markets to move teams into.

The league clearly wants to keep Toronto/Quebec around for expansion and i cant blame them for that. Before expansion makes any sense though, the current teams have to be made healthy and thats what this fight is for. I sure dont want to lose the season, but I will suffer it if the end result is the result we all need moving forward.

Alberta_OReilly_Fan is offline  
Old
11-03-2012, 10:40 AM
  #399
DKH
Registered User
 
DKH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,644
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DKH
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
Haven't heard a thing on TSN about this at all, but thanks for sharing.

Hope your game was better then mine; 8 minutes left in the 1st period, shots on net were 2-1 for London.

As for the 2 Subban's, they did not look good at all. See if you can find out anything through your contacts about Malcom's right leg. He did something to it last night.
how does the Russian look? hope to see you when we come up in the Spring....noticed Domi 12 and Bo 22 on the recent TSN prospect ratings

DKH is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.