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So who do we lose next season??

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Old
12-26-2012, 10:14 PM
  #1
RemoAZ
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So who do we lose next season??

With it becoming more and more likely that this season will never materialize, I thought it would be interesting to look at whose contracts are up and who we want to keep. In no particular order, just a few:

Smith - Hopefully he doesn't want to break the bank on one good season. How much and how long do we go?

Morris - This would be the 3rd year for him so his contract is now up right? If so, see ya! I'd rather we brought in a physical dman if we went with another vet.

Bissonnette - Biznasty 2.done

Korpi - Is he now a UFA?

Torres - Is he up or does he have one more year? Can he still be effective while changing his game so he's not perpetually suspended?

Moss, Johnson and Sullivan all signed one year deals right? Will they every wear a Yotes uni?

LaBarbera - Everybody's favorite backup is without a contract.

Feel free to add whoever I'm missing and correct who shouldn't be on the list.

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12-26-2012, 10:46 PM
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http://www.capgeek.com/coyotes/

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12-26-2012, 11:04 PM
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Looks like we still have DMo, Moss, and Biznasty for another year according to capgeek.com. Korpi, Boedker, OEL Summers, Stone and Schlemko are RFAs next season. Sullivan, Torres, Gordon, Johnson, Chipchura and the 2 goalies are UFAs. I'd like to see how Raffi plays now that all eyes are on him.

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12-27-2012, 12:03 AM
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Obviously Smith and Gordon are crucial re-signs. I want to re-sign all of the RFAs, too.

That leaves Sullivan, Torres, Johnson, Chipchura, and LaBarbera to make decisions on. Sullivan is another year older after a cancelled season. Tough call. I'd say keep our options open. I'm concerned Torres will he too limited by strict regulations. I worry that he will be far less effective if he changes his game too much. I'm ready to look at other options, personally. I have no opinion on Johnson. I'm concerned that he's not playing anywhere this season. With his limited experience, that's pretty much enough to make me want to look elsewhere. Those three are tough calls. I could go either way.

Chipchura I love. I definitely want to re-sign him.

LaBarbera I hate. I want him gone. I'd rather have anyone else. Bring back Boucher, Montoya, or even McElhinney. Anybody but LaBarbera. Anybody. Actually, I think Chris Mason would be an excellent fit on this team. Renowned team guy who is very popular. Is a guy who can play extremely well with a tight system in front of him. He was really solid in Nashville for Trotz and in St.Louis for Hitchcock. I imagine he'd be great for Tippett in Phoenix. Nice to have a back up who can actually play in case
Smith gets hurt. Mason as a UFA would definitely be my pick to replace LaBarbera as back up. Strikes me as a good fit.


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12-27-2012, 12:42 AM
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Obviously Smith and Gordon are crucial re-signs. I want to re-sign all of the RFAs, too.

That leaves Sullivan, Torres, Johnson, Chipchura, and LaBarbera to make decisions on. Sullivan is another year older after a cancelled season. Tough call. I'd say keep our options open. I'm concerned Torres will he too limited by strict regulations. I worry that he will be far less effective if he changes his game too much. I'm ready to look at other options, personally. I have no opinion on Johnson. I'm concerned that he's not playing anywhere this season. With his limited experience, that's pretty much enough to make me want to look elsewhere. Those three are tough calls. I could go either way.

Chipchura I love. I definitely want to re-sign him.

LaBarbera I hate. I want him gone. I'd rather have anyone else. Bring back Boucher, Montoya, or even McElhinney. Anybody but LaBarbera. Anybody. Actually, I think Chris Mason would be an excellent fit on this team. Renowned team guy who is very popular. Is a guy who can play extremely well with a tight system in front of him. He was really solid in Nashville for Trotz and in St.Louis for Hitchcock. I imagine he'd be great for Tippett in Phoenix. Nice to have a back up who can actually play in case
Smith gets hurt. Mason as a UFA would definitely be my pick to replace LaBarbera as back up. Strikes me as a good fit.
With the exception of Torres, I agree with you on everything.

Torres can score 10-15 goals on the 4th line, and his physical play is great, along with him protecting our skill players about 100x better than Biz*****2.0.

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12-27-2012, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by PhXcoyotes View Post
With the exception of Torres, I agree with you on everything.

Torres can score 10-15 goals on the 4th line, and his physical play is great, along with him protecting our skill players about 100x better than Biz*****2.0.
While I agree with you that Torres is a great 4th line player, there has to be some concern about how physical he will play due to him being on thin ice (pardon the pun), which unfortunately is how he is so effective

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12-27-2012, 09:27 AM
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Well being stuck with Biz blows. Maybe we can dump him in a deal although Maloney seems to like him for some unknown reason. I didn't realize we paid Moss so much. Hopefully the year off gets him healthy enough to actually play a whole season. Morris a year older scares me. His skills are already declining. I doubt anyone touches Torres for anything more than a minimum deal. Gordon and Smith are definitely the keys. Chip could replace Gordon if he just doesn't want to play here but I hope we can bring him back. He solidifies that bottom line. We really need to get Smith locked up to have time to see if our young goalies develop. I think he comes back unless someone blows him away with Briz type of cash.

Thanks for the link. We have a couple contracts for one more season that I'd rather not have but at least we don't have any horrible ones. We'll definitely have a lot of flexibility.

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12-27-2012, 10:26 AM
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I don't see Gordon wanting to leave as he really seems to have found a place he fits. Not to mention his folks have a place on the west side so he may want to stay close. As a side note Brooks Laich's parents also spend the winter on the west side of Phoenix. He would make a great addition to a Tipp team.

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12-27-2012, 10:57 AM
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Obviously Smith and Gordon are crucial re-signs. I want to re-sign all of the RFAs, too.
I think those two should be relatively easy to re-sign. I can't imagine Smith getting a big pay day until he's proven a little more. And I can't imagine another team offering him a big pay day when he's really only proven himself one season in one system. Gordon is really pivotal, as he's our only righty currently and he's an elite PK and late game defensive zone FO specialist. With the way this team plays, having a guy like that is pretty essential.

My biggest concern is OEL. How much will he ask for? The sample size is small, but the talent is pretty undeniable. Would it be crazy for Detroit to offer him $6.2M for three years, and leave us with their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks? Will he bargain hard, especially in light of what Karlsson got in Ottawa? I hope he gets the kind of 2nd deal that Yandle got and jump up from there, but it's likely to be more costly.

The rest of our RFAs should be fairly straight forward re-signs. Korpikoski should get a bump and so will Boedker. Stone, Summers, Schlemko and Rundblad will likely remain inexpensive as well.

The one thing this lockout has done is limit the players who carried us to the WCF ability to repeat their team performance and earn a corresponding pay raise. With a small sample size, they'll be negotiating from a weak bargaining position. Additionally, although there will inevitably be bitter feelings toward the owners, the Yotes don't have an owner, so there's no one to be bitter towards. That might be beneficial, particularly when free agency rolls around and some butt hurt players want to find a new market to play in.

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12-27-2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamieh View Post
I don't see Gordon wanting to leave as he really seems to have found a place he fits. Not to mention his folks have a place on the west side so he may want to stay close. As a side note Brooks Laich's parents also spend the winter on the west side of Phoenix. He would make a great addition to a Tipp team.
Laich's contract term is a little too long and a little too costly for my liking. But I agree that he's make a good fit on a Tippett club.

I wonder about bringing in someone like Carolina tried to with Alex Semin. One year, $7M contract. Pile the Langkow and Whitney money together into one player. Then sign Langkow or Lombardi or Scott Gomez or whoever to play the 3rd line center spot for cheap until the trade deadline. If you're still in it, you can upgrade that center spot. If you're not, you can trade the big money, one-year contract player for a pick or prospect.

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12-27-2012, 11:14 AM
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If Ribeiro never actually plays a game for WSH before UFA, I could see him being interested in PHX. He played his best hockey for DT in the Pac Div. I'd definitely welcome him here.

There was a little bad blood for a minute with Brenden Morrow and Dallas, as well. I'm not sure if the hatchet was buried or not, but you'd have to think PHX is at least an option for him if he's looking to move on from DAL. They are similar cities, and IIRC he was a huge DT fan.

Those two on a line with Lauri Korpikoski would look pretty darn good, I'd think.

Doan-Vermette-Boedker
Sullivan*-Hanzal-Vrbata
Morrow-Ribeiro-Korpikoski
Chipchura-Gordon-Moss
Bissonnette

OEL-Michalek
Yandle-Morris
Klesla-Stone
Summers

Smith
Mason

...doubt we've got the budget room for something like that, though.

Especially after significant raises to guys like Smith and OEL.

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12-27-2012, 06:50 PM
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I think the general consensus has been that there isn't a bottle neck at defense this season that would force a move. But by the start of 2013-14, I would say something has to give.

There will be seven waiver-eligible D-men on one-way contracts:

Yandle
Morris
Z
OEL (RFA contract)
Klesla
Schlemko (RFA contract)
Summers (RFA contract)

In addition, I would say that by that time, any of these guys could step in and competently cover the 6/7 role while gaining NHL reps:

Stone
Rundblad
Gormley

That's 10 NHL level D-men (9 of which already have some NHL experience). That doesn't even consider guys like Goncharov, Brodeur or Murphy.

Who thinks all 10 will still be Yotes at training camp 2013?

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12-27-2012, 06:56 PM
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^ its really a damn shame that guys like Schlemko and Summers didn't get the opportunity to show the league's pro scouts exactly why they should have decent trade value this season. Sucks because we may end up deciding its better to risk losing a pretty good asset for fairly low value simply due to lack of exposure.

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12-27-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
I think those two should be relatively easy to re-sign. I can't imagine Smith getting a big pay day until he's proven a little more. And I can't imagine another team offering him a big pay day when he's really only proven himself one season in one system. Gordon is really pivotal, as he's our only righty currently and he's an elite PK and late game defensive zone FO specialist. With the way this team plays, having a guy like that is pretty essential.

My biggest concern is OEL. How much will he ask for? The sample size is small, but the talent is pretty undeniable. Would it be crazy for Detroit to offer him $6.2M for three years, and leave us with their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks? Will he bargain hard, especially in light of what Karlsson got in Ottawa? I hope he gets the kind of 2nd deal that Yandle got and jump up from there, but it's likely to be more costly.

The rest of our RFAs should be fairly straight forward re-signs. Korpikoski should get a bump and so will Boedker. Stone, Summers, Schlemko and Rundblad will likely remain inexpensive as well.

The one thing this lockout has done is limit the players who carried us to the WCF ability to repeat their team performance and earn a corresponding pay raise. With a small sample size, they'll be negotiating from a weak bargaining position. Additionally, although there will inevitably be bitter feelings toward the owners, the Yotes don't have an owner, so there's no one to be bitter towards. That might be beneficial, particularly when free agency rolls around and some butt hurt players want to find a new market to play in.
Must lock up OEL as soon as possible. My biggest fear is that when a deal gets done, some concessions are made that actually make the limit on contracts greater than 5 years. I think we can match any 3, 4, or 5 year contract for OEL, but when it creeps into 6 or 7 years, that is still going to be a good amount of money that would be justified for a player of OEL's caliber, just maybe not justified for Phoenix, as a market.

Given, we would get a lot of picks in return by signing a RFA, but we would have to hit gold with those draft picks, and they may be provided by a team that winds up being late in the draft, or we could screw up the pick after 3-4 years has passed. Give me the asset who is the real deal for the present and future...

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12-27-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
I think the general consensus has been that there isn't a bottle neck at defense this season that would force a move. But by the start of 2013-14, I would say something has to give.

There will be seven waiver-eligible D-men on one-way contracts:

Yandle
Morris
Z
OEL (RFA contract)
Klesla
Schlemko (RFA contract)
Summers (RFA contract)

In addition, I would say that by that time, any of these guys could step in and competently cover the 6/7 role while gaining NHL reps:

Stone
Rundblad
Gormley

That's 10 NHL level D-men (9 of which already have some NHL experience). That doesn't even consider guys like Goncharov, Brodeur or Murphy.

Who thinks all 10 will still be Yotes at training camp 2013?
Um, could be that we do have all 10, and make decisions based on progression through the year. I know I've been an advocate of trading Yandle, but without a season, the slate is kind of wiped clean, so to speak. I think that you could make a case that OEL and Z are probably the most untouchable of the bunch, followed by players who you trade only if the return is great (Yandle, Klesla, maybe one of our recent 1st rounders). The rest could be dealt, and likely will based on play through AHL and NHL. I could see us getting rid of 1, likely Schlemko, Summers, or Klesla.

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12-27-2012, 09:44 PM
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Um, could be that we do have all 10, and make decisions based on progression through the year. I know I've been an advocate of trading Yandle, but without a season, the slate is kind of wiped clean, so to speak. I think that you could make a case that OEL and Z are probably the most untouchable of the bunch, followed by players who you trade only if the return is great (Yandle, Klesla, maybe one of our recent 1st rounders). The rest could be dealt, and likely will based on play through AHL and NHL. I could see us getting rid of 1, likely Schlemko, Summers, or Klesla.
I don't think Klesla is going anywhere. He's too valuable defensively and, with Z, will provide great defensive cover for our young guys when they win jobs or are called up. He's perfect for Tip's system and he's on a VERY affordable contract, which makes GMDM happy.

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12-28-2012, 12:21 AM
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I don't think Klesla is going anywhere. He's too valuable defensively and, with Z, will provide great defensive cover for our young guys when they win jobs or are called up. He's perfect for Tip's system and he's on a VERY affordable contract, which makes GMDM happy.
I can't disagree with that - if Stone makes a consistent jump, we do have Klesla's replacement right there.

If we line up with Z/OEL, Morris/Yandle, then that leaves Klesla, someone who should see top 4 minutes, in a situation where we could go with the cheaper, but not 100% better option in Stone. I think a lot of it depends on the health of the defense throughout, and Klesla has been injury prone. But he had a great playoffs last year, and the only way he would get moved is as a piece added to get offensive talent while Stone (and hopefully others) step up in the rotation to provide similar minutes without a huge difference in play...

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12-28-2012, 02:41 AM
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UFAs: Keep Smith, Torres, Gordon, Chipchura.

RFAs: Keep Korpikoski, Ekman-Larsson, Stone, Summers. I'm whatever on Boedker and Schlemko. I'd rather us find upgrades on both of those.

Doan - Vermette - Derek Roy
Vrbata - Hanzal - Ryane Clowe
Eric Nystrom/Raffi Torres - Gordon - Korpikoski
Moss - Chipchura - B.J. Crombeen
Bissonnette

First Call-Ups: C.Brown, Miele, Werek, Hextall

Yandle - Morris
Ekman-Larsson - Michalek
Klesla - Stone
Andrew Alberts

First Call-Up: Rundblad, Gormley, Louis


Smith
Prospect

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12-28-2012, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PhXcoyotes View Post
With the exception of Torres, I agree with you on everything.

Torres can score 10-15 goals on the 4th line, and his physical play is great, along with him protecting our skill players about 100x better than Biz*****2.0.
Torres played on the 4th line in the beginning to middle of the year and he produced very little. Once, he was moved up to Langkow's line he started producing. He should be on the 3rd line, not the 4th.

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12-28-2012, 08:05 AM
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I don't think Klesla is going anywhere. He's too valuable defensively and, with Z, will provide great defensive cover for our young guys when they win jobs or are called up. He's perfect for Tip's system and he's on a VERY affordable contract, which makes GMDM happy.
The bolded is a misnomer. In the last four seasons, Klesla has played 56% of the games. In the 2 seasons since he signed his most recent four year contract (which Columbus traded away in year 1 for two pending FAs that they didn't re-sign) he's played 61 and 65 games. It's been 5 years since Rusty played a full NHL season, and the likelihood of him doing it again is low, even with him playing limited minutes on our roster. At $47,000/game actually played, Rusty is the equivalent of a $3.8M/year defenseman. That's not a "VERY affordable" contract. It just looks like it on paper. But in the end you're paying a guy to not play a quarter of the season or more every year. If recent history is any indication, Rusty can statistically be projected to play between 75 and 100 of the 130 games he's actually contracted to play (assuming a 48 game 12/13 season). That's not very affordable for ~ $5M that he's still owed.

If we're talking affordability, David Schlemko wins hands down. He didn't play enough to warrant a major pay bump, but when he did play, he's been extremely effective for league minimum wages and not a single complaint. Both Schlemko and Klesla might be very attractive trade targets if a new CBA doesn't have amnesty buyouts, because they are affordable, effective guys that can play 17 to 19 minutes on your D corps.

I understand the thinking that the loss of Whitney's production can be covered by the gain of Z and the increase in Boedker's production. I just personally don't see it. We're already a pretty stingy defense (7th in GA). Our offense has gotten considerably weaker and we have 2 too many defensemen. Seems like a perfect scenario to trade from a position of strength.

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12-28-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post

My biggest concern is OEL. How much will he ask for? The sample size is small, but the talent is pretty undeniable. Would it be crazy for Detroit to offer him $6.2M for three years, and leave us with their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks? Will he bargain hard, especially in light of what Karlsson got in Ottawa? I hope he gets the kind of 2nd deal that Yandle got and jump up from there, but it's likely to be more costly.

.
A huge positive for small-mid market teams, is that we'll have 5-7 yr term limits and yearly variance. No more huge, front loaded signing bonuses that small-mid market teams can't match.

Why bother putting out an offer sheet, that will be matched? It would only lead to driving up rfa salaries and making enemies among other gms.

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12-28-2012, 03:01 PM
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The bolded is a misnomer. In the last four seasons, Klesla has played 56% of the games. In the 2 seasons since he signed his most recent four year contract (which Columbus traded away in year 1 for two pending FAs that they didn't re-sign) he's played 61 and 65 games. It's been 5 years since Rusty played a full NHL season, and the likelihood of him doing it again is low, even with him playing limited minutes on our roster. At $47,000/game actually played, Rusty is the equivalent of a $3.8M/year defenseman. That's not a "VERY affordable" contract. It just looks like it on paper. But in the end you're paying a guy to not play a quarter of the season or more every year. If recent history is any indication, Rusty can statistically be projected to play between 75 and 100 of the 130 games he's actually contracted to play (assuming a 48 game 12/13 season). That's not very affordable for ~ $5M that he's still owed.
Doesn't insurance cover most of the money?
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
If we're talking affordability, David Schlemko wins hands down. He didn't play enough to warrant a major pay bump, but when he did play, he's been extremely effective for league minimum wages and not a single complaint. Both Schlemko and Klesla might be very attractive trade targets if a new CBA doesn't have amnesty buyouts, because they are affordable, effective guys that can play 17 to 19 minutes on your D corps.

I understand the thinking that the loss of Whitney's production can be covered by the gain of Z and the increase in Boedker's production. I just personally don't see it. We're already a pretty stingy defense (7th in GA). Our offense has gotten considerably weaker and we have 2 too many defensemen. Seems like a perfect scenario to trade from a position of strength.
Schlemko has more value, ATM, to the Coyotes than on the trade market.
I also have more faith in Sullivan and Moss than most in that those 2 will offset the loss of Whitney and Langkow. How quick GMDM signed Moss makes me think that the Coyotes targeted him and expect him to rebound and would even guess they expect him to center Korpikoski's line. A Korpikoski - Connolly - Moss line intrigues me...

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12-28-2012, 03:14 PM
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No way next season it lost.

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12-28-2012, 04:36 PM
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Doesn't insurance cover most of the money?
It's just a hunch, but I think Klesla's contract might have an insurance clause in it. He missed significant time in both of the seasons prior to signing this contract. The total value ($11.9M) and risk potential were high enough. Lombardi's contract is known to have one and it's total was less ($10.5M) and risk potential was lower. Columbus traded him for nothing in year one. He got injured in January and was cleared for the trade deadline and they moved him for two guys that they didn't try to re-sign. Maloney needed a dollar-for-dollar deal, Jovo was injured and about to come off the books, and Columbus took him up on it. Why were they so eager to get rid of Rusty? Couldn't they get any sort of long term asset out of a former 4th overall pick that they just re-signed to a four year deal? A draft pick? A prospect? My guess is that no one would give anything up because Rusty's value was hampered by a series of injuries and an insurance clause.

I think in general, insurance usually only kicks in when they're placed on LTIR.

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