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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:08 PM
  #276
Man Bear Pig
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Luongo's sv% in October: .869%

The next months are: .924, .928, .932...

Notice a pattern? If you think Luongo is an average goalie, think again. Our team in general has a slow start because we use the first few regular season games as a preseason.
You could do the same with other goalies. Reimer was pretty damn good prior to his injury. I know for a fact that Luongo's a good goalie but when you start breaking it down on a month to month basis, goalies get hot and cold, it could be said about a lot of goalies. The end of the season average should mean something.

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10-24-2012, 04:08 PM
  #277
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table scraps? this reeks of homerism. Kadri and Frattin are not table scraps. That's ridiculous. Gardiner is a guy who was pro-rated in the second half to put up 50 points. He's not gonna get traded nor should he. Luongo put up a SV% last season that was only a few points above the league average and tied for 12th with a few other guys. Does that scream star to you? Seems like middle of the pack for starters, which it actually is.
Gardiner isn't being offered though. In fact, proposals from Canucks fans are being shouted down.

Frattin is better then "table scraps" but he's still in no conceivable way worth Luongo as a centerpiece in the return.

And yes, I can embarrass every Leaf by picking one or two stats. Two Vezina nominations, a gold medal at the olympics and on more then one occasion has been the biggest reason for our team having a winning season or any post season success when our scorers can't score.

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10-24-2012, 04:12 PM
  #278
Man Bear Pig
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Gardiner isn't being offered though. In fact, proposals from Canucks fans are being shouted down.

Frattin is better then "table scraps" but he's still in no conceivable way worth Luongo as a centerpiece in the return.

And yes, I can embarrass every Leaf by picking one or two stats. Two Vezina nominations, a gold medal at the olympics and on more then one occasion has been the biggest reason for our team having a winning season or any post season success when our scorers can't score.
Frattin wouldn't be the centerpiece, he'd be one player included. And no that doesn't embarrass Leafs fans, we know about the accolades, it still doesn't mean a 33 year old goalie will continue to play on that level.

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10-24-2012, 04:12 PM
  #279
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Luongo put up a SV% last season that was only a few points above the league average and tied for 12th with a few other guys. Does that scream star to you? Seems like middle of the pack for starters, which it actually is.
Lu's save percentage wasn't spectacular last season until you realize the Canucks gave up the third most quality scoring chances in the league. It's also pretty significant that he hasn't dipped below .913 in his career and has one of the best career save percentages of all time. Until recently, he played on bad teams for most of his career too. Consistency is a pretty big deal for goalies, don't ya think?

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10-24-2012, 04:20 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
table scraps? this reeks of homerism. Kadri and Frattin are not table scraps. That's ridiculous. Gardiner is a guy who was pro-rated in the second half to put up 50 points. He's not gonna get traded nor should he. Luongo put up a SV% last season that was only a few points above the league average and tied for 12th with a few other guys. Does that scream star to you? Seems like middle of the pack for starters, which it actually is.


Oh he's most definitely a "star". How people view him comes down to his entire body of work, not just one season. He is often mentioned as a star, and sometimes a franchise goalie.

Basically, the label argument will get you nowhere because people can point to sources where he is referred to with that moniker.


Also, I find it interesting you are using stats while dismissing them when it comes to Bozak's defensive numbers. Odd.

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10-24-2012, 04:23 PM
  #281
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Frattin wouldn't be the centerpiece, he'd be one player included. And no that doesn't embarrass Leafs fans, we know about the accolades, it still doesn't mean a 33 year old goalie will continue to play on that level.
My apologies, the embarrassing part would be focusing on a single stat, say last season, and focusing on that to value a player.

From our side though, the project development of prospects or players doesn't guarantee anything to us either. In any trade, be it for a star player or even just a late pick for a warm body, you can be burned. This idea that a player will stop being effective, in the immediate future, right away or even 10 years from now, only seems to come up when a player Leafs fans covet is actually available.

If this was Toews, or Giroux, or a younger star in todays league, I don't think anyone would stop and say "oh, gee, what if he's terrible here, better safe then sorry". Even older players, say Thornton, or Hossa, or Gaborik, wouldn't feel this kind of heat from your fan base on these boards though, it just seems to be that because there is a distinct possibility (although rather remote in this Canuck fans opinion) that Luongo could end up on the Leafs, there is a sense of entitlement and that you shouldn't have to pay anything close to market value (ie Bozak+Frattin). Offers have come up from Komisarek+4th, but for all the crap we take for not being realistic, a lot of Leafs fans seem to expect star players for nothing.

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10-24-2012, 04:23 PM
  #282
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Also, referring to the report that now Ashton is off the table and Burke is reluctant to give up Frattin...



Burke will never learn it seems. He devalues the goaltending position and I'm not surprised a deal wasn't concluded between the two teams before the lock out.

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10-24-2012, 04:24 PM
  #283
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Lu's save percentage wasn't spectacular last season until you realize the Canucks gave up the third most quality scoring chances in the league. It's also pretty significant that he hasn't dipped below .913 in his career and has one of the best career save percentages of all time. Until recently, he played on bad teams for most of his career too. Consistency is a pretty big deal for goalies, don't ya think?
Why is Luongo being run out of town with such stellar numbers? Trying to convince others of his value doesn't cut it when you know if he were that good Vancouver would just keep him.

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10-24-2012, 04:27 PM
  #284
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Why is Luongo being run out of town with such stellar numbers? Trying to convince others of his value doesn't cut it when you know if he were that good Vancouver would just keep him.
Haven't heard that one before...It's not like we have a player who's younger, cheaper, and put up even better numbers or anything.

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:28 PM
  #285
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Why is Luongo being run out of town with such stellar numbers? Trying to convince others of his value doesn't cut it when you know if he were that good Vancouver would just keep him.
Again, who says we are running him out of town? All of these boards are speculative on our team having two starting calibre goaltenders. That's it. Short of the occasional idiot within our ranks, no one is wanting to run the guy out of town.

We have two very high quality players at a coveted position for our franchise for YEARS. We don't want to give either one up, but we recognize we can improve our team, perhaps drastically, by moving one player we wouldn't likely use to full potential. Either one. Or neither. I'm happy with both.

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:30 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Haven't heard that one before...It's not like we have a player who's younger, cheaper, and put up even better numbers or anything.
All the more reason Vancouver fans should be more realistic with what they should expect in any return for Luongo

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10-24-2012, 04:30 PM
  #287
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Why is Luongo being run out of town with such stellar numbers? Trying to convince others of his value doesn't cut it when you know if he were that good Vancouver would just keep him.
Lu asked to be dealt and the young guy playing behind him happens to have a .928 career save percentage. It's not hard to figure out if you try.

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10-24-2012, 04:32 PM
  #288
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Why is Luongo being run out of town with such stellar numbers? Trying to convince others of his value doesn't cut it when you know if he were that good Vancouver would just keep him.

Who's running him out? Lu himself wanted to leave...


Schneider went head to head with Luongo this past season. He's also younger. It makes sense to go with that option long-term.


If you have a goalie that's shown to be as strong (short sample), or perhaps better moving forward, why wouldn't you go with that option?

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:33 PM
  #289
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Why is Luongo being run out of town with such stellar numbers? Trying to convince others of his value doesn't cut it when you know if he were that good Vancouver would just keep him.
Same reason as MacArthur, letting the young kids play. It's really not that complicated. Those comments should be automatically deleted from the discussion.

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10-24-2012, 04:33 PM
  #290
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All the more reason Vancouver fans should be more realistic with what they should expect in any return for Luongo
Why aren't we being realistic? We have both signed long-term, if the trade won't make us a better team, we have no incentive to do it.

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:59 PM
  #291
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I think both Vancouver fans and the fans of Toronto (if he goes there) will be underwhelmed with the deal based on the polarized opinions here.
It's so unfortunate that the biggest homers are the most vocal because there are times (maybe after their bedtimes ) that some interesting discussions begin to happen. It seems a lot more polarized than it really is because I truly believe that there are people that are coming around from both teams (but maybe I'm just too optimistic in that regard)

Pretty much a given that both fanbases (including myself obviously) will be disappointed when the deal goes down, it's gonna be a **** show on here!

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10-24-2012, 05:07 PM
  #292
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Ok, I'm a little lost. It's been awhile since I've seen what Canucks fans are willing to take for Luongo. I know for sure Gardiner is off the table, and I'm praying Burke isn't going to suffer a mental breakdown like before and offer up the 2013 first round pick. What's left?

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10-24-2012, 05:19 PM
  #293
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Ok, I'm a little lost. It's been awhile since I've seen what Canucks fans are willing to take for Luongo. I know for sure Gardiner is off the table, and I'm praying Burke isn't going to suffer a mental breakdown like before and offer up the 2013 first round pick. What's left?
Nothing. If Burke isn't willing to give up a valuable asset then I don't see any reason why Gillis would send Luongo to Toronto.

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10-24-2012, 05:22 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Ok, I'm a little lost. It's been awhile since I've seen what Canucks fans are willing to take for Luongo. I know for sure Gardiner is off the table, and I'm praying Burke isn't going to suffer a mental breakdown like before and offer up the 2013 first round pick. What's left?
Nothing... There is no trade to be made.

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Old
10-24-2012, 05:24 PM
  #295
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Nothing. If Burke isn't willing to give up a valuable asset then I don't see any reason why Gillis would send Luongo to Toronto.
Lupul++. That's my answer. Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly, Grabovski and Toronto's first are all off limit apparently, so....Not much else.

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10-24-2012, 05:33 PM
  #296
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Nothing. If Burke isn't willing to give up a valuable asset then I don't see any reason why Gillis would send Luongo to Toronto.
Guess that's only fair since Gilles isn't willing to give up a valuable asset either. After all, I doubt Luongo is as valuable to Vancouver right now.

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10-24-2012, 05:37 PM
  #297
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Why is Luongo being run out of town with such stellar numbers? Trying to convince others of his value doesn't cut it when you know if he were that good Vancouver would just keep him.
Of course I am being sarcastic with this comment. The point is that what many Vancouver fans hope to get for Luongo would probably be obtained by trading Schnieder and keeping the former captain

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10-24-2012, 05:46 PM
  #298
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Of course I am being sarcastic with this comment. The point is that what many Vancouver fans hope to get for Luongo would probably be obtained by trading Schnieder and keeping the former captain
LOL! I guarantee that if we started a Cory Schneider trade thread we'd be innundated with posters saying they wouldn't give any assets for an 'unproven' goalie. Apparently the Canucks won back to back President trophies with an over the hill goalie that has no value and a young unproven goalie.

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10-24-2012, 05:52 PM
  #299
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Guess that's only fair since Gilles isn't willing to give up a valuable asset either. After all, I doubt Luongo is as valuable to Vancouver right now.
Our backup played 30 games last year, if those games were played by Reimer we wouldn't have made the playoffs either.

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10-24-2012, 05:54 PM
  #300
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This isn't gonna end well for both Vancouver and whoever gets Luongo. Pretty much, both sides will not be happy with the return, maybe it that one side gave up too much, or the other feels it didn't get enough. I have a feeling it'll end up like the Hodgson trade. Not enough value coming back.

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