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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-24-2012, 10:43 PM
  #351
New Liskeard
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You still haven't explained why. If we can improve our skater group enough to merit moving him, we would. Every GM looks to ice the best possible team, and instead of having two goalies playing at an elite level it might be better resource allocation to have one elite goalie + elite player's return on the ice/in our future.
Of course that would be nice. But you seem to be glossing over the fact that Lou doesnt seem as excited playing 1/2 with Schenider, and to prove that point, there would be no talk of Lou being traded if he were happy in that situation. Its not about fleecing the Cannucks in a trade, its about solving a situaton where your current goalie and previous captain is not content to be in. You seem to gloss over that fact often.

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10-24-2012, 10:49 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No, but other teams watching their considerably worse goaltending situation as the season goes on might. Which also allows for the possibilities of new teams becoming involved if injuries occur or new starters like Lindback/Holtby/Bobrovsky falter.
Ok I hope that works out for you guys.

I'll cross my fingers and hope the same situation happens to Kesler/Sedins - so that ya'll will take Tim Connolly off the leafs hands.

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10-24-2012, 10:50 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Of course that would be nice. But you seem to be glossing over the fact that Lou doesnt seem as excited playing 1/2 with Schenider, and to prove that point, there would be no talk of Lou being traded if he were happy in that situation. Its not about fleecing the Cannucks in a trade, its about solving a situaton where your current goalie and previous captain is not content to be in. You seem to gloss over that fact often.
Gillis has said he's fine to start the season. Luongo has said he's fine to start the season. Unless a team offers enough to motivate us to move Luongo, or Luongo openly demands to be traded, or we're forced by the cap, there's no reason not to wait and keep both while waiting to see if the market picks up.

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10-24-2012, 10:59 PM
  #354
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Good please keep Lou for his entire contract most of the entire fan base of every hockey market would be happy if this drama just finally ended.

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10-24-2012, 11:27 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No, but other teams watching their considerably worse goaltending situation as the season goes on might. Which also allows for the possibilities of new teams becoming involved if injuries occur or new starters like Lindback/Holtby/Bobrovsky falter.
Luongo won't waive for Columbus and Washington and Tampa won't give up anything important for him regardless if Holtby and lindback stink out the joint or get injured.

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10-24-2012, 11:30 PM
  #356
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Luongo won't waive for Columbus and Washington and Tampa won't give up anything important for him regardless of Holtby and lindback stink out the joint or get injured.
And how is it you have such intimate connections with Luongo, the Capitals, and the Lightning?

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10-24-2012, 11:34 PM
  #357
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Luongo won't waive for Columbus and Washington and Tampa won't give up anything important for him regardless if Holtby and lindback stink out the joint or get injured.
Then he won't be moping about sitting on the bench in Van, making 6+ mil per, either.

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10-25-2012, 12:10 AM
  #358
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And how is it you have such intimate connections with Luongo, the Capitals, and the Lightning?
And you do?

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:12 AM
  #359
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Considering the strides that Kassian has made I think most Canuck fans have come around to that deal.
Well, not saying Kassian isn't any good, but people will always never be satisfied in trades, because of ________ is better than ________ in potential and _________ is all we could get in return for _________ which we should have got _________ or better. Look at all the other Canadian franchises. I remember clearly the Vancouver board making a 1000 post thread in a few days about how horrible of a trade it was to get Kassian and get rid of Hodgson when he was going to make their center depth even more solid.

Everyone over-values everyone, especially on HFBoards. IMO, Luongo is a good goalie and any team he goes on would make them instant playoff contenders, if not higher, but of course people will always think they should get more for Luongo. It's a lose/lose for both sides (unless somehow, HFBoards and the real world collide with each other and everything becomes fair and square).

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10-25-2012, 12:17 AM
  #360
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And you do?
He's not the one making those claims.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:20 AM
  #361
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And you do?
I never said they would, I said if the offers we are receiving now do not improve us, and we are not forced to move Luongo because of the cap, we may as well wait until the market improves because of various possibilities that might happen.

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10-25-2012, 12:46 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I never said they would, I said if the offers we are receiving now do not improve us, and we are not forced to move Luongo because of the cap, we may as well wait until the market improves because of various possibilities that might happen.
Please keep Luongo. If this is what it takes to get him, I sincerely don't want him. Every scenario I see except for one drastically destroys are team in the future and really isn't all that productive.

If there is any conversation about Gardiner, Finn and Rielly, it will be a very quick no. I'm just hoping he'd be that stubborn with the first round pick.

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Old
10-25-2012, 01:04 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I never said they would, I said if the offers we are receiving now do not improve us, and we are not forced to move Luongo because of the cap, we may as well wait until the market improves because of various possibilities that might happen.
And how long do you think that could take? Luongo isn't getting any younger, you'd think moving him would be a priority.

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10-25-2012, 01:10 AM
  #364
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You should refer to my post earlier. I'll say it again; I still believe Luongo is worth a impact roster player along with some salary dump and perhaps a 2nd round pick. But I don't think any GM would trade their top prospect(s) and 1st round picks for Luongo.
Who is this "impact player" that you speak of because i havent seen anyone offering one. That's the reason we are going for futures because it wouldn't make sense for a team to get a goalie in their prime while hurting their current team. If you can greatly improve your team without losing any blue chip prospects or key roster players then it should be a good deal. I am not asking for Gardiner or Rielly but something around Bozak, Finn and a 1st (top 10 protected) is fair imo. It may seem like a lot but it's hardly trading your top prospect and witht the protection on the 1st it doesnt allow for the chance of forfeiting a high draft pick. Bozak fills a hold quite nicely in our lineup and we can improve our horrid prospect pool. I would completely understand an unwillingness to trade Finn seeing as though he is recently drafted but I truely believe the value lies arjound there. If there is only low impact players and cap dumps offered I would rather us keep Luongo because although the situation would not be ideal, we will be a better team with Luongo then with "scraps" and possible useless cap space.

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10-25-2012, 01:18 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
Well, not saying Kassian isn't any good, but people will always never be satisfied in trades, because of ________ is better than ________ in potential and _________ is all we could get in return for _________ which we should have got _________ or better. Look at all the other Canadian franchises. I remember clearly the Vancouver board making a 1000 post thread in a few days about how horrible of a trade it was to get Kassian and get rid of Hodgson when he was going to make their center depth even more solid.

Everyone over-values everyone, especially on HFBoards. IMO, Luongo is a good goalie and any team he goes on would make them instant playoff contenders, if not higher, but of course people will always think they should get more for Luongo. It's a lose/lose for both sides (unless somehow, HFBoards and the real world collide with each other and everything becomes fair and square).
There is so much truth here. Although initially many people will believe they lost, some will convince themselves that they won by pulling a 180 and devaluing their old player. Example- Hodgson (ask many fans what they think of him now and compare it to before and it will be very different and i am very guilty of these actions as well).It's very improbable that fans watch other players as much as their own so they miss out on the little "in game" qualitites that are not shown on the stat sheet and increase their value(i am reluctant to say intangibles seeing as this word is thrown around so much).
It's just the nature of being a hockey fan i guess.

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Old
10-25-2012, 02:35 AM
  #366
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The good news, is that if there was a deal to be made with Toronto, Burke has said countless times. he doesnt believe is fleecing another GM. Make a deal that helps out both teams.
That is true about him saying that in the past. It's something I respect about him and I'm sure others would feel the same way. However that doesn't mean Burke is willing to give Gillis exactly what he wants or close to it. Finally the trade would have to make sense for Burke and the Maple Leafs, not just Gillis and the Canucks.


Last edited by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER: 10-25-2012 at 03:02 AM.
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Old
10-25-2012, 04:49 AM
  #367
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I don't know why Burke would be reluctant to trade Ashton unless him and the management see something I don't. Burke may devalue goaltending but maybe he still thinks Reimer is the man. He was pretty good prior to the injury. Had it not been for that injury, we likely aren't even discussing Toronto as an option.


I think we would be discussing TO as an option because a healthy Reimer probably still doesn't carry the Leafs into the playoffs. Right or wrong, questions would have been asked afterwards: Could the goaltending be better? Answer: Yes, it could be. Everything _could_ be better.



But more to the point, it's this constant devaluation of the Goaltending position that has plagued Burke in two tenures (VAN and TO). Had ANA not had Giguerre in-house, that likely extends to 3 tenures. Meaning, it's too common not to be considered a pattern (if you look at it in terms of years spent looking for a solution). He just doesn't get the importance of the position.


This "flaw" stands to burn him one last time.

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10-25-2012, 06:46 AM
  #368
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Right because watching him play back-up - and mope on the bench is really going to drive his value up.
I don't think Canucks fans care if his value goes down from where it is.

The reality is, if he gets into 30 games this year and preforms as he usually does, that will be better than getting the "assets" that are being tossed around here.

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Good please keep Lou for his entire contract most of the entire fan base of every hockey market would be happy if this drama just finally ended.
Stop being a drama queen. Most fan bases don't even see this as drama. As a Canucks fan, I care what happens, why do you care?

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And how long do you think that could take? Luongo isn't getting any younger, you'd think moving him would be a priority.
Luongo isn't getting any younger but you have to admit he's got value in use, especially is Cory Schneider falters. Is "upgrading" Mason Raymond to Nazim Kadri really worth giving that up for? In my mind, it's unlikely that we'll need the cap space.

I'm sure the Bruins really regret hanging on to Thomas in 2010 while people were telling them that they need to add a pick to get rid of him and his contract.

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10-25-2012, 07:40 AM
  #369
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I really wonder, if they're trade him at all...

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10-25-2012, 08:23 AM
  #370
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Who is this "impact player" that you speak of because i havent seen anyone offering one. That's the reason we are going for futures because it wouldn't make sense for a team to get a goalie in their prime while hurting their current team. If you can greatly improve your team without losing any blue chip prospects or key roster players then it should be a good deal. I am not asking for Gardiner or Rielly but something around Bozak, Finn and a 1st (top 10 protected) is fair imo. It may seem like a lot but it's hardly trading your top prospect and witht the protection on the 1st it doesnt allow for the chance of forfeiting a high draft pick. Bozak fills a hold quite nicely in our lineup and we can improve our horrid prospect pool. I would completely understand an unwillingness to trade Finn seeing as though he is recently drafted but I truely believe the value lies arjound there. If there is only low impact players and cap dumps offered I would rather us keep Luongo because although the situation would not be ideal, we will be a better team with Luongo then with "scraps" and possible useless cap space.

you seem a lot more reasonable then some of the other vancouver fans on here. its always tough to be unbiased so i appreciate your effort. i think bozak and finn is probably doable but for me the 1st is a sticking point. there is just too much uncertainty around the leafs for them to move another 1st at this point in time. could something be substituted for the 1st that was around equal value? i get the impression that a top 10 protected 1st means you would peg it at 10-20 range? is there a combination of leaf prospects/ reasonable roster players that would equal a 10-20 pick in your opinion?

im thinking bozak, frattin, and finn and i would want some sort medium cap going back as the difference between bozak and luongo is almost $4 million. i think lombardi at one season at $3.5 million is not obscene. he could possibly even be waived?

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10-25-2012, 08:30 AM
  #371
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you seem a lot more reasonable then some of the other vancouver fans on here. its always tough to be unbiased so i appreciate your effort. i think bozak and finn is probably doable but for me the 1st is a sticking point. there is just too much uncertainty around the leafs for them to move another 1st at this point in time. could something be substituted for the 1st that was around equal value? i get the impression that a top 10 protected 1st means you would peg it at 10-20 range? is there a combination of leaf prospects/ reasonable roster players that would equal a 10-20 pick in your opinion?

im thinking bozak, frattin, and finn and i would want some sort medium cap going back as the difference between bozak and luongo is almost $4 million. i think lombardi at one season at $3.5 million is not obscene. he could possibly even be waived?
Bozak, Frattin,Colbourne, Finn/Kadri/Ashton

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10-25-2012, 08:40 AM
  #372
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Bozak, Frattin,Colbourne, Finn/Kadri/Ashton
Haha, not a chance.

And Bozak, Finn, and a first is a no-go as well.

If demands for Albatross Luongo are that outrageous, Burke just hangs up the phone and moves on.

He's not selling the farm for a 33 year old signed for another decade.

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10-25-2012, 09:00 AM
  #373
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Haha, not a chance.

And Bozak, Finn, and a first is a no-go as well.

If demands for Albatross Luongo are that outrageous, Burke just hangs up the phone and moves on.

He's not selling the farm for a 33 year old signed for another decade.
As I see your perspective as personal opinion I can look past it and use Burke's job security as a catalyst for this type of trade. Burke has more to gain in short term than long, that being not receiving a new contract or fired next year. Many Toronto fans may pretend they understand what it is like to be under this sort of pressure. I bet my money on the fact that Burke wants to keep his job and throughout his career he has never brought in top tier goaltending. This seems more and more like a self-fulfilling prophecy. These are not outrageous demands for a top 10 positional player, but I appreciate the feedback nonetheless. Make sure to cross all your t's and dot all your i's when filling out the application for Toronto Maple Leafs General Manager position. That is if you get your way on how to handle the team this year, not Burke's.

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10-25-2012, 09:23 AM
  #374
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If giving up guys like Frattin, Bozak and Colborne is "selling the farm" for the Leafs, that's a pretty ****** farm...

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10-25-2012, 09:37 AM
  #375
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People seem to be confusing Luongo and Bryzgalov. All that's happened to Luongo is the team gave their young, hard working goalie a couple of playoff games in a series that was already lost. Canucks were flat and Schnieder was a hail Mary attempt to get them going.

Speaking of Bryzgalov, the Flyers have shown no fear in thier persuit of a championship. Would they balk at one more ridiculous contract? Let Bryzgalov play for the Phantoms or in Russia. I think it's affordable. Anyway, I bet Nonis is the push behind Luongo to Toronto. Burke would probably accept Bryzgalov!

When hockey resumes the landscape will have changed and the financial paradigm will have shifted. Old goalies around the league will rust up and be finished. Prospect goalies will burn out in the minors. Foreign born goalies will go home. Guy's wives will pressure them to leave teams in Alberta and Manitoba. Undesireable franchises might move. Crappy owners will go broke. Roberto Luongo will still be a Canuck.

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