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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:18 PM
  #401
frankthetank91
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
An easy pass on either, sorry boss. Too much quantity, not enough quality.
The first proposal was accepted by a lot of Nucks fans a couple of days ago. 2nd offer I just put together if other isn't liked.

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10-25-2012, 12:19 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Well if Luongo comes out and publicly calls out Gillis, you'll have something. Until then, this is speculation. It's a situation unlike Nash, and unlike Heatley. Luongo still likes this team. He just understands it's time to go. He's resigned to the fact.


Nash every reason to want off CLB. These situations are not the same, but people keep trying to relate them? Why?
Nash was promised the team would develop and they would spend the money on personel and players, and they didn't.

Luongo said it's time to move on, but in subsequent interviews/sound bytes he has said he would be happy to return to Vancouver, and he is more or less happy here. So unlike Nash, he has not privately asked for a trade and then leaked that to the media after his request is ignored.

Heatley-gate is a whole different animal.

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10-25-2012, 12:23 PM
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Bozak, Frattin, Colborne, 2nd/Ashton

or

Kadri, Connolly, Ashton, 2nd
Both are terrible. Try more quality and less quantity. This isn't NHL13 where you can trade 4 of 5 players ranked in the 70's and acquire a player ranked in the 90's.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:25 PM
  #404
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In my mind if we get Frattin Ashton would be redundant.

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10-25-2012, 12:26 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
The first proposal was accepted by a lot of Nucks fans a couple of days ago. 2nd offer I just put together if other isn't liked.

There is a contingent of Canuck fans that will insist on the 1st or Gardiner or both. While some will be happy with that package. It all comes down to how much quality, and not quantity, some fans prefer.

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10-25-2012, 12:27 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Both are terrible. Try more quality and less quantity. This isn't NHL13 where you can trade 4 of 5 players ranked in the 70's and acquire a player ranked in the 90's.
Hmmm let's see:

Bozak becomes your 3C something you do not have.

Frattin is a good young winger who's solid, hits and can put up 15-20 goals.

Kadri becomes your best prospect.

Colborne/Ashton become top 5 prospects in your pool.

Connolly also can become your 3c.

Thats plenty of value for a piece you don't even need, fills up alot of holes.

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10-25-2012, 12:28 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
In my mind if we get Frattin Ashton would be redundant.
Agreed. In fact, Ashton probably takes over for Frattin, should the latter be dealt.

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10-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Hmmm let's see:

Bozak becomes your 3C something you do not have.

Frattin is a good young winger who's solid, hits and can put up 15-20 goals.

Kadri becomes your best prospect.

Colborne/Ashton become top 5 prospects in your pool.

Connolly also can become your 3c.

Thats plenty of value for a piece you don't even need, fills up alot of holes.

To me, it's one of Connolly/Bozak/Colborne not all, or two of. They're all fighting for the same 3C position IMO. If Colborne is included, the Canucks will try him out at 3C immediately. If they do that, they have little need for Bozak or Connolly.


Frattin sounds good, but wasn't there a rumour saying Burke was reluctant to deal him? Also, it would be Frattin/Ashton, not both, as they would be playing the same postion.


Lastly, I take it Kadri is the main piece? That's definitely going to polarize the opinion of the Canuck fanbase. Some see him as a good bet to make the NHL full time (like myself), while others don't. Opinions will differ here.

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10-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Hmmm let's see:

Bozak becomes your 3C something you do not have.

Frattin is a good young winger who's solid, hits and can put up 15-20 goals.

Kadri becomes your best prospect.

Colborne/Ashton become top 5 prospects in your pool.

Connolly also can become your 3c.

Thats plenty of value for a piece you don't even need, fills up alot of holes.
1) I would rather go with Schroeder, Lapierre, Malhotra or Ebbett at 3C. Bozak hasn't proven he's that big of an upgrade, especially when looking at his advanced defensive statistics. He's not that good.

2) How do you know Frattin will score 15-20 goals? Has he done this at the NHL level?

3) Kadri is looking more like a bust than a top prospect right now. With rumors of him not wanting to return to Toronto we could just offer sheet him if we want. He's badly out of shape and hasn't looked good at all this year. Both Kassian and Jensen are better prospects, and I'd rank Schroeder very close to Kadri based on Schroeder's superior defensive play.

4) Colborne/Ashton are not better than Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder, Gaunce, Tanev, Connauton, Lack. So no they're not top 5 prospects in our system. They also appear to have limited upside potential and will likely end up as 3rd liners.

5) Connolly is a cap dump. Don't make the mistake of assuming he has any value because we don't want him.

The value is terrible and doesn't fill up any holes.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:42 PM
  #410
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I think we would be discussing TO as an option because a healthy Reimer probably still doesn't carry the Leafs into the playoffs.
I honestly think if Reimer doesn't get injured against Montreal then Toronto makes the Playoffs in 2012. Until that game he was playing great and it was the same type of Goaltending we saw in his Rookie season of 2010-2011.

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10-25-2012, 12:43 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
1) I would rather go with Schroeder, Lapierre, Malhotra or Ebbett at 3C. Bozak hasn't proven he's that big of an upgrade, especially when looking at his advanced defensive statistics. He's not that good.

2) How do you know Frattin will score 15-20 goals? Has he done this at the NHL level?

3) Kadri is looking more like a bust than a top prospect right now. With rumors of him not wanting to return to Toronto we could just offer sheet him if we want. He's badly out of shape and hasn't looked good at all this year. Both Kassian and Jensen are better prospects, and I'd rank Schroeder very close to Kadri based on Schroeder's superior defensive play.

4) Colborne/Ashton are not better than Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder, Gaunce, Tanev, Connauton, Lack. So no they're not top 5 prospects in our system. They also appear to have limited upside potential and will likely end up as 3rd liners.

5) Connolly is a cap dump. Don't make the mistake of assuming he has any value because we don't want him.

The value is terrible and doesn't fill up any holes.
1) Bozak is better then all players you've listed. He's playing a 1st line role but would suit a 3rd line role perfectly.
2) Fair enough, but he has shown in his first season that he definately has the tools to do it.
3) Offer sheets are rare and if your going to risk doing an offer sheet I'd expect it to be a player like Weber, not Kadri. "Badly out of shape" don't believe everything the media has to say.
4) Debateable, wasn't thinking of Lack, meant forward prospects.
5) He has one more season, is not Gomez-useless, still good defensively can chip in offensively.

EDIT:

And to be clear the offers I presented were

Bozak, Frattin, Colborne and Ashton/2nd
or
Kadri, Connolly,Ashton and a 2nd

Not all of these players combined.

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Old
10-25-2012, 12:53 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
1) Bozak is better then all players you've listed. He's playing a 1st line role but would suit a 3rd line role perfectly.
2) Fair enough, but he has shown in his first season that he definately has the tools to do it.
3) Offer sheets are rare and if your going to risk doing an offer sheet I'd expect it to be a player like Weber, not Kadri. "Badly out of shape" don't believe everything the media has to say.
4) Debateable, wasn't thinking of Lack, meant forward prospects.
5) He has one more season, is not Gomez-useless, still good defensively can chip in offensively.

EDIT:

And to be clear the offers I presented were

Bozak, Frattin, Colborne and Ashton/2nd
or
Kadri, Connolly,Ashton and a 2nd

Not all of these players combined.
1) His advanced defensive stats were terrible last year, and his point production given his linemates was subpar. He wouldn't approach those numbers playing with Higgins and Kassian. He's just not that good.

2) Frattin is a decent prospect, but not a main piece for an elite goalie like Luongo.

3) too small of a sample size to judge but Kadri hasn't looked great so far in the AHL this season. I don't see him as a top prospect anymore, and his lack of a defensive game means our coach would eat him alive worse than your team has. AV hates one dimensional players.

4) amongst forward prospects Id still put Jensen, Kassian, Schroeder and Gaunce ahead of Colborne and Ashton. I don't like Colborne's lack of a gritty game, and I don't like Ashton's lack of top 6 potential. If Colborne had Ashton's grit then id be more interested in him.

5) no interest in Tim Connolly whatsoever.

Not a fan of either offer. Not a fan of quantity for quality trades were the quantity is coming our way. If you want an elite goalie then please offer a player of value rather than a bunch of "meh" pieces.

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10-25-2012, 01:00 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
1) Bozak is better then all players you've listed. He's playing a 1st line role but would suit a 3rd line role perfectly.
2) Fair enough, but he has shown in his first season that he definately has the tools to do it.
3) Offer sheets are rare and if your going to risk doing an offer sheet I'd expect it to be a player like Weber, not Kadri. "Badly out of shape" don't believe everything the media has to say.
4) Debateable, wasn't thinking of Lack, meant forward prospects.
5) He has one more season, is not Gomez-useless, still good defensively can chip in offensively.

EDIT:

And to be clear the offers I presented were

Bozak, Frattin, Colborne and Ashton/2nd
or
Kadri, Connolly,Ashton and a 2nd

Not all of these players combined.

I would probably do deal 1 if we could swap Ashton for Biggs?

Id be saying Kadri + Connolly + Ashton/Biggs for awhile now.


Last edited by Trebek: 10-25-2012 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Flaming
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Old
10-25-2012, 01:10 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I honestly think if Reimer doesn't get injured against Montreal then Toronto makes the Playoffs in 2012. Until that game he was playing great and it was the same type of Goaltending we saw in his Rookie season of 2010-2011.


I don't. TO finished with 80 points and the cut off was 92. Essentially, a 6 win differential. It takes about another 6 wins to comfortably secure a spot in the east (NYR bettered the Leafs by 16 wins).


It's a tall order. My guess is that the Leafs would have still missed, but we'll never know.

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10-25-2012, 01:13 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Both are terrible. Try more quality and less quantity. This isn't NHL13 where you can trade 4 of 5 players ranked in the 70's and acquire a player ranked in the 90's.
Shows what you know, you can't do that in NHL 13 anymore

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10-25-2012, 01:19 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Bozak, Frattin, Colborne, 2nd/Ashton

or

Kadri, Connolly, Ashton, 2nd
Option 1 minus Frattin and Colborne is a reasonable return. No need to pay any more than that.

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10-25-2012, 01:21 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Option 1 minus Frattin and Colborne is a reasonable return. No need to pay any more than that.
No need to continue on if you think that is reasonable return for a player like Luongo.

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10-25-2012, 01:21 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Option 1 minus Frattin and Colborne is a reasonable return. No need to pay any more than that.
Actually there is if you want Luongo. If not then that's fine too.

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10-25-2012, 01:21 PM
  #419
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Option 1 minus Frattin and Colborne is a reasonable return. No need to pay any more than that.
So option 1... But minus 50% of the value.

So Bozak + 2nd.

Interesting.

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10-25-2012, 01:23 PM
  #420
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Option 1 minus Frattin and Colborne is a reasonable return. No need to pay any more than that.
As a Canucks fan I'd rather keep Luongo as a challenger for the starters role that I accept that.

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10-25-2012, 01:24 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Bozak, Frattin, Colborne, 2nd/Ashton

or

Kadri, Connolly, Ashton, 2nd
I think the first one is looking good. Maybe drop the 2nd and Bozak and slip in Kadri. Nuck fans need to think out of the box with TO. They can pickup some prospects that can be developed into decent roster players. Possible future trade bait. I just don't see Burke trading any of their top players or the #1 pick.

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10-25-2012, 01:28 PM
  #422
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I think the first one is looking good. Maybe drop the 2nd and Bozak and slip in Kadri. Nuck fans need to think out of the box with TO. They can pickup some prospects that can be developed into decent roster players. Possible future trade bait. I just don't see Burke trading any of their top players or the #1 pick.

Top player yes, but the 1st rounder is standard fare when it comes to trades like this. Burke does not get Lu without that 1st IMO. (Unless of course Gardiner replaces it).

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10-25-2012, 01:28 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by blendini View Post
I think the first one is looking good. Maybe drop the 2nd and Bozak and slip in Kadri. Nuck fans need to think out of the box with TO. They can pickup some prospects that can be developed into decent roster players. Possible future trade bait. I just don't see Burke trading any of their top players or the #1 pick.
We don't need to think outside of the box with Toronto because we don't need to trade Luongo to Toronto. Burke needs Luongo more than Gillis needs to trade Luongo to Toronto specifically.

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10-25-2012, 01:36 PM
  #424
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So option 1... But minus 50% of the value.

So Bozak + 2nd.

Interesting.
2nd or Ashton.

Bozak + 2nd or Ashton + cap space for Luongo + albatross contract.

Won't be much more than that.

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10-25-2012, 01:38 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
2nd or Ashton.

Bozak + 2nd or Ashton + cap space for Luongo + albatross contract.

Won't be much more than that.
$5.33M/year long-term isn't an albatross for a top 5 goalie.

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