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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:01 PM
  #501
King Crimson
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
He also got time with the Sedin's. They can turn anyone into a goal scorer.

I'm not saying Hansen is terrible, I'm saying I don't think we'll see 15+ from him again, and I don't think he is a physical presence on the ice. I cannot picture any NHLer saying to himself before he steps onto the ice "I gotta keep my head up. Jannik Hansen is out there."

The only point I'm making is that everything good about Hansen is attributes shared with Kulemin. And Kulemin is bigger, more physical, and has proven more offensively.
So. Here's all the goals Jannik Hansen scored in the past season:



How many were scored off a Sedin primary assist? Maybe 4? And do those look like the tools of a guy who can't score 15+ goals? Honey Badger's been getting better every year, and I honestly believe he's our next Burrows.

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10-25-2012, 06:10 PM
  #502
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Guys, guys, guys....let's not do this. We love Hansen, let's keep him, if someone wants to compare him to someone, flattering or unflattering, let them. Honey Badger will be our little secret.

So no non-Leafs or non-Canucks fans left eh? Eff....

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10-25-2012, 06:18 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by King Crimson View Post
So. Here's all the goals Jannik Hansen scored in the past season:



How many were scored off a Sedin primary assist? Maybe 4? And do those look like the tools of a guy who can't score 15+ goals? Honey Badger's been getting better every year, and I honestly believe he's our next Burrows.


It's wonderful that you think that, but one cannot help but question whether or not there is some homer bias there.

Outside of last season where Hansen played with the Sedin's, his highest goal total was 9.

If Hansen can somehow turn into a 20ish goal guy, I'd be elated. Never more happy to be wrong than in this scenario. But it is highly improbable this happens. When I see Hansen, I see a great 3rd liner who may pot 12-15 goals in his prime. I don't see much if any offensive potential for him. I certainly don't see top 6 potential.

Comparing him to Burrows isn't fair. Burrows in his first year scored 2 less goals in only 43 games than Hansen's second best season.

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10-25-2012, 06:19 PM
  #504
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I'm not going to bother seeing where all this Hansen business started, but as a Leafs fan living in Vancouver, I'll definitely say that Hansen is a good player. Very fast, plays a high energy game, solid size, physical, good defensively, hard shot, not bad offensively. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Burrows (like someone mentioned above), but he's a very good 3rd line winger, who you could use on the 2nd line if necessary.

As for Hansen vs. Kulemin, I prefer Kulemin. More skilled with the puck, better shot, stronger, similar speed and defensive ability. His game isn't quite as high energy as Hansen's, and he certainly had a very poor year last season, but I think he'll bounce back, and I see him as the better player by a bit. Not a major gap or anything, though.


Last edited by ponder: 10-25-2012 at 06:26 PM.
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10-25-2012, 06:23 PM
  #505
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Ok, I haven't kept up with this whole luongo fiasco since the mods closed up the threads but is there actually legit sources saying anything about him to the leafs? Or him anywhere?

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10-25-2012, 06:28 PM
  #506
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Ok, I haven't kept up with this whole luongo fiasco since the mods closed up the threads but is there actually legit sources saying anything about him to the leafs? Or him anywhere?
Shannon claims that Luongo to the Leafs is a done deal as soon as the new CBA is signed, but doesn't know who's involved, or even if Burke and Gillis know who are involved.

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10-25-2012, 06:34 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
It's wonderful that you think that, but one cannot help but question whether or not there is some homer bias there.

Outside of last season where Hansen played with the Sedin's, his highest goal total was 9.

If Hansen can somehow turn into a 20ish goal guy, I'd be elated. Never more happy to be wrong than in this scenario. But it is highly improbable this happens. When I see Hansen, I see a great 3rd liner who may pot 12-15 goals in his prime. I don't see much if any offensive potential for him. I certainly don't see top 6 potential.

Comparing him to Burrows isn't fair. Burrows in his first year scored 2 less goals in only 43 games than Hansen's second best season.
That's not a fair representation of the facts. Burrows didn't break out until he was 28. At Hansen's age and after 2 and a half seasons he had 12 goals and 19 assists. The season before that at 25 he had 3 goals and 6 assists.

I'm in no way saying that Hansen will break out like Burrows did but so far there is nothing to say that 'stone hands' Hansen will not continue to improve just like 'stone hands' Burrows did. Anyways this thread is getting derailed from Luongo, I'll move on.

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10-25-2012, 06:41 PM
  #508
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That's not a fair representation of the facts. Burrows didn't break out until he was 28. At Hansen's age and after 2 and a half seasons he had 12 goals and 19 assists. The season before that at 25 he had 3 goals and 6 assists.

I'm in no way saying that Hansen will break out like Burrows did but so far there is nothing to say that 'stone hands' Hansen will not continue to improve just like 'stone hands' Burrows did. Anyways this thread is getting derailed from Luongo, I'll move on.
After one and a half seasons. The season he scored 12 was after 1 and a half. Not 2 and a half.

But yeah, I agree. I completely forgot this was a Luongo thread. Pretty good indication that I've helped derail it. My apologies. Lets agree to disagree.

Back on topic. I'd love to see Kulemin in a package for Luongo.

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10-25-2012, 06:43 PM
  #509
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[QUOTE=Minimalist;55282839]In two and a half seasons Burrows had 22 goals and 30 assists. Not 12g and 19a.

But yeah, I agree. I completely forgot this was a Luongo thread. Pretty good indication that I've helped derail it. My apologies. Lets agree to disagree.

Back on topic. I'd love to see Kulemin in a package for Luongo.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I think that he could bounce back. It might be a good case of buying low.


Sorry but one more Burrows I meant that in his second and a half season he had 12 goals and 19 assists. (ie not his cumulative total)
2005–06 Vancouver Canucks NHL 43 7 5 12 61 — — — — —
2006–07 Vancouver Canucks NHL 81 3 6 9 93 11 1 0 1 14
2007–08 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 12 19 31 179 — — — — —

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10-25-2012, 06:48 PM
  #510
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[QUOTE=vanwest;55282865]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
In two and a half seasons Burrows had 22 goals and 30 assists. Not 12g and 19a.

But yeah, I agree. I completely forgot this was a Luongo thread. Pretty good indication that I've helped derail it. My apologies. Lets agree to disagree.

Back on topic. I'd love to see Kulemin in a package for Luongo.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I think that he could bounce back. It might be a good case of buying low.


Sorry but one more Burrows I meant that in his second and a half season he had 12 goals and 19 assists. (ie not his cumulative total)
200506 Vancouver Canucks NHL 43 7 5 12 61
200607 Vancouver Canucks NHL 81 3 6 9 93 11 1 0 1 14
200708 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 12 19 31 179
Yeah, there was a misinterpretation of what you were saying on my part. You worded it kind of funny. I edited it, but you quoted me before I could swap it out.

But yeah, Kulemin is a Gillis type of player. Plays hard, physical, and is coming of a down year. A project player where we could buy low and reap the rewards if he bounces back. Which I think he will do.

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10-25-2012, 06:50 PM
  #511
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[QUOTE=Minimalist;55282993]
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

Yeah, there was a misinterpretation of what you were saying on my part. You worded it kind of funny. I edited it, but you quoted me before I could swap it out.

But yeah, Kulemin is a Gillis type of player. Plays hard, physical, and is coming of a down year. A project player where we could buy low and reap the rewards if he bounces back. Which I think he will do.
Are you worried about the 7 goals though? I admit that when I have watched him I have been impressed with the work ethic of him and Grabovski. That's a pretty brutal season for Kulemin though offensively.

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10-25-2012, 07:01 PM
  #512
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[QUOTE=vanwest;55283051]
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Are you worried about the 7 goals though? I admit that when I have watched him I have been impressed with the work ethic of him and Grabovski. That's a pretty brutal season for Kulemin though offensively.
The 7 goal season is the lowest of his career. He's potted 15+ in his other seasons.

Plus, Kesler and Booth are vastly superior linemates to Grabo and Mac. Assuming he would play on the second.

I see him as a great stop gap on the second line until Kassian is ready to take over that spot.

Plus, what I really like about Kulemin is that is that he would also make a formidable 3rd liner. Gritty, hard working. Very much an AV type of guy.

So having him in our lineup gives AV some options to mix and match to get things going if production isn't where it needs to be. As is, apart from Higgins, who really fits that second line role well? Hansen isn't an ideal choice, and Raymond still has a lot to prove before he can get that spot back. But with Kulemin in the lineup, it just gives us that much more flexibility and depth.

I am a bit concerned with his terrible season, but I want him on this team. I believe we are much better overall, have better depth, and more options in every situation with him than without him.

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10-25-2012, 07:07 PM
  #513
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[QUOTE=Minimalist;55283341]
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post

The 7 goal season is the lowest of his career. He's potted 15+ in his other seasons.

Plus, Kesler and Booth are vastly superior linemates to Grabo and Mac. Assuming he would play on the second.

I see him as a great stop gap on the second line until Kassian is ready to take over that spot.

Plus, what I really like about Kulemin is that is that he would also make a formidable 3rd liner. Gritty, hard working. Very much an AV type of guy.

So having him in our lineup gives AV some options to mix and match to get things going if production isn't where it needs to be. As is, apart from Higgins, who really fits that second line role well? Hansen isn't an ideal choice, and Raymond still has a lot to prove before he can get that spot back. But with Kulemin in the lineup, it just gives us that much more flexibility and depth.

I am a bit concerned with his terrible season, but I want him on this team. I believe we are much better overall, have better depth, and more options in every situation with him than without him.
Thanks for your views. He sounds like the type of player who can move up and down the line up which would definitely be useful.

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10-25-2012, 07:17 PM
  #514
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I like Kulemin as a buy-low option right now - if the Leafs trade him for that, coming off a pretty bad season. I wouldn't consider moving Hansen for him however. Hansen at his salary provides better insurance for this team than Kulemin at his salary.

With that said, Kulemin would be a player I'd take a chance on in a 2nd line role. He's coming off a bad season and needs to bounce back, but his overall game fits in well with the type of forwards AV likes. He definitely has more offensive upside than Hansen, and therefore could be a good 2nd line player for this team.

Hansen is already the perfect 3rd line player though... everything you want in a 3rd line winger - plays hard every shift, great defensively, total energy guy, and very versatile - which is a huge asset for a 3rd liner - in that he can play on any of the lines, on either wing, and rarely (if ever) seems to look out of place with any linemates he's played with. You don't deal players like this because they will always be worth more to your team than on the market.

With Kulemin, I'd prefer him over Raymond in a top-6 role (especially given the way that AV runs this team), and with Higgins as good insurance, it gives the team a chance to see if Kulemin can bounce back. If not, he's still an asset for the 3rd line (albeit an expensive option for that role).

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10-25-2012, 07:22 PM
  #515
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7 goals is brutal though. really bad. I'd roll the dice on him, but only as a throw-in for Luongo. There would have to be a more attractive/valuable piece involved, otherwise I don't even want him.

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10-25-2012, 07:24 PM
  #516
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Kulemin, Kadri, Biggs and Finn

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10-25-2012, 07:30 PM
  #517
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Kulemin, Kadri, Biggs and Finn
for me that is over payment by the leafs. Vancouver would need to add Raymond and a d-man not named Ballard

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10-25-2012, 07:33 PM
  #518
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for me that is over payment by the leafs. Vancouver would need to add Raymond and a d-man not named Ballard
what d man did you have in mind?

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10-25-2012, 07:40 PM
  #519
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We'll see.
In my view you guys are saying you have too many untouchables though. If I was in your shoes I'd want to hang onto the good players as well. I doubt that Gillis has that same view though.
As much as Canucks fans like to debate how crummy the Leafs fans offers are, they need to realize we've been the youngest/second youngest team for years now. A very young team still growing and although getting Luongo would vault us into the playoffs, and likely lose in the first round, Luongo doesn't get us to the cup. If we're going to see the Leafs gut their prospect pool, it's just not going to be for a goalie in their 30's. If our top assets like Gardiner,first round picks,Finn etc are gonna be dealt, it will be for a younger guy. By the time this team is ready to contend, Luongo will likely start declining. I'm talking 2,3,4 years down the road. So at the end of the day, do we simply want to see playoffs or do we want a team that actually has a shot at the cup? Burke was offered Vokoun for a 7th rounder. You could definitely make the argument that Vokoun would give us similar projections i.e putting us in a playoff spot.

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10-25-2012, 07:41 PM
  #520
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what d man did you have in mind?
The last thing the Leafs need to add is more defense. We have too many guys as is with more coming from the minors.

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10-25-2012, 07:42 PM
  #521
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Kulemin, Kadri, Biggs and Finn
Oh okay, so you want, basically, four first round picks?

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10-25-2012, 07:45 PM
  #522
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7 goals is brutal though. really bad. I'd roll the dice on him, but only as a throw-in for Luongo. There would have to be a more attractive/valuable piece involved, otherwise I don't even want him.
Kulemin is easily our best defensive forward. You cannot ignore how screwed up Kulemin was after all his buddies, including his mentor, died in that KHL plane crash. You also can't ignore what he did the season before that. A high shooting percentage yes, but it's a pretty safe assumption this guy will be a 20-25 goal scorer for most of his career. One of those guys I love having in the top 6 and would hate to trade.

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10-25-2012, 07:48 PM
  #523
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what d man did you have in mind?
Robert Nordmark

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10-25-2012, 07:50 PM
  #524
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Kulemin is easily our best defensive forward. You cannot ignore how screwed up Kulemin was after all his buddies, including his mentor, died in that KHL plane crash. You also can't ignore what he did the season before that. A high shooting percentage yes, but it's a pretty safe assumption this guy will be a 20-25 goal scorer for most of his career. One of those guys I love having in the top 6 and would hate to trade.
there's a YT compilation of all 30 of his goals the year before last, it's pretty impressive
majority were from crashing the net, and several were from some pretty nice snipes (with more than a few total garbage...)

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10-25-2012, 07:52 PM
  #525
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for me that is over payment by the leafs. Vancouver would need to add Raymond and a d-man not named Ballard
Raymond and Kulemin are a wash.

I'll throw in Andrew Alberts for the hell of it.

Then it comes down to Luongo for Kadri, Biggs and Finn. I wouldn't do that.

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