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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-27-2012, 03:13 PM
  #851
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Florida has perhaps the best prospect depth and they don't seem interested in giving any plum prospects for Luongo. So apparently this isn't an issue of Toronto having nothing to offer to get Luongo.

FLA's top end of their prospect is also highly regarded. So you're not comparing apples to apples.


Also, I believe the Dreger reference satisfies our agreement. Correct?

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10-27-2012, 03:18 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
FLA's top end of their prospect is also highly regarded. So you're not comparing apples to apples.


Also, I believe the Dreger reference satisfies our agreement. Correct?
My point was, is this a case of Toronto having nothing to offer as the poster claimed? Since Florida isn't offering that much for Luongo maybe his value simply isn't that high and it's not a matter of the Leafs having nothing but crap to offer.

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10-27-2012, 03:20 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
What did Eakins say again?

Also, have you taken a look at my Dreger reference about CBJ being involved it talks? This should satisfy your requirements.


The speculation about _only_ TO and FLA should not persist beyond this point, per our criteria. Agreed?
Eakins said he was in the bottom 5% on the Marlies for body fat and was in the middle for the skating drills. He has since said he's done everything asked of him.

And no I didn't see the post but I'll take your word if Dreger said it. That still leaves 3, possibly 4 teams and we only know that Luongo has agreed to go to 2 of them. The whole premise was the options are very limited.

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10-27-2012, 03:21 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by bcjonny View Post
What if ...

The tandem works out.

Who says ...

Schneider does not get hurt a few games into the season.

Its a great insurance policy at the most critical position in the sport. No matter how much some GM's like to marginalize it.

Some people forget it was only a couple of years since we had to trade Bieksa as we were going to be way over the cap. Sometimes the best trade to make is the one you don't make. If there was an ounce of panic in GMMG he would have dealt Bieksa and then would have been down a D man going into the playoffs.
Some people forget that if the owners and the PA don't come to an agreement there won't be any trades regardless and if there is some resolution to the CBA this year it will have to be a condensed season i.e. 2 games in 3 nights, 3 games in 4 nights. it would be in our best interests to keep both goalies till at least the deadline if not the whole season, give them a game each and let the better goalie start the playoffs. Because "Sometimes the best trade to make is the one you don't make."

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10-27-2012, 03:40 PM
  #855
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Vancouver can't end up winning this trade I think. This is at least if Bozak is the best player they get in a trade, and get no high-level prospect. Of course it's for sure that no player they get back will be going to be as good player Luongo is now (while hard to compare goaltenders and players).

Vancouver can however benefit from a few things, such as getting more capspace and getting more depth. So maybe I was too hasty saying that they can't win this trade, however what I'm trying to say is that if a team can get Luongo with the best player being a caliber of Bozak - this will be huge win for the team getting him. I think it's not a good moment trading him and teams realize that Vancouver does have some pressure to trade him.

Maybe a bit offtopic but I still believe trading Cory Schneider would be the way to go. You can get more of an impact player back for him and Luongo would still carry for the Vancouver cup window before the Sedins decline too much. Without Sedins, I don't feel that Canucks can be a cup contender, borderline playoff team seems more possible. And then Canuks still has Lack being a possibility of being a nice goaltender in the future too.
Not if their GM is in fact of the same mind as the majority of posters here, ie the likes of gardiner, jvr, reilly, 1st, even lupul, are untouchables (not even mentioning kessel) ... Then it really does come down to quality for quantity, and the one getting quantity aomost never wins.

I too would seriously entertain schneider offers, esp if they really are significantly higher than Luo offers.
If they could get something like one of the Oilers big 4 for Schneids plus, you have to entertain that option seriously.

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10-27-2012, 03:41 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
FLA's top end of their prospect is also highly regarded. So you're not comparing apples to apples.
What do you think makes their prospects more highly regarded compared to Jake Gardiner, Morgan Reilly, Matt Frattin, Nazem Kadri, Tyler Biggs, Stuart Percy, Matt Finn and etc.

In my opinion Toronto fans not wanting to give them up is the exact thinking as the Florida fans. So what does that have to do with who are the better prospects?

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10-27-2012, 03:48 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
My point was, is this a case of Toronto having nothing to offer as the poster claimed? Since Florida isn't offering that much for Luongo maybe his value simply isn't that high and it's not a matter of the Leafs having nothing but crap to offer.
The only prospect we know is off the table is Bjugstad. And he's better than any prospect in the Leafs organization except Rielly.

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10-27-2012, 03:58 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Eakins said he was in the bottom 5% on the Marlies for body fat and was in the middle for the skating drills. He has since said he's done everything asked of him.

And no I didn't see the post but I'll take your word if Dreger said it. That still leaves 3, possibly 4 teams and we only know that Luongo has agreed to go to 2 of them. The whole premise was the options are very limited.
Your whole premise is wrong, Gillis has never asked Luongo to waive his NTC for any team. Loungo has never provided nor been asked to provide a list of any teams he would or wouldn't go to, he has said he would prefer FLA but realises that may not be possible.

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10-27-2012, 04:00 PM
  #859
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Your whole premise is wrong, Gillis has never asked Luongo to waive his NTC for any team. Loungo has never provided nor been asked to provide a list of any teams he would or wouldn't go to, he has said he would prefer FLA but realises that may not be possible.
Forgive me if I take Darren Dreger's word over yours.. he's stated FLA, TOR and CHI as teams on Luongo's "list" but did say there has been no formal process for waiving

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10-27-2012, 04:02 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The only prospect we know is off the table is Bjugstad. And he's better than any prospect in the Leafs organization except Rielly.
Not that I would want Toronto to give up Jake Gardiner but what makes Nick Bjugstad better then anyone in the Leafs organization? He hasn't played 1 game in the NHL, where as someone like Gardiner played 75 games for Toronto in 2011-2012, had 30 points and made the All Rookie Team among Defensman.

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10-27-2012, 04:05 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Not that I would want Toronto to give up Jake Gardiner but what makes Nick Bjugstad better then anyone in the Leafs organization? He hasn't played 1 game in the NHL, where as someone like Gardiner played 75 games for Toronto in 2011-2012, had 30 points and made the All Rookie Team among Defensman.
Because Gardiner isn't a prospect...I did say prospect, right?

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10-27-2012, 04:05 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Forgive me if I take Darren Dreger's word over yours.. he's stated FLA, TOR and CHI as teams on Luongo's "list" but did say there has been no formal process for waiving
We are taking the words of Luongo, the guy in question, over Dreger. Primary source > secondary source.

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10-27-2012, 04:06 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Eakins said he was in the bottom 5% on the Marlies for body fat and was in the middle for the skating drills. He has since said he's done everything asked of him.

I have just read up on it again and re-watched the video where Kadri essentially defends himself. Not a good thing at all. Is this the usual practice in TO for all their prospects?


Quote:
And no I didn't see the post but I'll take your word if Dreger said it. That still leaves 3, possibly 4 teams and we only know that Luongo has agreed to go to 2 of them. The whole premise was the options are very limited.

Oh you can see it, it's a page or two back. Go on and take a look.


The teams speculated to show interest have been 6 in count: EDM, CLB, TOR, FLA, CHI and a 6th "mystery team" that some reporters have speculated to be SJS. I can provide links to each of these claims. And until you can provide links stating that it's _only_ 3 or _only_ 4, there is no basis for you to continue saying so. Doing otherwise will continue to have people call you on it, and will continue to bog down this thread with people clarifying otherwise. Your call.


And what is your source stating that Luongo has agreed to go to 2 teams? My understanding is that he has only green-lighted FLA.

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10-27-2012, 04:13 PM
  #864
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Because Gardiner isn't a prospect...I did say prospect, right?
In your opinion he may not be a prospect right now however there is always a chance of him remaining with the Marlies once the NHL season starts and wouldn't that make him a prospect once again? It happened to Keith Aulie who spent most the 2010-2011 season with the Leafs after they traded Francois Beauchemin, so he assumed the next season he would have a guaranteed roster spot. We all know that never happened and the same could happen with Gardiner, although chances are it won't.

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10-27-2012, 04:15 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
He may not be a prospect however there is always a chance of him remaining with the Marlies once the season starts and wouldn't that make him a prospect? It happened to Keith Aulie who spent most the 2010-2011 season with the Leafs after they traded Francois Beauchemin, so he assumed the next season he would have a guaranteed roster spot. We all know that never happened and the same could happen with Gardiner, although chances are it won't.
I was simply going by prospects, and if Bjugstad is off the table for Florida, that means a prospect like Kadri could very well be on the table for Toronto. Having an untouchables list comprising of Frattin and Finn is just plain wrong.

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10-27-2012, 04:17 PM
  #866
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We are taking the words of Luongo, the guy in question, over Dreger. Primary source > secondary source.
Do you honestly think Luongo and Gillis would come out in the media and say these are the following teams he would agree to be traded to. It doesn't make sense and will put Gillis in a even worse situation when it comes to getting something in return because then the public knows which teams are in and which are out, so that's why I believe Dreger over both of them.

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10-27-2012, 04:18 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
My point was, is this a case of Toronto having nothing to offer as the poster claimed? Since Florida isn't offering that much for Luongo maybe his value simply isn't that high and it's not a matter of the Leafs having nothing but crap to offer.

Or perhaps you are drawing a line between the two teams that simple doesn't exist.


FLA's prospects are more highly regarded, so you will have to quantify what "not that much" means in relation to the difference.


FLA's need is less as well. They have a starter that is more well regarded than Reimer.


FLA's pressure is less also. Questions about Burke's tenure are starting to be asked. His longevity in that market is starting to be speculated on. Tallon doesn't have that pressure.


Apples to apples.

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10-27-2012, 04:23 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Do you honestly think Luongo and Gillis would come out in the media and say these are the following teams he would agree to be traded to. It doesn't make sense and will put Gillis in a even worse situation when it comes to getting something in return because then the public knows which teams are in and which are out, so that's why I believe Dreger over both of them.
Do you honestly believe that journalists, even Dreger, aren't simply out to increase circulation? We have no reason, not one single reason, to distrust Luongo. You can't simply state "well they have an agenda, they can't be trusted". We trust the two guys most involved in our teams success and creating a winning atmosphere here above even the most credulous of journalists. You're not on the same page as us? Grand, let's discuss it. But every statement now a days, from players, staff, management, and the media are crafted and sculpted to not interfere with pre-decided goals. Don't act like its just our side that are biased and not giving us the whole story. It's everyone, by saying our guys can't be trusted for that reason, literally every statement would have to be thrown out.

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10-27-2012, 04:24 PM
  #869
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FLA's need is less as well. They have a starter that is more well regarded than Reimer.
If James Reimer never got hurt last season chances are he plays exactly the same way we saw in his Rookie season of 2010-2011. Up until his injury Reimer was 4-0-1 with a very good GAA and save %. I honestly think if he played like that Toronto makes the Playoffs and are not in the talk about getting Luongo.

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10-27-2012, 04:31 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
If James Reimer never got hurt last season chances are he plays exactly the same way we saw in his Rookie season of 2010-2011. Up until his injury Reimer was 4-0-1 with a very good GAA and save %. I honestly think if he played like that Toronto makes the Playoffs and are not in the talk about getting Luongo.

But he didn't. That's the fact here. Subsequently, Burke outlined goaltending as a need. Coincidence? I think not.


Theodore's resume is a lot stronger than Reimer's own. Even in the early years. You can continue to deal in hypotheticals or realize FLA is much better in the net in the here and now.

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10-27-2012, 04:31 PM
  #871
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Do you honestly believe that journalists, even Dreger, aren't simply out to increase circulation? We have no reason, not one single reason, to distrust Luongo. You can't simply state "well they have an agenda, they can't be trusted". We trust the two guys most involved in our teams success and creating a winning atmosphere here above even the most credulous of journalists. You're not on the same page as us? Grand, let's discuss it. But every statement now a days, from players, staff, management, and the media are crafted and sculpted to not interfere with pre-decided goals. Don't act like its just our side that are biased and not giving us the whole story. It's everyone, by saying our guys can't be trusted for that reason, literally every statement would have to be thrown out.
Usually when a Hockey Insider mentions what teams are interested in a player or if a team is planning to trade someone they are usually right. Before Toronto traded Kris Versteeg to the Flyers I remember hearing that from Pierre LeBrun and Darren Dreger. They didn't know what teams were interested, however they were right that in the end he would be traded.

How about all the talk that Brian Burke was about to fire Ron Wilson. In the past Burke would have come out and defended him to the media and etc, however after the Leafs fans did that "Fire Wilson" chant at the Air Canada Centre Burke said nothing, then 3 days later Wilson was fired.

If you want to believe Luongo and Gillis over someone like Dreger that's your decision and I respect it. However usually he has a good record of getting things right and let's not act like he's in the league with Eklund.

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10-27-2012, 04:35 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Usually when a Hockey Insider mentions what teams are interested in a player or if a team is planning to trade someone they are usually right. Before Toronto traded Kris Versteeg to the Flyers I remember hearing that from Pierre LeBrun and Darren Dreger. They didn't know what teams were interested, however they were right that in the end he would be traded.

How about all the talk that Brian Burke was about to fire Ron Wilson. In the past Burke would have come out and defended him to the media and etc, however after the Leafs fans did that "Fire Wilson" chant at the Air Canada Centre Burke said nothing, then 3 days later Wilson was fired.

If you want to believe Luongo and Gillis over someone like Dreger that's your decision and I respect it. However usually he has a good record of getting things right and let's not act like he's in the league with Eklund.
I'd never lump Dreger in with Eklund, but at the same time...we're in another NHL lock out, one that has been looming all summer. To say that hasn't affected what kind of breaking stories we hear about...I just couldn't say that with a straight face. Even the best of us have to make compromises, right?

All the same, on this point, since you don't have our GM and our player, neither of whom have been secretive or deceiving to us, as references, Dreger would seem like a better bet then other options to listen to, I just believe our guys, especially when it comes to details like these. To each his own.

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10-27-2012, 04:36 PM
  #873
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But he didn't. That's the fact here. Subsequently, Burke outlined goaltending as a need. Coincidence? I think not.


Theodore's resume is a lot stronger than Reimer's own. Even in the early years. You can continue to deal in hypotheticals or realize FLA is much better in the net in the here and now.
Weather he means it or not Burke also said he would be ok going with Reimer and Scrivens if he wasn't able to trade for another Goalie.

I have no doubt that on paper Theodore's resume is better then Reimer's, however I think he was lucky last season. Traditonally the Southeast Divison is the weakest one in the NHL and look at what happened. Washington wasn't playing their best and just made the Playoffs, Tampa Bay was a major disappointment after getting to Game 7 of the 2011 Eastern Conference Finals, Carolina was another disappointment and I can't see Winnipeg ready to win just yet. So if anything last season the Panthers were very lucky to have won that Division.

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10-27-2012, 04:41 PM
  #874
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If James Reimer never got hurt last season chances are he plays exactly the same way we saw in his Rookie season of 2010-2011. Up until his injury Reimer was 4-0-1 with a very good GAA and save %. I honestly think if he played like that Toronto makes the Playoffs and are not in the talk about getting Luongo.
I guess we have different thoughts on what constitutes 'very good'. Through that minuscule five game sample size you quoted, Reimer put up a GAA of 2.55 and a SV% of .913. That would have placed him 23rd in GAA and 28th in SV% out of goalies who played 30+ games last season.

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10-27-2012, 04:53 PM
  #875
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I'd never lump Dreger in with Eklund, but at the same time...we're in another NHL lock out, one that has been looming all summer. To say that hasn't affected what kind of breaking stories we hear about...I just couldn't say that with a straight face. Even the best of us have to make compromises, right?
I can agree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn
All the same, on this point, since you don't have our GM and our player, neither of whom have been secretive or deceiving to us, as references, Dreger would seem like a better bet then other options to listen to, I just believe our guys, especially when it comes to details like these. To each his own.
Like I said before if you want to believe Luongo and Gillis that's great and I respect it. Just the same way I would want to believe Dreger when I hear any news about Luongo.

Also not sure how much stock I would put into this but Dreger is a second cousin of Dave Nonis and I wonder if he gets his Leafs rumours from him? Then again maybe he has a rule of not going to him for information.

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