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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-27-2012, 04:55 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
He hasn't shown signs to this point. When the season goes longer and longer and he's barely playing as a veteran goalie with not many years left at his regular level of play chances are he's going to get pissed and start saying **** in post game interviews that sparks distraction. Phil kessel once said "it's not working out here" in relation to the way the team was going and media went nuts saying he wanted out of Toronto. That's the kind of stuff that will be happening all year long.

Opposing teams didn't make this up. The actual people involved started all of it by using horrible asset management



I'm not sure why you're getting worried about this thread... Since last night there has been solid debate going both ways without name calling or anything like that.
No it won't. Luongo will sit and wait patiently. Gillis is holding all the cards here. I don't think it will happen but if the Luongo situation does become a problem we could easily dump him on waivers.

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10-27-2012, 04:56 PM
  #877
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I guess we have different thoughts on what constitutes 'very good'. Through that minuscule five game sample size you quoted, Reimer put up a GAA of 2.55 and a SV% of .913. That would have placed him 23rd in GAA and 28th in SV% out of goalies who played 30+ games last season.
He also had a shutout in the Leafs season opener and yes I say those numbers aren't as bad as you think.

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10-27-2012, 04:59 PM
  #878
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We are taking the words of Luongo, the guy in question, over Dreger. Primary source > secondary source.
You're taking the word of the player who is being professional but has publicly stated he'd like to go to another NHL team as well... hrmmm

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I have just read up on it again and re-watched the video where Kadri essentially defends himself. Not a good thing at all. Is this the usual practice in TO for all their prospects?
He defends himself by saying he felt good and then responded by doing everything the coach asked anyways... I wouldn't say that's usual at all no but I have no complaints at all.



Quote:
Oh you can see it, it's a page or two back. Go on and take a look.


The teams speculated to show interest have been 6 in count: EDM, CLB, TOR, FLA, CHI and a 6th "mystery team" that some reporters have speculated to be SJS. I can provide links to each of these claims. And until you can provide links stating that it's _only_ 3 or _only_ 4, there is no basis for you to continue saying so. Doing otherwise will continue to have people call you on it, and will continue to bog down this thread with people clarifying otherwise. Your call.


And what is your source stating that Luongo has agreed to go to 2 teams? My understanding is that he has only green-lighted FLA.
You're taking "reports" from beat writers of cities not even involved trying to make a name for themselves. You can continue to believe them all you want but I choose to only listen to the ones who consistently report things that come to fruition and so far I've seen 5 teams, one of which was only reported to be on Luongo's list but not involved in talks (CHI) and one who was apparently brought up once but clearly wasn't important enough to keep talking about (CLB) and one who Luongo wants to go to but can't afford to take on the contract (FLA) which leaves Toronto and possibly EDM who I have yet to see a reliable report on either.


Last edited by TieClark: 10-27-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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10-27-2012, 05:02 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
He also had a shutout in the Leafs season opener and yes I say those numbers aren't as bad as you think.
Well the numbers clearly put him in the bottom third of the league in goaltending. So even if he did sustain them (big if) and the Leafs did make the playoffs, they would be doing it in spite of their goaltending, not because of it.

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10-27-2012, 05:11 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Weather he means it or not Burke also said he would be ok going with Reimer and Scrivens if he wasn't able to trade for another Goalie.

I know, he's contradicted himself many a time. But ask yourself this, how foolish is it of a GM to ever come out and say that he's looking for a goaltending upgrade, and then expect his tandem to play for him?


For him to ever come out and say he's looking for an upgrade is tantamount to throwing his goalies under the bus. And any subsequent lip service should be seen as only as damage control. He should have never said it.


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I have no doubt that on paper Theodore's resume is better then Reimer's, however I think he was lucky last season. Traditonally the Southeast Divison is the weakest one in the NHL and look at what happened. Washington wasn't playing their best and just made the Playoffs, Tampa Bay was a major disappointment after getting to Game 7 of the 2011 Eastern Conference Finals, Carolina was another disappointment and I can't see Winnipeg ready to win just yet. So if anything last season the Panthers were very lucky to have won that Division.

I too believe luck played a part in Theodore's performance, but it doesn't matter. Odds are, based on his past play, he does better than Reimer next year. So it's no surprise FLA is not pushing hard for Lu. And also no surprise Burke is speculated to be after the CBA is ratified. These are two very different situations.

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10-27-2012, 05:47 PM
  #881
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You're taking the word of the player who is being professional but has publicly stated he'd like to go to another NHL team as well... hrmmm
You've just pissed away your last little bit of credibility. You're now just saying things without actually looking into it with no proof. He said it may be time to move on, not that he'd like to play elsewhere. Even Eklund can listen to an interview.

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10-27-2012, 05:52 PM
  #882
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You've just pissed away your last little bit of credibility. You're now just saying things without actually looking into it with no proof. He said it may be time to move on, not that he'd like to play elsewhere. Even Eklund can listen to an interview.
Saying "a return to Florida makes sense" (actual Luongo quote) means he wants to play elsewhere. You don't say moving to another team makes sense without fully anticipating a move.

Just because he's not being an idiot about this and acting completely professional doesn't mean he doesn't a) want out and/or b) expect to be moved

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10-27-2012, 06:17 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
He defends himself by saying he felt good and then responded by doing everything the coach asked anyways... I wouldn't say that's usual at all no but I have no complaints at all.

So it's not usual, but you have no complaints? Either ripping TO prospects is common place, or it's not.


Quote:
You're taking "reports" from beat writers of cities not even involved trying to make a name for themselves. You can continue to believe them all you want but I choose to only listen to the ones who consistently report things that come to fruition and so far I've seen 5 teams, one of which was only reported to be on Luongo's list but not involved in talks (CHI) and one who was apparently brought up once but clearly wasn't important enough to keep talking about (CLB) and one who Luongo wants to go to but can't afford to take on the contract (FLA) which leaves Toronto and possibly EDM who I have yet to see a reliable report on either.

Four destinations have been confirmed by Dreger himself.


The last 2, EDM and the "mystery" team, have their own legit sources. More than one (Botchford, who frequents TSN, is one).


The fact that you don't consider Botchford and others not named Dreger or Mackenzie a legit source is laughable and shows a certain bias. Many in VAN think Dreger doesn't have a clue about their team. But regardless, Dreger has already confirmed 4 teams of the 6, which means that your _only_ 2 teams comment has been soundly defeated. Hopefully, it shows people viewing this conversation how clear the bias is here.

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10-27-2012, 06:35 PM
  #884
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I like Washington as the other destination. They have Holtby, but they've been banking on these young guys often and it has come back to burn them. McPhee has to be on the hotseat too.

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10-27-2012, 06:41 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Back in 94 View Post
No it won't. Luongo will sit and wait patiently. Gillis is holding all the cards here. I don't think it will happen but if the Luongo situation does become a problem we could easily dump him on waivers.
lol... why would you dump him on waivers rather than get a few pieces in a trade?

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
So it's not usual, but you have no complaints? Either ripping TO prospects is common place, or it's not.
Are you talking about Kadri defending himself or Eakins comments? Eakins hardly "ripped him". He was asked a direct question about Kadri and answered honestly, and did the same when asked a few days ago about Kadri.


Quote:
Four destinations have been confirmed by Dreger himself.


The last 2, EDM and the "mystery" team, have their own legit sources. More than one (Botchford, who frequents TSN, is one).


The fact that you don't consider Botchford and others not named Dreger or Mackenzie a legit source is laughable and shows a certain bias. Many in VAN think Dreger doesn't have a clue about their team. But regardless, Dreger has already confirmed 4 teams of the 6, which means that your _only_ 2 teams comment has been soundly defeated. Hopefully, it shows people viewing this conversation how clear the bias is here.
Who in the hell is Botchford? The fact that I had to look him up to find he's a beat writer for the canucks speaks to how reliable he is.

Dreger confirmed Toronto, Florida, CLB apparently once and said CHI was on Luongo's list but never mentioned that they were actually talking. Again... the fact remains the market is very, very small and the contract is very, very large.

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10-27-2012, 07:11 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
lol... why would you dump him on waivers rather than get a few pieces in a trade?


Are you talking about Kadri defending himself or Eakins comments? Eakins hardly "ripped him". He was asked a direct question about Kadri and answered honestly, and did the same when asked a few days ago about Kadri.



Who in the hell is Botchford? The fact that I had to look him up to find he's a beat writer for the canucks speaks to how reliable he is.

Dreger confirmed Toronto, Florida, CLB apparently once and said CHI was on Luongo's list but never mentioned that they were actually talking. Again... the fact remains the market is very, very small and the contract is very, very large.
Of course we could trade him, but with some of the offers being thrown around here dumping him on waivers is an option.

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10-27-2012, 07:15 PM
  #887
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I like Washington as the other destination. They have Holtby, but they've been banking on these young guys often and it has come back to burn them. McPhee has to be on the hotseat too.
Might be. I think there is a chance that tem mystery team is Detroit. Howard has been not bad, but he is a UFA after next year and Luongo would be a big upgrade in net.

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10-27-2012, 07:15 PM
  #888
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Does Tampa Bay's attendance go up by a couple of thousand when they make the playoffs? They didn't make the playoffs last year, yet their building was 96% full for the season. Their attendance couldn't jump by a couple of thousand unless they played in an NFL stadium.
TB is actually part of my example. You have to remember there is lag between performance and attendance.

In 2009-10 they missed the playoffs and attendance was 15,497. In 2010-11 they made the playoffs and attendance went up to 17, 268. 2011-12 three is carryover from the run to the Eastern finals and attendance was 18,468. I'd bet if they miss the playoffs that attendance is way down this year.

It followed the same pattern the lag time the team was successful. In 2001-02 they missed the playoffs and attendance was in the mid 15s. The next year they made the playoffs and attendance went up to the mid 16s. The next year they won the Cup and attendance was in the high 17s. The next season attendance was in the 20s but they missed the playoffs. They missed again and attendance dropped to high 19s, then 18s, the 16s. Being successful increased their attendance from 16k to 20k, when they weren't successful again attendance went back down to the 16s.

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10-27-2012, 07:16 PM
  #889
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Of course we could trade him, but with some of the offers being thrown around here dumping him on waivers is an option.
You might as well take Bozak plus the prospects or whatever keeps being offered.. at least you get pieces you can use

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10-27-2012, 07:23 PM
  #890
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A quick break in the action to give a tip of the hat to the moderators ....im not sure you're getting paid enough to wade through all this. Youre doing the lord's work, keep up the good work..

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10-27-2012, 07:37 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Are you talking about Kadri defending himself or Eakins comments? Eakins hardly "ripped him". He was asked a direct question about Kadri and answered honestly, and did the same when asked a few days ago about Kadri.


Yes. He was honestly negative = ripping Kadri, and he was honestly positive = saving face. Again, I don't know how it works in TO, but this doesn't happen elsewhere often.



Quote:
Who in the hell is Botchford? The fact that I had to look him up to find he's a beat writer for the canucks speaks to how reliable he is.

Dreger confirmed Toronto, Florida, CLB apparently once and said CHI was on Luongo's list but never mentioned that they were actually talking. Again... the fact remains the market is very, very small and the contract is very, very large.


Botchford has appeared on TSN on multiple occasions. I guess the TSN guys seek out unreliable types? They had once procured Dreger too, while he was a local TV hack before he even got to TO. We knew him before you did... He is no more an authority as other reporters who make their living in the same way.


You know what's funny about this, you confirm 3 teams by your own admission, which goes directly against your earlier 2 teams falsehood, and you still can't see you are contradicting yourself.


Farhan Lalji was on Team1040 and reported the Luongo to CHI rumour. He is a TSN reporter. Then, it was corroborated by Botchford, another TSN personality. If TSN is god to you, why are these TSN people being ignored? If Dreger is god to you, it's still 3 teams + a comment on the 4th, so you're still wrong. Get it?

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10-27-2012, 07:48 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Yes. He was honestly negative = ripping Kadri, and he was honestly positive = saving face. Again, I don't know how it works in TO, but this doesn't happen elsewhere resulting in a good relationship between team and player.
That's not ripping... people took what he said and twisted it into him calling him fat and out of shape which. Dallas Eakins is praised by all who've been coached by him.




Quote:
Botchford has appeared on TSN on multiple occasions. I guess the TSN guys seek out unreliable types? They had once procured Dreger too, while he was a local TV hack before he even got to TO. We knew him before you did... He is no more an authority as other reporters who make their living in the same way.
Dreger has a full time job with TSN... this Botchford isn't even known outside of Vancouver.


Quote:
You know what's funny about this, you confirm 3 teams by your own admission, which goes directly against your earlier 2 teams falsehood, and you still can't see you are contradicting yourself.
Sure.. if you take one team who can't afford his contract and another who was mentioned once as teams involved then sure. Personally I don't... I have Toronto and possibly Edmonton but I've yet to see that.

Quote:
Farhan Lalji was on Team1040 and reported the Luongo to CHI rumour. He is a TSN reporter. Then, it was corroborated by Botchford, another TSN personality. If TSN is god to you, why are these TSN people being ignored? If Dreger is god to you, it's still 3 teams + a comment on the 4th, so you're still wrong. Get it?
Just because they bring a guy onto TSN Radio doesn't mean they're confirming what they said or stand by it. Botchford is a beat writer... Farhan Lalji isn't an insider but I've also yet to hear anything from him. I've heard Dreger confirm Luongo would waive for Chicago but since then no talk of trade talks.

Dreger isn't God but he's very reliable. Mackenzie, Lebrun etc. as well... they're almost always the first to report things and if not, they'll confirm it after it's been said. If none of them are reporting any of these things I have a hard time believing it.

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10-27-2012, 08:36 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
You might as well take Bozak plus the prospects or whatever keeps being offered.. at least you get pieces you can use
Luongo is also a usable piece.

I'd argue for the Canucks Luongo as a 1B goalie is more useful than Bozak+.

The difference in value for Luongo (for our team) goes up if the schedule becomes compressed.

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10-27-2012, 08:37 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Saying "a return to Florida makes sense" (actual Luongo quote) means he wants to play elsewhere. You don't say moving to another team makes sense without fully anticipating a move.

Just because he's not being an idiot about this and acting completely professional doesn't mean he doesn't a) want out and/or b) expect to be moved
That's a great point.

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10-27-2012, 08:38 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
That's not ripping... people took what he said and twisted it into him calling him fat and out of shape which. Dallas Eakins is praised by all who've been coached by him.

If that isn't ripping into the kid, I don't know what is. I would hate to think what happens when he actually rips into him... By the way, if it was nothing, why did the media pounce on it?


Quote:
Dreger has a full time job with TSN... this Botchford isn't even known outside of Vancouver.

Maybe TSN checked his credentials before they let him on the show?


Quote:
Sure.. if you take one team who can't afford his contract and another who was mentioned once as teams involved then sure. Personally I don't... I have Toronto and possibly Edmonton but I've yet to see that.

Glad we both see you are contradicting yourself.


Quote:
Just because they bring a guy onto TSN Radio doesn't mean they're confirming what they said or stand by it. Botchford is a beat writer... Farhan Lalji isn't an insider but I've also yet to hear anything from him. I've heard Dreger confirm Luongo would waive for Chicago but since then no talk of trade talks.

Dreger isn't God but he's very reliable. Mackenzie, Lebrun etc. as well... they're almost always the first to report things and if not, they'll confirm it after it's been said. If none of them are reporting any of these things I have a hard time believing it.


I know TSN is generally more reliable than other outlets, but that doesn't mean the others aren't as well. Why is it all or nothing? Do you think fans of teams other than TO think that Dreger has better insider knowledge about their team than the beat writers that make a living off of reporting on them?


I would take Kuzma's or Gallagher's insight (despite hating him) over anything coming from Dreger.


Mckenzie I'll give you... but then he's been wrong twice already on the Luongo front (soft deal/cap dump + TO not being interested). So I take his view on this with a grain of salt.

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10-27-2012, 08:40 PM
  #896
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Dreger has a full time job with TSN... this Botchford isn't even known outside of Vancouver.
Jason Botchford replaced Damien Cox Studs & Duds segment on That's Hockey after he left for Sportsnet. So had that not happened Botchford wouldn't have been on TSN.

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10-27-2012, 09:40 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Farhan Lalji was on Team1040 and reported the Luongo to CHI rumour. He is a TSN reporter. Then, it was corroborated by Botchford, another TSN personality. If TSN is god to you, why are these TSN people being ignored? If Dreger is god to you, it's still 3 teams + a comment on the 4th, so you're still wrong. Get it?
The main difference is Dreger, McKenzie & LeBrun are the main Hockey Insiders for TSN who give out all the rumours without any bias towards any of the NHL teams.

When Farhan Lalji or Jason Botchford reports for them it's just on the Canucks side of the story. You don't see TSN getting Leafs trade updates from Mark Masters or who ever might be covering the Leafs point of view.

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10-27-2012, 09:45 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
The main difference is Dreger, McKenzie & LeBrun are the main Hockey Insiders for TSN who give out all the rumours without any bias towards any of the NHL teams.

When Farhan Lalji or Jason Botchford reports for them it's just on the Canucks side of the story. You don't see TSN getting Leafs trade updates from Mark Masters or who ever might be covering the Leafs point of view.

Did you just say TSN is not biased towards the Leafs?


Do you know people call TSN the Toronto Sports Network as a joke?

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10-27-2012, 09:50 PM
  #899
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Did you just say TSN is not biased towards the Leafs?


Do you know people call TSN the Toronto Sports Network as a joke?
People like to be jealous that the most popular team gets the most attention but no they aren't. They haven't ranked the leafs to be in the playoffs in years and those 3 insiders are professional and objective

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10-27-2012, 09:55 PM
  #900
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Luongo is also a usable piece.

I'd argue for the Canucks Luongo as a 1B goalie is more useful than Bozak+.

The difference in value for Luongo (for our team) goes up if the schedule becomes compressed.
You're jumping in midway without considering the post I responded to.

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
If that isn't ripping into the kid, I don't know what is. I would hate to think what happens when he actually rips into him... By the way, if it was nothing, why did the media pounce on it?





Maybe TSN checked his credentials before they let him on the show?





Glad we both see you are contradicting yourself.






I know TSN is generally more reliable than other outlets, but that doesn't mean the others aren't as well. Why is it all or nothing? Do you think fans of teams other than TO think that Dreger has better insider knowledge about their team than the beat writers that make a living off of reporting on them?


I would take Kuzma's or Gallagher's insight (despite hating him) over anything coming from Dreger.


Mckenzie I'll give you... but then he's been wrong twice already on the Luongo front (soft deal/cap dump + TO not being interested). So I take his view on this with a grain of salt.
It's not ripping.. The media jumped because its Toronto.. This is what happens here.

So how did Damian cox, Steve Simmons, Doug Maclean etc. get their jobs?

I haven't contradicted myself once. You just continue to reach and grasp because you want to believe you'll get something far more then luongo is actually worth.

Dreger certainly does have more knowledge then beat writers. That's not to say a beat writer can't report the truth first but if it was in fact to truth those big 3 would confirm it.

Who the bloody hell is Kuzma or Gallagher? Again more isolated reporters...

As for Mackenzie you have to understand the difference between when he writes articles of his opinion and when he actual reports something

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