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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-24-2012, 02:12 AM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Just a bit of a different look,

as a Canucks fan lets say our current tandemwas Reimer/Scrivens and Toronto had Luongo on the market.

What would Vancouver fans trade for Luongo?

(lets assume Vans 1st rounder is somewhere between 10-20).
Obviously the Sedins and Kesler are off the table, and Kassian is probably in the untouchable territory.

So it comes down to likely
- a top 6 forward (Booth, Higgins, Hansen, Raymond)
- Nicklas Jensen
- Either a 1st or Tanev.

I would lookat that kind of package if we needed luongo.

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10-24-2012, 02:27 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Obviously the Sedins and Kesler are off the table, and Kassian is probably in the untouchable territory.
How the hell do we only have 3 (4) untouchables and the Leafs have this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Nazem Kadri
Matt Frattin
Tyler Biggs
Matt Finn
Morgan Rielly
Nikolai Kulemin
Joffrey Lupul
James van Riemsdyk
Jake Gardiner
Carl Gunnarsson
Dion Phaneuf

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Old
10-24-2012, 02:31 AM
  #153
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Assuming we didn't have Schneider, I'd say our untouchables are

Sedins
Kesler
Burrows
Bieksa
Hamhuis

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Old
10-24-2012, 02:33 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Just a bit of a different look,

as a Canucks fan lets say our current tandemwas Reimer/Scrivens and Toronto had Luongo on the market.

What would Vancouver fans trade for Luongo?

(lets assume Vans 1st rounder is somewhere between 10-20).

These kinds of trades usually have a pattern of 1st, good prospect and 1-2 roster player(s). For instance, Nash just received 1st, Dubinsky, Anisimov and Erixon. 2 roster NHL talents, a 1st and a good prospect.


The quality of NHL talent matters. If it's of a higher quality, perhaps less in futures would suffice. Since Nash _should_ garner more than Luongo, if you are close enough to that package without exceeding it, I think you find the deal.


So something like Booth, 1st (late), Gaunce is what I would do. Essentially, Anisimov (an NHL 2nd line C) ends up being the gap between Lu and someone like Nash.

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10-24-2012, 02:36 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
How the hell do we only have 3 (4) untouchables and the Leafs have this:
Well while I don't agree with that entire list it's because the Canucks are the stronger team but have a much weaker prospect pool.

Of actual NHL ready current roster players i'd say our untouchables are:

Kessel
Phaneuf
Gardiner
JVR(mainly because of potential and because he was just acquired)
Grabovski (I know I know, but he has much more value to us then other teams, is our best C, and we just resigned him long term which is why he's on the list.

Thats 5 players as well. When you factor in prospects the list obviously grows. If Lupul resigns he'll instantly join that list, upcoming UFA or not I wouldn't trade him for Luongo.

Then there is the don't wanna trade but would in the right deal players:

Kulemin, Kadri, Gunnarsson, Frattin, Bozak

And the available:

Connolly, MacArthur, Lombardi, Komisarek, Franson


Last edited by frankthetank91: 10-24-2012 at 02:42 AM.
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Old
10-24-2012, 02:41 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
How the hell do we only have 3 (4) untouchables and the Leafs have this:
Obviously, they're a better team than we are.

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10-24-2012, 02:44 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Then there is the don't wanna trade but would in the right deal players:

Kulemin, Kadri, Gunnarsson, Frattin, Bozak

And the available:

Connolly, MacArthur, Lombardi, Komisarek, Franson
So in Canucks terms...

Don't want to tread, but would in the right deal:
Higgins, Schroeder, Tanev, Mallet, Lappiere

And the availabe:

Malhotra, Ballard, Alberts

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10-24-2012, 03:02 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I still can't figure out why it is assumed that Luongo is worth 4 young pieces. Those saying "thats what Nash got" seem to forget that CBJ also added a D-man and a pick in that deal.
Columbus added an ECHL d-man and a 3rd round pick. I'd be fine with adding something like Rai and a late 2nd back to the Leafs in a deal.

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10-24-2012, 03:12 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
How the hell do we only have 3 (4) untouchables and the Leafs have this:
Canucks are clearly built the wrong way. Toronto model is the way to go. I daresay they might have more untouchables than Edmonton.

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10-24-2012, 03:16 AM
  #160
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These discussions are kind of irrelevant until we see what happens with the CBA regarding the long-term deals but also the ability to keep cap from traded contracts. The way that can function could make Luongo far more valuable.

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10-24-2012, 03:47 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Just a bit of a different look,

as a Canucks fan lets say our current tandemwas Reimer/Scrivens and Toronto had Luongo on the market.

What would Vancouver fans trade for Luongo?

(lets assume Vans 1st rounder is somewhere between 10-20).
Anyone except the Sedins (I would trade both Sedins if I could get an equal forward back along with Luongo).

The team would likely be a bubble team with Reimer in net instead of Luongo while a contender with Luongo instead of any one player.

Assuming we could do futures: Lack + Jensen + Tanev + 1st + 2nd + 3rd...we get a goalie that we need to contend and don't give up anything significant off the roster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
I'd take Higgins and Tanev out, and sub Booth in. Our RH side for our defense is pitiful even with Tanev.
You're more worried about the fact that you'd need to find a #3 RS d-men rather than a #1 goalie? That's ridiculous. I'd give either.

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10-24-2012, 04:12 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
Assuming we didn't have Schneider, I'd say our untouchables are

Sedins
Kesler
Burrows
Bieksa
Hamhuis
If we had Reimer/Scivens in this hypothetical scenario I sure as hell would trade Bieksa/Hamhuis/Burrows.

Do fans not remember what average goalies (Cloutier) play like? Imagine having a bottom 3 goalie.

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10-24-2012, 04:43 AM
  #163
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If a deal goes down with TO, I can't see how the NHL pieces coming back aren't Bozak and Frattin. They make too much sense to be excluded. Exact needs are filled by them.


It's the additional stuff that is throwing off this discussion. The 1st, Gardiner, Finn, Kadri whatever... These are the key sticking points in any potential deal, not the more NHL established pieces coming back. Those pieces seem obvious.

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10-24-2012, 05:24 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
How the hell do we only have 3 (4) untouchables and the Leafs have this:
Well, look at the teams situations here. The Canucks are in win-now mode and outside of their core, they could afford to deal players and still be a contender. The Leafs, despite popular belief, are/were a rebuilding team who stocked up on youngsters and prospects and we'd like to keep them to see who pans out. Dealing away several prospects for a goalie in his 30's would be foolish given that in reality, we really don't know how many years a 33 year old goaltender would be good for. We are a Luongo away from the playoffs, not a Luongo away from a stanley cup. A team like the Oilers would be in a similar position where their list of guys they don't wanna trade would be long, given the realistic viewpoint that they aren't a 33 year old Luongo away from a cup either. I'd be extremely cautious if I were the GM of a rebuilding team getting an older goalie. Edmonton and Toronto have been the two youngest teams in the league for a few years now.

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Old
10-24-2012, 05:27 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
If we had Reimer/Scivens in this hypothetical scenario I sure as hell would trade Bieksa/Hamhuis/Burrows.

Do fans not remember what average goalies (Cloutier) play like? Imagine having a bottom 3 goalie.
Preaching to the choir here. Andrew Raycroft and Vesa Toskalol. You could have 6 Norris winners on your team and Vesa would still surrender a goal on a 200 foot shot.

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10-24-2012, 05:32 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
If a deal goes down with TO, I can't see how the NHL pieces coming back aren't Bozak and Frattin. They make too much sense to be excluded. Exact needs are filled by them.


It's the additional stuff that is throwing off this discussion. The 1st, Gardiner, Finn, Kadri whatever... These are the key sticking points in any potential deal, not the more NHL established pieces coming back. Those pieces seem obvious.
I've always been a huge fan of Frattins. Definitely a prospect who was looked over(he had trouble in college in case you didn't know). He can skate,has an absolute rocket of a shot and despite being a pretty average sized guy, rocks people. It was funny seeing him last year, regular NHLers would take runs at him and look foolish after bouncing off him and going flying. Some of his NCAA hits were unreal, I'm surprised he didn't kill someone.

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10-24-2012, 05:47 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
I've always been a huge fan of Frattins. Definitely a prospect who was looked over(he had trouble in college in case you didn't know). He can skate,has an absolute rocket of a shot and despite being a pretty average sized guy, rocks people. It was funny seeing him last year, regular NHLers would take runs at him and look foolish after bouncing off him and going flying. Some of his NCAA hits were unreal, I'm surprised he didn't kill someone.

He doesn't seem average sized. Listed at 6 foot 200 pounds, Kind of like O'Reilly's size.


I'm not as high on him as you are, but I can see why Gillis would go after a player like this. He's been trying to supplement the right-shot RW depth for a while now because the team is weak there. Kulemin would better address that need, but he's obviously more valuable to the leafs, so Frattin seems ok as an alternative target.


Like I said, if a deal goes down between these teams, I expect Bozak and Frattin to be a part of the package. They address needs. Do you see it the same way?

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10-24-2012, 05:50 AM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
How the hell do we only have 3 (4) untouchables and the Leafs have this:
One team want to make a cup run, the other is looking at the future, Different kind of untouchable.

I really believe if Toronto is patient and wait until next summer, there will be more option to acquire a goalie.

I think Vancouver missed their window of opportunity to trade Luongo last summer, while other team was making a move for a goalie. Maybe the new right timing to trade Luongo will be next summer ? Many goalie could become UFA and probably change team.

Florida for example. once Theodore contract is up, acquiring Luongo make more sense.

So in the point of view of Vancouver fans, would it be acceptable to keep Luongo another year ? (of course a year long lockout will force this anyway!)


Last edited by palindrom: 10-24-2012 at 06:16 AM.
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10-24-2012, 05:56 AM
  #169
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What about Luongo straight up for Kiprusoff?

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10-24-2012, 05:57 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
He doesn't seem average sized. Listed at 6 foot 200 pounds, Kind of like O'Reilly's size.


I'm not as high on him as you are, but I can see why Gillis would go after a player like this. He's been trying to supplement the right-shot RW depth for a while now because the team is weak there. Kulemin would better address that need, but he's obviously more valuable to the leafs, so Frattin seems ok as an alternative target.


Like I said, if a deal goes down between these teams, I expect Bozak and Frattin to be a part of the package. They address needs. Do you see it the same way?
Yes but I mentioned before I still think there's a forgotten guy here in Brad Ross whom you may be familiar with. If Gillis wants to go for those Kassian types, Ross definitely fits the bill. He'll be one of those guys who will make the NHL regardless of how many points he puts up. Frattin is a pretty average size guy, 6 foot 200 lbs puts him what, an inch and maybe 10 lbs below average NHL size? somewhere in that ballpark?

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10-24-2012, 06:22 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Yes but I mentioned before I still think there's a forgotten guy here in Brad Ross whom you may be familiar with. If Gillis wants to go for those Kassian types, Ross definitely fits the bill. He'll be one of those guys who will make the NHL regardless of how many points he puts up. Frattin is a pretty average size guy, 6 foot 200 lbs puts him what, an inch and maybe 10 lbs below average NHL size? somewhere in that ballpark?

You could be right about size. It does seem average. I was more looking at Booth and him being a comparable at 6'0" and 212 lbs and people qualifying him as a PF.


I know that he had issues in college, but I'm not sure what?


Ross may very well be a target, but I'm more working off the rumoured asking price... Gillis sees something in Frattin. He's a mid 20's F that can contribute something now at the NHL level. Bozak is similar. These options make sense for a team looking to compete now as depth.

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10-24-2012, 06:35 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Obviously the Sedins and Kesler are off the table, and Kassian is probably in the untouchable territory.

So it comes down to likely
- a top 6 forward (Booth, Higgins, Hansen, Raymond)
- Nicklas Jensen
- Either a 1st or Tanev.

I would lookat that kind of package if we needed luongo.
That's about what I had in mind. I don't think we have an ideal player to trade ieDubinisky-type, while most of our better guys have NTCs. Hansen would be the closest . Jensen or Gaunce as a propect. Ubiquitous playoff level 1st. I'd also do 2 1sts and players.

Gaustad got a playoff level 1st.
Quincy got 1st.
rental Kablerle got Joe Colborne, a first-round draft pick, and a conditional pick

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10-24-2012, 06:58 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
You could be right about size. It does seem average. I was more looking at Booth and him being a comparable at 6'0" and 212 lbs and people qualifying him as a PF.


I know that he had issues in college, but I'm not sure what?


Ross may very well be a target, but I'm more working off the rumoured asking price... Gillis sees something in Frattin. He's a mid 20's F that can contribute something now at the NHL level. Bozak is similar. These options make sense for a team looking to compete now as depth.
Quote:
There was no easy way for Frattin to explain his two arrests in two months — the first for disorderly conduct, the second for drunken driving — or the loss of his athletic scholarship. Frattin had been kicked off the hockey team and sent home
In July 2009, the police arrested Frattin and his former teammate Joe Finley, now in the Washington Capitals system, for heaving a lawn mower, a kitchen table, dishes and cups from a garage into the street at 3 a.m. Frattin was fined $225 and received a 10-day suspended sentence.

The next month, Frattin was pulled over by the university police after he drove away from a teammate’s house. Frattin’s blood-alcohol level, according to the police, was 0.12, exceeding the state legal limit of 0.08. A jury found Frattin not guilty, but North Dakota Coach Dave Hakstol did not wait for the trial, dismissing Frattin the day after his arrest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/sp...anted=all&_r=0

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10-24-2012, 07:05 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
That's about what I had in mind. I don't think we have an ideal player to trade ieDubinisky-type, while most of our better guys have NTCs. Hansen would be the closest . Jensen or Gaunce as a propect. Ubiquitous playoff level 1st. I'd also do 2 1sts and players.

Gaustad got a playoff level 1st.
Quincy got 1st.
rental Kablerle got Joe Colborne, a first-round draft pick, and a conditional pick


The 1st round pick is often an inclusion in packages for good-excellent players. At the deadline, the price gets inflated to include medium-good players. It really is the most generally accepted currency.


It's Gardiner that would halt all talks. Not the 1st, despite the bad feelings about the Kessel trade. He's much, much better than a 1st round pick - he is the realized form of what a 1st could be if all goes well. Needless to say, I'm not surprised Burke balked when Gardiner was requested. I would do the same.

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10-24-2012, 07:15 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post

What an interesting character. Hmmm this might call into question some of the mental traits Gillis would be looking for. Perhaps Frattin doesn't make sense in that regard.


But hey, Kassian also had a bar altercation not too long ago, and that didn't deter Gillis. Maybe he feels Frattin learned from this experience?

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