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Ovi can't even light up the KHL, can we finally admit that he's past his prime?

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Old
11-20-2012, 04:51 PM
  #401
Darth Yoda
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Originally Posted by Miguel Sanchez View Post
In terms of goal-scoring? Yeah, probably. Malkin is a much better playmaker than Ovi is so he can rely on that, if need be
It's the way one scores the goals that matters. Ovi relied on top speed to come ahead, that he to the same extent cant do anymore at his age. Perhaps he has'nt trained well to able to better hold on to it, sprinters tend to peak quite young but can stay at their best a little longer due to training.

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11-20-2012, 04:55 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Ovechkin is carrying his team's offense on a very balanced, defensively minded team that has the best record in the KHL. Carry on fretting that he's not leading the league in scoring.
Again with the defensive systems. I will repeat: what your coach asks you to do in the defensive zone, whether you do it or not, does not make you skate slower with the puck on the rush. It hasn't made any other capitals slower, why would it only apply to one guy?

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11-20-2012, 04:57 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
You just quoted some stats from a league you clearly have no clue about, and even those stats pertained to a small sample of games. Ovechkin is the leading scorer and a captain on KHL's leading team, and you're somehow trying to use that to prove your point. I mean, in all honesty, whether Ovi is past his prime or not is a fair discussion, but you're disregarding arguments that say otherwise by trolling accusations or preemptive no-that's-the-wrong-answer statements, which I guess when stated definitively are a good tactic to make that position seem very unreasonable without any debate on why that should be so.

From what I've seen, I'm not saying he's not past his prime, but I'm also not saying that he is. At this point, I just don't think there's enough evidence to point in either of the directions. Some of his passes and assists have been amazing this year, and I haven't seen him make those in the NHL before. On the other hand, the highlight-reel goals are missing. Does that mean he's past his prime? Well, again, I don't know. He might never again have a 110-point season in the NHL, but he might contribute in other ways. I don't know that necessarily means he's past his prime, he might've just changed his game. And you can't just disregard the system argument, either, especially when you're talking about high numbers like those. Individual skill can only take you so far. But after a certain threshold is reached, things like that matter. I acknowledge the fact that he had a bad season by his standards last year, and that even in a different system he should be roughly a PPG player. But that doesn't mean he can't bounce back, and this year's stats aren't suggesting he won't, either.


as I'm sure has been said before...don't be so silly and rational...this isn't the place for well thought out logical objective analysis....please reformat your post into a one sentence wildly speculative post or one attacking one part of someone else's post

Thanks, and of course, as is conventional here, don't have a nice day

:-)


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-21-2012 at 02:19 AM. Reason: qep
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11-20-2012, 05:01 PM
  #404
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Richard Gynge has more goals than Ovi on the same team? That's sad

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11-20-2012, 05:06 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by gretskidoo View Post
Richard Gynge has more goals than Ovi on the same team? That's sad
He also has 7 points less in one game more. And why would it be sad he has more goals than Ovechkin? In 18 games, Ovechkin has 7 goals, Gynge has 8 in 19, and Malkin and Kovalchuk have 10 in 21 and 19, respectively. Damn, these really are statistically significant differences!

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11-20-2012, 05:22 PM
  #406
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Talk about being defensive.

Gynge is a horrible player.

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11-20-2012, 05:39 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by gretskidoo View Post
Gynge is a horrible player.
Oh OK, I guess I'll have to take your word for it, you seem to know what you're talking about. Bu how come he got a contract with the last year's champion and current leader in points in the KHL then? Did his dad hook him up or something?

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11-20-2012, 08:27 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Again with the defensive systems. I will repeat: what your coach asks you to do in the defensive zone, whether you do it or not, does not make you skate slower with the puck on the rush. It hasn't made any other capitals slower, why would it only apply to one guy?
Maybe you should compare the Caps Goal totals pre and post system change. Drastic difference.

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11-20-2012, 08:31 PM
  #409
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LMFAO at the desperate fanboys on the board. Ovechkin is still the best player in the world. He's playing more defensively, which is why his stats are lower than shallow offense only players like Kovalchuk and Malkin.

If Oveckin wanted to, he could stand by centre and wait for a pass from the defensive end aka float like he used to and destroy the KHL. But he is a great person and plays with more heart than anyone. Which is why he is sacrificing his stats by letting his team hog the puck so his team can win, preventing himself from turning over the puck.

Who else is as much of a class act as Ovechkin? Simply the best no matter how he plays. Amazing person he is, Malkin and Kovalchuk are terrible people. Can't wait till he comes back and gets 70 goals and shuts all lol Cindy Crosbaby fans.

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11-20-2012, 08:35 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Maybe you should compare the Caps Goal totals pre and post system change. Drastic difference.
Maybe you should explain to me how, exactly a defensive zone scheme affects neutral zone speed for one player and nobody else.

I've asked you this 4 times so far.

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11-20-2012, 08:41 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Maybe you should explain to me how, exactly a defensive zone scheme affects neutral zone speed for one player and nobody else.

I've asked you this 4 times so far.
You're asking me to explain how a defensive system slows play down more than a run and gun system?

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11-20-2012, 08:46 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
You're asking me to explain how a defensive system slows play down more than a run and gun system?
I'm asking you why it makes one player, and nobody else, slower through the neutral zone.

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11-20-2012, 08:47 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
You're asking me to explain how a defensive system slows play down more than a run and gun system?
so, what you're actually trying to say is that his own teams are sabotaging Ovi?

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:03 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I'm asking you why it makes one player, and nobody else, slower through the neutral zone.
Ovechkin is not slower but playing a defensive system leaves less opportunity to challenge defenseman one on one through open ice. Now it's likely there's 2 or 3 guys near him because the forwards aren't ready to take off as quickly through the defensive zone as they were in past years. I saw him play live and he was very explosive still.

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11-20-2012, 09:39 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
LMFAO at the desperate fanboys on the board. Ovechkin is still the best player in the world. He's playing more defensively, which is why his stats are lower than shallow offense only players like Kovalchuk and Malkin.

If Oveckin wanted to, he could stand by centre and wait for a pass from the defensive end aka float like he used to and destroy the KHL. But he is a great person and plays with more heart than anyone. Which is why he is sacrificing his stats by letting his team hog the puck so his team can win, preventing himself from turning over the puck.

Who else is as much of a class act as Ovechkin? Simply the best no matter how he plays. Amazing person he is, Malkin and Kovalchuk are terrible people. Can't wait till he comes back and gets 70 goals and shuts all lol Cindy Crosbaby fans.
Yeah, that's exactly what people, including me, giving Ovechkin the benefit of the doubt are saying. It's easy to ridicule a position that extreme, but it shows ignorance when no one actually has it. But carry on, you're the one who looks like a doofus in what some of us were hoping could be a rational discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I'm asking you why it makes one player, and nobody else, slower through the neutral zone.
How did you determine he's slower, though? If he was in the past season, it might've been his not being in as good of a shape as he was in what you call his prime years. I think that can be fixed, though. Anyways, we'll see how he fares when the NHL starts again.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:53 PM
  #416
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By the topic creators formula Evander Kane wont even be able to make an AHL team next year 1 goal in 12 games in the KHL is what 4th line ECHL player?

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:25 PM
  #417
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just cuz he aint puttin up the numbers he used to doesnt mean hes past his prime. just cuz he isnt putting up 55 goal seasons anymore and isnt lighting up the khl doesnt mean anything. give him a break.

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11-20-2012, 11:08 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Oh OK, I guess I'll have to take your word for it, you seem to know what you're talking about. Bu how come he got a contract with the last year's champion and current leader in points in the KHL then? Did his dad hook him up or something?
No, I've just watched him the last 4 seasons in Sweden. I'm sure you've managed to watch him play more than I have, though.

You should also stop being so defensive about Ovechkin, I never said he's past his prime or that he's doing bad. I just found it sad that a player like Gynge has managed to score more goals.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:15 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Yeah, that's exactly what people, including me, giving Ovechkin the benefit of the doubt are saying. It's easy to ridicule a position that extreme, but it shows ignorance when no one actually has it. But carry on, you're the one who looks like a doofus in what some of us were hoping could be a rational discussion.
Was obvious when I said Ovechkin only plays good when he floats by the blue line and teams player better when he doesn't have the puck so no turnovers, that I was bashing him.

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11-21-2012, 12:09 AM
  #420
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These boards never cease to entertain . A small sample of games can change the whole perception some guys here have on certain players. Ovechkin is NOT past his prime. He's IN his prime. You can't score 65 goals every season. The KHL is a different league. It takes time to adjust. He's still one of the best players in the world.

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11-21-2012, 12:11 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Hades View Post
These boards never cease to entertain . A small sample of games can change the whole perception some guys here have on certain players. Ovechkin is NOT past his prime. He's IN his prime. You can't score 65 goals every season. The KHL is a different league. It takes time to adjust. He's still one of the best players in the world.
Um, we're going on over 2 seasons now...how is that a small sample size?

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:49 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
Was obvious when I said Ovechkin only plays good when he floats by the blue line and teams player better when he doesn't have the puck so no turnovers, that I was bashing him.
What?

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11-21-2012, 01:00 AM
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hades View Post
These boards never cease to entertain . A small sample of games can change the whole perception some guys here have on certain players. Ovechkin is NOT past his prime. He's IN his prime. You can't score 65 goals every season. The KHL is a different league. It takes time to adjust. He's still one of the best players in the world.
He may be in his physical prime but unless he gets a huge attitude adjustment and loses the sulks he's never going to be the player he used to be.

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11-21-2012, 01:07 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by gretskidoo View Post
No, I've just watched him the last 4 seasons in Sweden. I'm sure you've managed to watch him play more than I have, though.
Yeah, alright, I obviously haven't, so that's a fair point, but I find it strange that in light of objective evidence saying otherwise you still stick to your stance of him being horrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gretskidoo View Post
You should also stop being so defensive about Ovechkin, I never said he's past his prime or that he's doing bad. I just found it sad that a player like Gynge has managed to score more goals.
I don't really care one way or another as far as Ovechkin is concerned. To me, he's still an excellent player that might or might not be past his prime. But what bothers me is when people use terrible logic to support their arguments, disregarding everything else that goes counter to them. Oh, and as far as Gynge is concerned, if you made a similar comment two days ago, you could've added that he's tied in goals with last year's Art Ross trophy winner. I don't think that was sad, either.

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11-21-2012, 01:36 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Hades View Post
These boards never cease to entertain . A small sample of games can change the whole perception some guys here have on certain players. Ovechkin is NOT past his prime. He's IN his prime. You can't score 65 goals every season. The KHL is a different league. It takes time to adjust. He's still one of the best players in the world.
It's still a weaker league then the NHL, the other top russian talents adjusted almost on the fly, Kovy, Malkin, Datsyuk are all significantly over a ppg. You're telling me the guy who's probably better then all of them when he was in his prime can't do the same?

He's not in his prime right now and it's been over a year and a half as a "small sample size"

you can't score 65 every year but the minimum for prime ovy was 50g, 100p, and he hasn't been close to that level of scoring for 2+ years.

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