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Ovi can't even light up the KHL, can we finally admit that he's past his prime?

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Old
11-22-2012, 09:47 AM
  #451
caps4cup
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Originally Posted by BCShark View Post
no more fire. he plays with too much emotion, he should play with more discipline like sid
Completely different players, styles, and people. Why don't you tell that to Shawn Thornton? He probably wouldn't have played in the NHL if he played more discipline.

And if anything Ovechkin has showed more discipline, and less attitude/aggressiveness since he got suspended 2 years back.

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11-22-2012, 11:08 AM
  #452
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Ovi's just not the same player. Is he trying a bit harder on the defensive side? Absolutely.

But the reality is that he's just not as good. He can't beat guys seamlessly like he used to. He doesn't shoot as well. Doesn't skate as fast or as explosively...

The point of this thread is to show how much Ovi has regressed in comparison to his prime self and in comparision to guys he used to compete against (The best players in the World. What used to be his competition). Now he's simply not in the conversation anymore.

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11-22-2012, 12:03 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by BCShark View Post
no more fire. he plays with too much emotion, he should play with more discipline like sid
It's the exact opposite. He should play with fire, fire that he lost somewhere and it's been quite evident.

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11-22-2012, 05:56 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
Ovechkin: 13GP 6G 8A 14PTS (On 1 of the best teams in the league)
Malkin: 13GP 5G 12A 17PTS (On a bubble Team)
Kovy: 11GP 7G 13A 20PTS +12
Radulov: 19Gp 8G 16A 24PTS

I'm not saying that Ovi sucks, I'm just saying that he's clearly a shadow of his former self. Prime Ovi would have about 11 goals right now.
And radulov would be an art ross winner in the NHL then?

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11-22-2012, 06:01 PM
  #455
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Imho Ovi has filled out too much and lost a step ...I admit to not seeing him this year but the last couple of NHL seasons he was playing at a heavy weight ... he is going to learn to play at that size though... see Jagr, Jaromir. Ovi is a smart guy .. he will adapt to being full grown.

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11-22-2012, 06:23 PM
  #456
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if you think players who sign elsewhere, during a work stoppage, for zero money in many instances, knowing they can be called back any time, play with the same intensity, then go ahead.

not saying they are slacking, but there is zero chance they are playing their hardest.
That msut be that NA-thinking. You always think there is only one league that matters in the world. If you think so, then go ahead!

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11-22-2012, 06:51 PM
  #457
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That msut be that NA-thinking. You always think there is only one league that matters in the world. If you think so, then go ahead!
It's not that the NHL is "the only league that matters in the world." It's THEIR league, the one they regularly play in, the one that dishes out their yearly salaries, the one they hope to achieve things in. It's fairly obvious that most NHL players would see their time in the KHL as a temporary distraction, because that's what it is.

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11-22-2012, 07:28 PM
  #458
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Not for the Russians

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11-22-2012, 08:17 PM
  #459
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Not for the Russians
Why, because it's their home country? If a Russian has a contract in the NHL, going to the K is still a temporary situation. Their careers are back in NA.

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11-22-2012, 09:05 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by hadrian View Post
It's not that the NHL is "the only league that matters in the world." It's THEIR league, the one they regularly play in, the one that dishes out their yearly salaries, the one they hope to achieve things in. It's fairly obvious that most NHL players would see their time in the KHL as a temporary distraction, because that's what it is.
Yeah, it's really easy to put forward that argument, because then you can just discredit the league entirely and avoid any comparison to the NHL as far as quality is concerned. But if that's your argument, perhaps - on the flip side - Radulov also went just to party in America and had no trouble staying just below a PPG pace, even in the playoffs. That argument is as valid as yours, since both of us are running on conjectures. You can also take a look at Semin. Everyone's saying he's lazy (in the NHL), so it must be true. By your account, he doesn't care about KHL either, since it's not his league. But his PPG pace is roughly the same for both the NHL and KHL. So what does that tell you?

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11-22-2012, 09:32 PM
  #461
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There's far too many people commenting that really don't know a thing about how hockey is actually played, let alone in foreign leagues. Not even worth voicing an opinion... Just gets drowned out by ignorance...

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11-22-2012, 09:32 PM
  #462
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You can also take a look at Semin. Everyone's saying he's lazy (in the NHL), so it must be true. By your account, he doesn't care about KHL either, since it's not his league. But his PPG pace is roughly the same for both the NHL and KHL. So what does that tell you?
That he's lazy and doesn't give a damn in BOTH leagues?

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11-23-2012, 03:26 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
You can also take a look at Semin. Everyone's saying he's lazy (in the NHL), so it must be true. By your account, he doesn't care about KHL either, since it's not his league. But his PPG pace is roughly the same for both the NHL and KHL. So what does that tell you?
He's constant in his laziness?

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11-23-2012, 04:31 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Boris Le Tigre View Post
Imho Ovi has filled out too much and lost a step ...I admit to not seeing him this year but the last couple of NHL seasons he was playing at a heavy weight ... he is going to learn to play at that size though... see Jagr, Jaromir. Ovi is a smart guy .. he will adapt to being full grown.
He's lost what seems like a lot of weight in the summer.

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11-23-2012, 09:16 AM
  #465
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Why, because it's their home country? If a Russian has a contract in the NHL, going to the K is still a temporary situation. Their careers are back in NA.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Believe it or not the world isn't NA. Their "careers" doesn't matter much when they have a chance to play at home. The NHL is a foreign, far awy league where they earn their money unless some Bettman orchestrates just another lockout. Why should they care more about the NHL than about playing in front of their countrymen?

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11-23-2012, 10:27 AM
  #466
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That's exactly what I'm talking about. Believe it or not the world isn't NA. Their "careers" doesn't matter much when they have a chance to play at home. The NHL is a foreign, far awy league where they earn their money unless some Bettman orchestrates just another lockout. Why should they care more about the NHL than about playing in front of their countrymen?
Because the NHL is the barometer for the worlds greatest hockey players to see how they stack up. Because being the best player in the NHL means you are the most dominate player in the world. Or because playing in the NHL means usually playing in front of full modern stadiums. Or because playing in the NHL is how their careers will be judged.

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11-23-2012, 10:30 AM
  #467
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Because the NHL is the barometer for the worlds greatest hockey players to see how they stack up. Because being the best player in the NHL means you are the most dominate player in the world. Or because playing in the NHL means usually playing in front of full modern stadiums. Or because playing in the NHL is how their careers will be judged.
Change "is" to "was", and "full ... stadiums" to "half full ... stadiums" and you're there.

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Old
11-23-2012, 12:15 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Believe it or not the world isn't NA. Their "careers" doesn't matter much when they have a chance to play at home. The NHL is a foreign, far awy league where they earn their money unless some Bettman orchestrates just another lockout. Why should they care more about the NHL than about playing in front of their countrymen?
If you'd like to compare the KHL to the NHL then that's a separate thing.

The point that NHL players, especially those with big$$$ contracts in the NHL, that are TEMPORARILY playing in other leagues while under a work stoppage, probably aren't giving 100% effort is one that's VERY LIKELY.

I doubt that Mikael Grabner, playin in Austria or Tavares/Streit is Switzerland are playing as hard as they would in the NHL.

What you're saying (and correct me if I've misunderstood) is that RUSSIAN players, playing in the KHL, are definitely trying their best because it's their HOME country. Correct?

So, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk are likely playing their hardest in the KHL - that I also question.

It's a different league, and it's an inferior league to the NHL, there's no hockey person of even average intelligence that will debate that. If you'd like to, please go ahead, there's no shortage of posters that will indulge you.

When I Randy Robitaille 15th in league scoring, and names like Brandon Bochenski on that list, several others, excuse me if I doubt the "quality" of that league compared to the NHL.

Players like Kovy, Datsyuk, Malkin can put up big numbers without giving their all, don't let the stats fool you. If these guys wanted to play in the KHL full time, they would. They'd probably make more money in the KHL than in the NHL anyway, so it's not for money.

I can why Radulov doesn't want to play in the NHL. His effort speaks for itself. He also wasn't trying his hardest in the NHL playoffs last year. Obvious.

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11-23-2012, 12:52 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
If you'd like to compare the KHL to the NHL then that's a separate thing.

The point that NHL players, especially those with big$$$ contracts in the NHL, that are TEMPORARILY playing in other leagues while under a work stoppage, probably aren't giving 100% effort is one that's VERY LIKELY.

I doubt that Mikael Grabner, playin in Austria or Tavares/Streit is Switzerland are playing as hard as they would in the NHL.

What you're saying (and correct me if I've misunderstood) is that RUSSIAN players, playing in the KHL, are definitely trying their best because it's their HOME country. Correct?

So, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk are likely playing their hardest in the KHL - that I also question.

It's a different league, and it's an inferior league to the NHL, there's no hockey person of even average intelligence that will debate that. If you'd like to, please go ahead, there's no shortage of posters that will indulge you.

When I Randy Robitaille 15th in league scoring, and names like Brandon Bochenski on that list, several others, excuse me if I doubt the "quality" of that league compared to the NHL.

Players like Kovy, Datsyuk, Malkin can put up big numbers without giving their all, don't let the stats fool you. If these guys wanted to play in the KHL full time, they would. They'd probably make more money in the KHL than in the NHL anyway, so it's not for money.

I can why Radulov doesn't want to play in the NHL. His effort speaks for itself. He also wasn't trying his hardest in the NHL playoffs last year. Obvious.
Have you interviewed the players? I can't see how you could possibly know any of this.

The fact that you say "inferior league" just tells everybody that you got the ol' smaller wiener complex.

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11-23-2012, 01:10 PM
  #470
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Redbull, so what is your argument for the NHLers who can't even make the KHL line up? Evander Kane and Rob Schremp come to mind. Joe Pavelski's statistic is not the greatest either... Before you go and say that those players do not try their best, you mght want to consider that the hockey style is completely different in Europe. That big body-stone-hand-NHLer would have a hard time adjusting to the bigger ice surface. You are correct, the NHL (when active) is the best league in the world, but we might disagree on the reasons for that. Rich history, great arenas, TV coverage, world superstars, and large fan bases are all the factors what make the NHL great in my eyes. However, I bet that if you replace 60% of the NHLers with KHLers, nobody will see the differences in the quality of play. Flame on


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11-23-2012, 01:12 PM
  #471
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So what is your argument for the NHLers who can't even make the KHL line up? Evander Kane and Rob Schremp come to mind. Joe Pavelski's statistic is not the greatest either... Before you go and say that those players do not try their best, you mght want to consider that the hockey style is completely different in Europe. That big body-stone-heand-NHLer would have a hard time adjusting to the bigger ice surface. You are correct, the NHL (when active) is the best league in the world, but we might disagree on the reasons for that. Rich history, great arenas, TV coverage, world superstars, and large fan bases are all the factors what make the NHL great in my eyes. However, I bet that if you replace 60% of the NHLers with KHLers, nobody will see the differences in the quality of play. Flame on
KHL is not as bad as everyone likes to pretend. While it's not quite a European soccer league situation where the typical player is roughly equal and they just play in their home country it's not an NBA vs. European Leagues situation either where the quality is vastly different. The meat and potatoes guys in the KHL are about as good as the same in the NHL. The NHL definitely has the superstars though. But I think people overrate 3rd/4th line NHL players.

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11-23-2012, 01:31 PM
  #472
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Redbull, so what is your argument for the NHLers who can't even make the KHL line up? Evander Kane and Rob Schremp come to mind. Joe Pavelski's statistic is not the greatest either... Before you go and say that those players do not try their best, you mght want to consider that the hockey style is completely different in Europe. That big body-stone-hand-NHLer would have a hard time adjusting to the bigger ice surface. You are correct, the NHL (when active) is the best league in the world, but we might disagree on the reasons for that. Rich history, great arenas, TV coverage, world superstars, and large fan bases are all the factors what make the NHL great in my eyes. However, I bet that if you replace 60% of the NHLers with KHLers, nobody will see the differences in the quality of play. Flame on
I actually agree with you 100%.

Not sure about the 60% number, but there are definitely players in the KHL that are interchangeable with the NHL. And most certainly playing styles are different and some players adapt better than others.

I remember Doug Gilmour had a tough time playing in Europe and Ken Yaremchuk (who never made the NHL but was a star in Europe) saying that Gilmour was too slow for that league, etc.

I haven't seen ENOUGH KHL games or SEL, AHL games to be an expert - but probably seen enough to be pretty confident that the NHL is the best league, by a fair margin.

I don't know about the SEL or KHL as the next best, I could see either one.

And I'd see the AHL as the next highest - with a lot of other hockey leagues very close.

But to be clear, the top of the top are what makes for a great league. Those 4-6 elite players on NHL teams.

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11-23-2012, 01:51 PM
  #473
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11-23-2012, 02:05 PM
  #474
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He's lost what seems like a lot of weight in the summer.
Here's a photo that was circulating around August or so. Definitely thinner than the previous two/three years.



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Ovie and Backstrom both looking good in the second video.

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11-23-2012, 03:20 PM
  #475
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a couple of things. khl hockey is big sheet euro hockey. right? there are going to be solid nhl players like perhaps kane that cant translate their game to the euro style.

i think its also fair to suggest that top nhl players are not playing the same intense game that they do in the nhl. we already know that they play a different game in the stanley cup playoffs than in the nhl regular season. these games in the khl or other euro leagues are very likely being played closer to nhl preseason levels than nhl regular season levels.

that means there are players in these games that have something to proves. marginal players are trying to earn a shot at something in the nhl while the established nhl player is very likely NOT giving away any secrets in games that dont count for them.

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