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Ovi can't even light up the KHL, can we finally admit that he's past his prime?

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:21 AM
  #151
NewFang
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
750 players in the NHL, FOUR scored more goals than he did last year while he's learning to be a better all around player. Yeah the guys totally sucks hey
I never said he sucks. But he's not his old self and he's not worth the money he gets given his current production.

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:45 AM
  #152
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I never said he sucks. But he's not his old self and he's not worth the money he gets given his current production.
This +1. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Ovi is a shell of his former self.

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10-26-2012, 10:59 AM
  #153
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He was the top forward in the game whereas he is a first liner at best now. Either everyone has his moves figured out either he was doping.

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10-26-2012, 12:03 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
I have, and I was not impressed (If I compare him to his prime self). He looks slow and heavy out there. Prime Ovi was a beast. he was one of the most amazing and gifted physical specimens the NHL had ever seen. How many guys of that size could move like this? Had that lethal combination of power, strength, speed and explosiveness?

You guys make it seem as if I said that Ovi sucks. My statement that he's past his prime.

A past his prime Lemieux was still a dangerous player. Same with a past his prime Gretzky (we can name a bunch of superstars in the same boat). Ovi might not be as effective out of his prime, because he doesn't have the hockey I.Q and vision of these guys.

The bottom line is that Ovi is simply not even close to being in the conversations for the best player in the world anymore. He will most likely never score 60 goals again. He might have the odd resurgence season but because he no longer has all of his tool and can't seem to adjust, he'll never be as effective as he once was.

I agree the odds are against Ovi scoring 60+ goals might be behind him but using his KHL stats as proof of that arent valid in my point of view. I'll take your word you've seen him play in Dynamo so you should know Dynamo plays a very defensive minded game limiting breakout with backchecking and not pushing up ice with breakout passing but more of dump and chase grind it out team. So Ovi's teammates who have been playing this play style for Dynamo really arent that skilled at all minus Backstrom of course. Look at the stats no other player is close ppg on the team for a reason its because Dynamo plays a very tight defensive oriented game.

Im not disagreeing with you that Ovi's goal scoring production wont reach his historically good numbers but I could see him scoring 50 again. Its just based off his KHL play I dont think thats good evidence

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Old
10-26-2012, 05:27 PM
  #155
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as if the KHL is an easy league to get points in?

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Old
10-26-2012, 10:55 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
A true elite player does not need others to make him look good. Hes the one whos supposed to make others look good.
As if he doesn't? He's leading the #1 team in the league in scoring by a fair margin playing the least games of them.

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10-26-2012, 11:11 PM
  #157
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He still has supreme skill level, so no, most certainly not. The problem is that he's so predictable, even a person with Alzheimer's can remember how he'll attack on offense.

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10-26-2012, 11:13 PM
  #158
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Ovi stanks.

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:34 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
750 players in the NHL, FOUR scored more goals than he did last year while he's learning to be a better all around player. Yeah the guys totally sucks hey
Interesting way to look at it.

So "past his prime" Ovy is still a top 5 goal scorer. Not too shabby.

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10-27-2012, 02:19 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Interesting way to look at it.

So "past his prime" Ovy is still a top 5 goal scorer. Not too shabby.
Yea I find it funny and clueless when I read things like...

"Hey he's not scoring 50+ goals a season, he's just not good anymore."

What exactly IS the cut off for great player?

Is it under 60, 50, 40 goals? Is it just goals? What if a player got 70 assists and 30 goals? He's not a great player?

Freakin weird benchmarks by some weird minds of what is elite, great, very good etc....

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10-27-2012, 04:05 AM
  #161
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Washed up? No. Kovalev v2.1... Maybe

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Old
10-27-2012, 04:24 AM
  #162
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He's making a mockery of the sport!

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10-27-2012, 04:56 AM
  #163
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He's making a mockery of the sport!
How ?

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10-27-2012, 05:04 AM
  #164
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How ?
He stank

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10-27-2012, 05:12 AM
  #165
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I wish the NHL had contracts like the NFL, you think OV would be getting the money he is getting paid for the production he has been putting up. It's funny how some of these players play great, get a big long deal, then look like half the player they were before the big money came.

I don't think OV has lost any skill or is having any conditioning problems like some people say, I just think he is going through the motions and has very little motivation.

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10-27-2012, 06:03 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
I never said he sucks. But he's not his old self and he's not worth the money he gets given his current production.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
This +1. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Ovi is a shell of his former self.
Probably because you guys are dramatizing it by saying things like 'he's a shell of his former self'.

If you were to just say 'he won't hit 60 again', 99% of HF would agree with you.

The reality is, Ovechkin's been put under a microscope on a team that's tried to radically reinvent itself without radically changing the roster. As a coach, you shouldn't try to teach a guy like Ovechkin how to play hockey. You should build a system that complements his strengths. Did anybody honestly think Boudreau taking a Caps roster built around offense and turning it into a defensive team would be an easy transition that wouldn't impact Ovechkin's production at all? Likewise, as a GM, you don't build a team that's based around a superstar offensive talent, and try to get your coach to overemphasize defensive play.

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10-27-2012, 06:25 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
750 players in the NHL, FOUR scored more goals than he did last year while he's learning to be a better all around player. Yeah the guys totally sucks hey
And how many of those players do get more money than Ovi? Yeah, zero.

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10-27-2012, 07:12 AM
  #168
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I hope he talks his way out of Washington, like Thomas has done with boston. Then they'll take Luongo and Edler for him?

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10-27-2012, 07:34 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
And how many of those players do get more money than Ovi? Yeah, zero.
How many players got 600 points, 2 Hart trophies, 3 pearson/lindsays,a 65 goal season and were touted as possibly the most exciting player on the planet in the last 6 seasons?

I love how people act like one day Ted Leonsis(who IS a bit of a buffoon, but that's beside the point) woke up and said "I have a totally mediocre player. I think I'll give him any contract he asks for" There's a reason Ovechklin was given that contract, it's that for 5 years(ok, in all fairness at the time of the contract it was three) he was blindingly amazing. For two years he's dropped off a bit, meaning one season he only came in at just over a PPG, and last season he dropped just below a PPG. At any rate, the Caps started selling out since he came and sold a ton of team merchandise because of him.

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Old
10-27-2012, 07:40 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
And how many of those players do get more money than Ovi? Yeah, zero.
And what the hell does money have to do with ability? Before last year none of Gaborik, Stamkos or Neal had ever scored 60+ goals in a season or won a Hart, Art Ross, Calder or a Ted Lindsay. OV earned that contract with his play in the first three years of his NHL career.

Do you realize that Stamkos is only the 16th player EVER to score 60+ goals in a season. Ovechkin is also one of those players! It is so incredibly difficult to score 50 goals a year in the league let alone 60. If OV scores around 40 goals a year for another four years, he'll have one of the better careers in the history of the game!

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10-27-2012, 07:44 AM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
I never said he sucks. But he's not his old self and he's not worth the money he gets given his current production.
Just throwing it out there, absolutely no comfirmation one way or another but anyone think that Ovi is plain burnt out??? He burst onto the scene as a teenager, played lights out, dynamic hockey for his early years in the NHL??

Just asking, not saying one way or another, haven`t watched one minute of KHL hockey nor will I but in the last 2 seasons specifically in the NHL, in the many games I have watched him play (I`m a Bruin fan but loved watching him play), I have noticed tremendously long stretches where he appears dissinterested, just because a guy skates fast, doesn`t mean he`s hustling??

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Old
10-27-2012, 08:29 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Yea I find it funny and clueless when I read things like...

"Hey he's not scoring 50+ goals a season, he's just not good anymore."

What exactly IS the cut off for great player?

Is it under 60, 50, 40 goals? Is it just goals? What if a player got 70 assists and 30 goals? He's not a great player?

Freakin weird benchmarks by some weird minds of what is elite, great, very good etc....
You're talking about a player that was unreal though. Above and beyond every other guys outthere. Then boom one day he became just one of many good players.

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10-27-2012, 08:43 AM
  #173
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Players are signing these mega-deals at ~30 because the NHL salary structure is setup that way.
I'm talking about guys like Luongo who at 30 signed these big 10 years deals. The perception is that guys have a lot more to give when they are 30 than guys from other generations. I remember once Lafleur hit 30, he was considered old and he declined dramatically from then on.

Quote:
If there was ever a player that proves that the new proposed 5 year ELC is a bad idea, it's Ovie.

Let's imagaine the 5 year ELC has been around since last lockout and apply it to Ovie.

2005-06 GP-82 G-52 A-54 P-106 Salary-$850,000+Bonuses
2006-07 GP-82 G-46 A-46 P-92 Salary-$850,000+Bonuses
2007-08 GP-82 G-65 A-47 P-112 Salary-$850,000+Bonuses
2008-09 GP-79 G-56 A-54 P-110 Salary-$850,000+Bonuses
2009-10 GP-72 G-50 A-59 P-109 Salary-$850,000+Bonuses
2010-11 GP-79 G-32 A-53 P-85 Salary-$$9,538,462 (current cap hit)
2011-12 GP-78 G-38 A-27 P-65 Salary-$9,538,462 (current cap hit)

This doesn't even account for inflation or the Hart, Rocket, and two 1st-Team All-star selections Ovie accomplished after signing that huge deal.
This could be counter-balanced by the fact that the rookie contract would be reduced to 2 years under the owners proposal. So even if the guy is restricted after 2 years, he could get 5 mill easy. Esp. if guys like the Flyers are "sharking" around.

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Old
10-27-2012, 09:55 AM
  #174
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If any of you want perspective on why Ovechkin has struggled the last couple seasons, play as the Caps in NHL and change their attack strategy to defend lead or conservative. It's a lot harder to score goals and get Ovechkin involved, yet if you put it on aggressive or full attack you'll create a million chances with Ovechkin.

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10-27-2012, 01:11 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
And how many of those players do get more money than Ovi? Yeah, zero.
So there is four guys that were with better contracts than OV last year?

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