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Luongo Thread - Waiting on the World to Change (Mod Warning in OP)

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10-30-2012, 03:38 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
This. People need to stop taking Burrows off that line. Canucks need to improve the 2nd line, not the 1st.
I'm not sure I agree with this. If you look around the league, most teams have their 4 best forwards spread out on 2 lines. Part of the problem with our 2nd line is that we have 3 of our 4 best forwards on the 1st imo.

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10-30-2012, 03:48 PM
  #302
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I don't think that's fair. I give Luongo credit for all the good things but choose not to ignore his faults.
In Pauser's mind Luongo can do no harm.

I hate that help emoticon, seems like something people use when they're having trouble making their point.
I disagree.

Lately it seems you like to throw barbs about Luongo into all your posts.

Pretty sure Luongo claiming he'd be willing to waive his NTC took pressure of the management, but in your opinion that's taking the easy way out.

I think your stance is funny. Luongo makes claim in the media, to you that means he didn't discuss it with management. It's speculation either way, but I find it funny you always look to lay the blame at Roberto's feet.

I understand that you didn't like Luongo making the statement he did in the media, but really did it make a huge difference? You'd have to be a fool to not think he wouldn't enjoy playing 2nd fiddle, right?

Stating that he'd be willing to waive to help the team is pretty selfless IMO, I don't see how you think that shows he isn't and Schneider is.

Let's just be real here...both goalies want to start, both goalies would probably prefer to stay the starter in Vancouver, but you better believe BOTH goalies would be fine being the #1 just about anywhere....Cory probably moreso than Roberto.

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10-30-2012, 03:52 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I know I will get ripped for this, but I would not do that deal. What's worth more? A one dimensional scorer or a legit starter in his prime. What helps you win more games?


Last year, Kessel lit the league on fire, but what was the gripe? Goaltending. The Leafs then proceeded to draft 5th overall...


Let's not even get into the playoffs where we have seen that the first type of player to get cancelled out is the pure skill player. Bigger, stronger, better board work, more pressure on opposing Ds down low, that's how you win games in the post-season. This is going backwards.
How many one-shot scorers does this team have though? Maybe Burrows after the Sedins make 3 brilliant passes. He has his cons, but he brings a lot of diversity in terms of play. Besides if Kessel is already breaking down a wing 50 or 60 feet ahead of the Sedins, there is no one in the league I trust more in the league that the puck will land perfectly on Kessel's stick than Henrik or Daniel.

And really we have two legit #1 starters still very good though one much older but much more battle-tested. Besides only three parties know if Luo really wants out from Vancouver: Gillis & Co., Luongo & Lupien, and his family and friends. And if pure skill is cancelled out in the playoffs, why do players like Krejci, Kopitar, Toews, and Malkin lead the last 4 playoffs in scoring?

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Originally Posted by Edler Von Gud View Post
not sure how that marriage would work either. Kessel likes to play off the rush and isn't responsible defensively like Burrows is. Sedins like to play a tactical cycle style that requires a third member of their line to be a strong forechecker and puck retriever. Kessel is a good goal scorer, but not sure if he would be a good compliment to the Sedins or Kesler. We need a Burrows with better finishing ability for the Sedins, and a Booth with better passing....that can pass on the 2nd line.

If we could flip Kessel for Perry sign me up.
True that line might get eaten up offensively at times, but they'd score a hell of a lot as well. It's not like you can't teach Kessel how to be responsible defensively though. Players like Kessel that can score and skate aren't exactly a dime a dozen. As for Booth with better passing, wait 2 or 3 years. We already acquired a player like this.

I'm not sure about trading Kessel for Perry though, he's got one year left on his contract and doesn't exactly like the Canucks.

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10-30-2012, 03:59 PM
  #304
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I think your stance is funny. Luongo makes claim in the media, to you that means he didn't discuss it with management. It's speculation either way, but I find it funny you always look to lay the blame at Roberto's feet.
Whether or not he talked to management first is irrelevant imo, I think we can all agree that coming out to the media was not in the teams best interest. It backed management and Luongo into a corner.

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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I understand that you didn't like Luongo making the statement he did in the media, but really did it make a huge difference? You'd have to be a fool to not think he wouldn't enjoy playing 2nd fiddle, right?
Then come back and earn your job back.

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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Stating that he'd be willing to waive to help the team is pretty selfless IMO, I don't see how you think that shows he isn't and Schneider is.
Schneider did and said all the right things, Luongo didn't. The reason we never had a real controversy earlier was that Schneider handled it so well. When the shoe was on the other foot, Luongo didn't.

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Let's just be real here...both goalies want to start, both goalies would probably prefer to stay the starter in Vancouver
You lost me here. Lu has a NTC, the boss has said he will not ask anyone to waive. If he wanted to be here, he could be. If he's leaving because he got his feelings hurt or he doesn't think he can earn the job, we don't need that here anyway.

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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Lately it seems you like to throw barbs about Luongo into all your posts.
This is the Luongo thread, I'm commenting on Luongo. I do not feel like everything said in here needs to be about pumping his tires.

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10-30-2012, 04:04 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I don't think that's fair. I give Luongo credit for all the good things but choose not to ignore his faults.
In Pauser's mind Luongo can do no harm.

I hate that help emoticon, seems like something people use when they're having trouble making their point.
I don't think that's fair. I give Luongo heat for all the bad things that he should be blamed for, but choose not to understate the good things.
In your mind Luongo can do no right.

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10-30-2012, 04:07 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I don't think that's fair. I give Luongo heat for all the bad things that he should be blamed for, but choose not to understate the good things.
In your mind Luongo can do no right.
I can go around this site right now and find 100 posts where I say positive things about Luongo, can you find any where you've been critical?

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10-30-2012, 04:17 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this. If you look around the league, most teams have their 4 best forwards spread out on 2 lines. Part of the problem with our 2nd line is that we have 3 of our 4 best forwards on the 1st imo.
Burrows is not a good fit with Kesler, unless that line is a checking line. He's a perfect fit with the Sedins.

If they were to ever get Kessel, he may not be a playmaker or the best fit, but his passing is pretty good, and at the very least it would bring more offense to that line than Burrows would.

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10-30-2012, 04:18 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I can go around this site right now and find 100 posts where I say positive things about Luongo, can you find any where you've been critical?
Several. You just choose to ignore that for some reason. I just don't scapegoat him for the failures of the team in front of him, like some people enjoy doing.

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10-30-2012, 04:22 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
Burrows is not a good fit with Kesler, unless that line is a checking line. He's a perfect fit with the Sedins.
Burrows is a way better player now than when he was playing with Kesler.

The perfect fit with the twins is someone that can look after them a little and make some room for them when the checking gets stifling in the playoffs.

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10-30-2012, 04:23 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
You just choose to ignore that for some reason.
OK, I'll look for that in the future. You don't have to look hard for the positive things I have to say about Roberto.

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10-30-2012, 04:28 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
Burrows is not a good fit with Kesler, unless that line is a checking line. He's a perfect fit with the Sedins.
worked well in game 6 and 7 of the Hawks series when we needed them the most.

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10-30-2012, 04:41 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
How many one-shot scorers does this team have though? Maybe Burrows after the Sedins make 3 brilliant passes. He has his cons, but he brings a lot of diversity in terms of play. Besides if Kessel is already breaking down a wing 50 or 60 feet ahead of the Sedins, there is no one in the league I trust more in the league that the puck will land perfectly on Kessel's stick than Henrik or Daniel.

And really we have two legit #1 starters still very good though one much older but much more battle-tested. Besides only three parties know if Luo really wants out from Vancouver: Gillis & Co., Luongo & Lupien, and his family and friends. And if pure skill is cancelled out in the playoffs, why do players like Krejci, Kopitar, Toews, and Malkin lead the last 4 playoffs in scoring?


None of the players you mentioned are skill-only players. Even Krejci has more size, and brings more edge to the game than Kessel.


You are right though, this team lacks a pure sniper. However, it makes no sense to trade a key building block to correct that aesthetic. It's still one of the highest scoring teams in the league.


It just makes no sense to me to remove Schneider off this roster now. Especially since the team has clearly chosen him to carry the ball. In contrast, Kessel represents the type of player the team is moving away from, not moving toward.

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10-30-2012, 04:50 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
None of the players you mentioned are skill-only players. Even Krejci has more size, and brings more edge to the game than Kessel.


You are right though, this team lacks a pure sniper. However, it makes no sense to trade a key building block to correct that aesthetic. It's still one of the highest scoring teams in the league.


It just makes no sense to me to remove Schneider off this roster now. Especially since the team has clearly chosen him to carry the ball. In contrast, Kessel represents the type of player the team is moving away from, not moving toward.
Pure skill players are such a subjective term in my opinion. What is your definition?

To me highest scoring teams in the league in the regular season don't mean much to me when we've scored 16 goals in our last playoff games and had a 2.32 GPG in the 2011 run altogether.

I concede that Kessel isn't exactly the most ideal target. But to be honest, I'd rather get Kessel trading one of our Vezina-caliber goalies than maybe Kulemin and Gunnarsson.

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10-30-2012, 04:53 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I don't think that's fair. I give Luongo credit for all the good things but choose not to ignore his faults.
In Pauser's mind Luongo can do no harm.

I hate that help emoticon, seems like something people use when they're having trouble making their point.
Sorry I didn't elaborate on your little snide comment about Luongo?

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10-30-2012, 05:33 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Whether or not he talked to management first is irrelevant imo, I think we can all agree that coming out to the media was not in the teams best interest. It backed management and Luongo into a corner.



Then come back and earn your job back.



Schneider did and said all the right things, Luongo didn't. The reason we never had a real controversy earlier was that Schneider handled it so well. When the shoe was on the other foot, Luongo didn't.



You lost me here. Lu has a NTC, the boss has said he will not ask anyone to waive. If he wanted to be here, he could be. If he's leaving because he got his feelings hurt or he doesn't think he can earn the job, we don't need that here anyway.



This is the Luongo thread, I'm commenting on Luongo. I do not feel like everything said in here needs to be about pumping his tires.
I just think you're talking out of your ass now.

Gillis has to ask LUongo's permission on any trade, even if he wants out. So say what you want, but you're acting as if Gillis didn't approach Luongo at all.

I feel Gillis has his plan, approached Luongo about less playing time and sharing time with Schneider, he basically outlined the lack of position for Luongo. While not asking straight up he basically put the option out there. If you can't see that as a possible scenario, and IMO the likely scenario, than I don't know what to say.

To portray Luongo as the 'bad guy' and a problem child and not acting in the teams best interest I think you're wrong.

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10-30-2012, 05:35 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I feel Gillis has his plan, approached Luongo about less playing time and sharing time with Schneider, he basically outlined the lack of position for Luongo. While not asking straight up he basically put the option out there. If you can't see that as a possible scenario, and IMO the likely scenario, than I don't know what to say.
This is a huge reach, I haven't heard anything like this anywhere else.

When would Gillis have said this? Going into the playoffs? Less than a day after we were eliminated? Would Schneider have signed a contract if Gillis had let them know this was his intention?

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10-30-2012, 05:38 PM
  #317
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This is a huge reach, I haven't heard anything like this anywhere else.

When would Gillis have said this? Going into the playoffs? Less than a day after we were eliminated? Would Schneider have signed a contract if Gillis had let them know this was his intention?
Nothing you've said is a reach?

Again, I don't see how Luongo suggested he'd waive his NTC as being a negative towards the team in any way. He's gotta ok any deal anyway.

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10-30-2012, 05:39 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
This is a huge reach, I haven't heard anything like this anywhere else.

When would Gillis have said this? Going into the playoffs? Less than a day after we were eliminated? Would Schneider have signed a contract if Gillis had let them know this was his intention?
Around June/July when they talked directly last? Or perhaps to Luongo's agent prior to Luongo and Lupien having their discussion in August?

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10-30-2012, 05:42 PM
  #319
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This is a huge reach, I haven't heard anything like this anywhere else.
Because nobody in this conversation to date is an insider. It's awful hard to make such statements with confidence given we are only fans.

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10-30-2012, 05:52 PM
  #320
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Around June/July when they talked directly last? Or perhaps to Luongo's agent prior to Luongo and Lupien having their discussion in August?
Luongo came out with this as soon as the season ended, it would have had to have been before that, wouldn't it?

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Because nobody in this conversation to date is an insider. It's awful hard to make such statements with confidence given we are only fans.
There is a big difference between making assumptions based on what we know and taking huge leaps based on what we want to believe.

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10-30-2012, 05:54 PM
  #321
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Because nobody in this conversation to date is an insider. It's awful hard to make such statements with confidence given we are only fans.
Which makes me wonder why Luongo threads on the Main Board are consistently allowed to go on. No new info for the longest time, consistent speculation & people bringing up misconceptions that people end up thinking are really true.

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10-30-2012, 05:54 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
There is a big difference between making assumptions based on what we know and taking huge leaps based on what we want to believe.
What I know is that Roberto has said multiple times he'd like to be a starter somewhere and then he said that it's time to move on. To me, he's definitely done in Vancouver based on that. That is an opinion though, not fact.

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10-30-2012, 05:58 PM
  #323
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What I know is that Roberto has said multiple times he'd like to be a starter somewhere and then he said that it's time to move on. To me, he's definitely done in Vancouver based on that.
He also said he could see himself back, right?

Loves the city, fans, teammates....said that too, multiple times too!

But that makes him an awful leader, horrible teammate, and the reason we've never won a cup.

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10-30-2012, 06:02 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
He also said he could see himself back, right?

Loves the city, fans, teammates....said that too, multiple times too!

But that makes him an awful leader, horrible teammate, and the reason we've never won a cup.
Like I said, that's an opinion based on what I know. I am entitled to have that opinion, but it does not mean I should be waving it around as fact. That's all I'm saying. Some fans on other teams think differently.

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10-30-2012, 06:05 PM
  #325
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But that makes him an awful leader, horrible teammate, and the reason we've never won a cup.
My arguments tend not to be as polarized as your average HF poster.

Being emotional and riding the ups and downs makes you less than an ideal leader... not awful.

Airing your dirty laundry in the media is not in the best interest of the team (or Luongo, you'd think he'd have learned by now) but it doesn't make him a terrible teammate.

Luongo is a big reason we almost won a cup. He's also partially at fault for some of our playoff failures.

It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.


Last edited by Scurr: 10-30-2012 at 06:27 PM.
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