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Old
10-30-2012, 07:14 PM
  #326
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nvm.

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10-30-2012, 07:22 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Burrows is a way better player now than when he was playing with Kesler.

The perfect fit with the twins is someone that can look after them a little and make some room for them when the checking gets stifling in the playoffs.
Burrows Kesler worked fine. I don't have a big problem with reuniting those two BUT

1. Burrows is still a better fit the with Sedins than with Kesler.

2. We don't have a better fit with the Sedins to replace Burrows (not Kassian, not yet anyway)

3. Burrows+Kesler would be great if we had a 3rd piece of that puzzle. We don't. Booth-Kesler-Burrows looks good on paper when each player is taken individually but I question that lines chemistry. If not Booth, then who? Raymond? Hansen? Higgins? Jensen is unlikely to be ready.

The way I see whether we put Burrows on the second line or not the second line still needs a player we currently don't have. Sedin+Sedin+[one], [new player]+Kesler+[one]

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10-30-2012, 07:36 PM
  #328
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1. Burrows is still a better fit the with Sedins than with Kesler.
Maybe. We haven't really given Burrows and Kesler a chance since Burr took his game to another level.

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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
2. We don't have a better fit with the Sedins to replace Burrows (not Kassian, not yet anyway)
I don't think we've given it enough of a chance. Hansen and Lapierre both had nice runs with the twins (Lapierre might have had his chance with Daniel out?) I question how effective that line has been in the playoffs when teams collapse down low on the twins. Higgins and Booth offer up some more size that might help them be more effective, Kassian could make the leap. We don't really know, because we haven't really tried.

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3. Burrows+Kesler would be great if we had a 3rd piece of that puzzle. We don't. Booth-Kesler-Burrows looks good on paper when each player is taken individually but I question that lines chemistry. If not Booth, then who? Raymond? Hansen? Higgins? Jensen is unlikely to be ready.
IMO Higgins has shown more chemistry with Kesler than anyone else we've had. I'd play Higgins/Kesler/Burrows head to head with any line in the league.

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The way I see whether we put Burrows on the second line or not the second line still needs a player we currently don't have. Sedin+Sedin+[one], [new player]+Kesler+[one]
We have good players imo, we just need to find a way to make them fit.

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10-30-2012, 07:41 PM
  #329
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IMO Higgins has shown more chemistry with Kesler than anyone else we've had. I'd play Higgins/Kesler/Burrows head to head with any line in the league.
Absolutely agree here. Higgins-Kesler-Burrows is as good a two-way line option we have. The question is who rides shotgun with Hank and Danny? Hansen is the only real tested player we have with those two.

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10-30-2012, 07:53 PM
  #330
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Absolutely agree here. Higgins-Kesler-Burrows is as good a two-way line option we have. The question is who rides shotgun with Hank and Danny? Hansen is the only real tested player we have with those two.
I like putting Kassian there and riding it out. That'd force the twins to play defence rather than leaving it up to Burr and hopefully save some wear and tear on the twins during the regular season.

I also think Booth can work with some more experience on that line.

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10-30-2012, 07:59 PM
  #331
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Leafs fan just offered Kessel, Bozak, and Finn for Schneider, Jensen or Kassian, and Gaunce.

It would stink losing one of Kassian/Jensen, but I think I'd do it.

Sedins-Burrows
Booth Kesler-Kessel
Higgins-Bozak-Hansen
Raymond-Lapierre-Kassian/Jensen
Sorry no way. Schneider is going to be a Vezina trophy winner, doubtful Kessel ever wins anything. Jensen and Kassian give the Canucks everything they have been looking for in just a couple of years. A big tough body, and big talented winger. Gaunce is a flier, but could easily end up being a Kessel light, and is probably better than either Bozak or Finn in the long run. Finn - 35th overall .... doesn't project as high as Jensen, Kassian or Gaunce in my eyes. Bozak is what, 26 or something, and his last 3 seasons projected over an 82 game year is something like 17, 15 & 20 goals. This is a horrible trade. If the Canucks were gong to trade Schneider, he should have been the key piece in landing Rick Nash.

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Old
10-30-2012, 08:01 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I like putting Kassian there and riding it out. That'd force the twins to play defence rather than leaving it up to Burr and hopefully save some wear and tear on the twins during the regular season.

I also think Booth can work with some more experience on that line.
Yeah Booth and Kassian seemed like real possibilities, Booth especially cause I'm not sure how he would do on a checking line on a team that's supposed to win the Cup.

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10-30-2012, 08:05 PM
  #333
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and I still see the Canucks this year with:

Sedins Burrows
Booth Kes Higgins
Jensen Schroeder Kassian

leaving the coach to decide between Hansen, Lapierre, Maholtra, Weise and Raymond for a 4th line.

Or package 2 -3 of the 4th line and maybe even Booth and try and bring in some serious 2nd line skill. I can see that 3rd line being a major force in just 1 -2 years.

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10-30-2012, 08:09 PM
  #334
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That's a real green third line but I like the make-up in 2 or 3 years. Do we use the fourth and second lines as sort of quasi-checking lines?

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10-30-2012, 08:17 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
and I still see the Canucks this year with:

Sedins Burrows
Booth Kes Higgins
Jensen Schroeder Kassian

leaving the coach to decide between Hansen, Lapierre, Maholtra, Weise and Raymond for a 4th line.

Or package 2 -3 of the 4th line and maybe even Booth and try and bring in some serious 2nd line skill. I can see that 3rd line being a major force in just 1 -2 years.
That's absolutely unrealistic.

You really think that each of Kassian, Schroeder, and Jensen will get more playing time than any of Hansen, Lapierre, or Raymond?

Hansen and Lapierre, just two seasons ago, formed the nucleus of a very effective third line on the Canucks' cup run.

Raymond as well is a great third liner, average second liner, who I cannot see realistically playing below all three of Kassian, Schroeder, and Jensen.

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10-30-2012, 08:53 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Burrows is a way better player now than when he was playing with Kesler.

The perfect fit with the twins is someone that can look after them a little and make some room for them when the checking gets stifling in the playoffs.
Disagree.

The Sedins are grown men who can look after themselves. Nothing can deter a cheapshot, a la Keith's elbow, except harsher punishments.

The Sedins benefit from Burrows. That line works. You don't fix what isn't broken. It still amazes me, after the number of times Burrows has proven he is the best fit for that line, how so many people are eager to replace him.


The 2nd line is broken. If the Canucks acquire another skill player, like Kessel (the example someone suggested, which I was responding to), it makes far more sense to put him on the 2nd line to spread out the scoring. If the Canucks were to acquire a different player that would fit better with the Sedins, than I would be ok with entertaining that possibility, but Kessel with the Sedins is not a good fit.

Having another line that is a threat to score benefits the Sedins/Burrows, as they would not always be the target for another team's top pairing.


Last edited by 14s incisor: 10-30-2012 at 09:02 PM.
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Old
10-30-2012, 09:15 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
Sorry no way. Schneider is going to be a Vezina trophy winner, doubtful Kessel ever wins anything.
He'd have a cup ring, though.

Quote:
Jensen and Kassian give the Canucks everything they have been looking for in just a couple of years. A big tough body, and big talented winger.
Well we have to give to get. We'd still have one of them(preferably Kassian) but for a player like Kessel we can affored to give up a good prospect.
Quote:
Gaunce is a flier, but could easily end up being a Kessel light,
Not even close.

and is probably better than either Bozak or Finn in the long run. Finn - 35th overall .... doesn't project as high as Jensen, Kassian or Gaunce in my eyes. [/QUOTE]

You do know that Finn is outscoring Gaunce, as a defenseman right? What's more, he's been primarily touted as a shut down defenseman.

Quote:
Bozak is what, 26 or something, and his last 3 seasons projected over an 82 game year is something like 17, 15 & 20 goals.
He fits a need(3C). He's not the main piece, but he's a nice throw in.
Quote:
This is a horrible trade. If the Canucks were gong to trade Schneider, he should have been the key piece in landing Rick Nash.
I would prefer Kessel to Nash straight up, especially when you factor in cap hit.

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10-30-2012, 10:16 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
None of the players you mentioned are skill-only players. Even Krejci has more size, and brings more edge to the game than Kessel.
Also I've forgotten to add players like Kane, Briere, St. Louis, etc.

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10-30-2012, 10:32 PM
  #339
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The Sedins are grown men who can look after themselves.
They are definitely grown men, I do not think they've shown an ability to look after themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
The Sedins benefit from Burrows. That line works. You don't fix what isn't broken. It still amazes me, after the number of times Burrows has proven he is the best fit for that line, how so many people are eager to replace him.
I wouldn't say it isn't broken, their playoff scoring has been very inconsistent.

I wouldn't say Burrows has proven he's the best fit either, we have a bunch of players that haven't had a real look. He's definitely better than Taylor Pyatt, but that's no contest. Burr is a good fit, how do you know he's the best fit if you never try other players there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
Having another line that is a threat to score benefits the Sedins/Burrows, as they would not always be the target for another team's top pairing.
I do not think it's realistic to think we can build a second line good enough to take the number 1 pair away from the twins. IMO we need to figure out a way for them to beat that matchup.


Last edited by Scurr: 10-30-2012 at 10:41 PM.
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Old
10-30-2012, 11:05 PM
  #340
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Don't we already have too many third line wingers as it is?

A prospect who could too out as a 4th liner is pathetic value in a trade like this.

Essentially you want to trade Luongo for a mid first and second round draft pick and more of what we already have too much of. I hope Gillis doesn't agree with you because that's terrible value.
Phew. I am glad Sorcratic told you the stuff you did about that list he gave and you believed him.

Last year Kulemin scored 7 goals in 70 games. Thats about a 10 goal pace on 82 games. The year before last he scored 30. Why the drop you ask? Simple, Kulemin had 2 very close friends die in that plane crash. We in Leaf land all know that. If you check his stats, he has improved every year that he has been in the league. And he is a top 6 rugged forward that is amazing defensively. And by the way, you don't have one player that can compete with his speed. He beat Kessel in the fastest skater comp.

Tyler Biggs has top 9 potential, and he is big and mean.

The first most want is in a deep draft. Everyone knows this....including Burke.

Who knows about the second.

That is a major overpayment from Burke nothing close will be offered to that. Do some homework people.

So I am glad you do not want this deal. It aint happening anyway.

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10-30-2012, 11:18 PM
  #341
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In NHL 13 that might work but in real life you need someone to go get you the puck.

Also, Burrows is no enforcer but he's Mike Tyson compared to Phil Kessel, and who goes to the net?
Thats simple. With Kessel in your lineup the referee goes to the net....to fish the puck out. Kessel is going to be a 50 goal scorer.

But lets take care of one thing right away. Kessel is the leafs best player. He is not going to be offered up in any trade you have to offer us.

Kessel will never be a canuck. Hope and dream all you want.

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10-30-2012, 11:21 PM
  #342
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there is going to be a lot of dissappointed canuck fans when this deal is done I am afraid.

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10-30-2012, 11:26 PM
  #343
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What I know is that Roberto has said multiple times he'd like to be a starter somewhere and then he said that it's time to move on. To me, he's definitely done in Vancouver based on that. That is an opinion though, not fact.
I think that is the way most of us took Roberto's comments for the first few months. But this situation seems a bit more fluid now. There are a lot of factors to be considered. One of which is, it is no longer one day after a bitter playoff exit.

And then there is his limited choice of suitors. And the CBA. And the fact is, Roberto is already a valued member of an elite team and a key part of the best goaltending duo in the NHL.

Can he share duties with Scnhneider?

He seems to think so.

Could he be traded?

If Gillis gets an offer that actually helps this team.

No doubt.

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10-30-2012, 11:28 PM
  #344
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I know I will get ripped for this, but I would not do that deal. What's worth more? A one dimensional scorer or a legit starter in his prime. What helps you win more games?


Last year, Kessel lit the league on fire, but what was the gripe? Goaltending. The Leafs then proceeded to draft 5th overall...


Let's not even get into the playoffs where we have seen that the first type of player to get cancelled out is the pure skill player. Bigger, stronger, better board work, more pressure on opposing Ds down low, that's how you win games in the post-season. This is going backwards.
Hi Bleach. Normally I like your posts but this one is filled with holes my friend. First, Loungo is 33. I hardly see that as in his prime and I believe there is risk to that fat a$$ed contract.

We drafted 5th overall because Wilson lost the room. Everyone knows that.

But the biggest hole you are totally wrong about is Kessel and the playoffs. He is not the kind to get cancelled out. In 15 playoff games with the Bruins, Kessel has 9 goals and 15 points. And that was as a 20 year old coming off of battling cancer. Kessel thrives in the playoffs.

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10-30-2012, 11:33 PM
  #345
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Hi Bleach. Normally I like your posts but this one is filled with holes my friend. First, Loungo is 33. I hardly see that as in his prime and I believe there is risk to that fat a$$ed contract.
I'm guessing you didn't see which proposal he was referring to...

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10-30-2012, 11:33 PM
  #346
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Agreed. My biggest fear of acquiring a player like Kessel is watching him get shutdown in the playoffs with the twins. Much rather we flip a package like that to ANA for a guy like Perry.
Wow, some of you guys just don't know what you are talking about. Yes, your twins got shut down, but Kessel is a proven playoff performer with 15 points on 9 goals in 15 games.

Its just fun to read some of this stuff.

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10-30-2012, 11:39 PM
  #347
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Looks like Bozak has the potential to be David Booth v_2. Causing some 'controversy' on twitter w/ his costume. He's deleted it already..... oh my

http://wraparoundcurl.tumblr.com/pos...-tyle-bozak-in

I guess we can take him off Gillis's list now ey guys?

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10-30-2012, 11:40 PM
  #348
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Wow, some of you guys just don't know what you are talking about. Yes, your twins got shut down, but Kessel is a proven playoff performer with 15 points on 9 goals in 15 games.

Its just fun to read some of this stuff.
15 games is proven? sedins both had 24 pts in 22 games in '09 and '10, does that mean they are "proven"?

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10-30-2012, 11:40 PM
  #349
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Hi Bleach. Normally I like your posts but this one is filled with holes my friend. First, Loungo is 33. I hardly see that as in his prime and I believe there is risk to that fat a$$ed contract.

We drafted 5th overall because Wilson lost the room. Everyone knows that.

But the biggest hole you are totally wrong about is Kessel and the playoffs. He is not the kind to get cancelled out. In 15 playoff games with the Bruins, Kessel has 9 goals and 15 points. And that was as a 20 year old coming off of battling cancer. Kessel thrives in the playoffs.


Hey Sam. I responded to a hypothetical trade of Schneider++ for Kessel. Luongo was not involved. The prime part referred to Schneider. So there might be some confusion there.



About Kessel in the playoffs: My theory wasn't limited to him alone. Last year, skill was taken out of the game. Look at the teams that had advanced, and the ones that bowed out: CHI, DET, VAN in the west alone. The Dead Puck era was in full resurgence. With that type of environment, any skill player is going to have a much harder time getting anything done in the post season.

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10-30-2012, 11:52 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Hey Sam. I responded to a hypothetical trade of Schneider++ for Kessel. Luongo was not involved. The prime part referred to Schneider. So there might be some confusion there.



About Kessel in the playoffs: My theory wasn't limited to him alone. Last year, skill was taken out of the game. Look at the teams that had advanced, and the ones that bowed out: CHI, DET, VAN in the west alone. The Dead Puck era was in full resurgence. With that type of environment, any skill player is going to have a much harder time getting anything done in the post season.
Gotcha. Sorry about that.

I don't agree with the skilled guys being taken out. Maybe that happened on your team, but you can go to the top 4 teams and see their skilled guys reined supreme. Plus, it depends on the skilled guy we are talking about . Kessel is one determined SOB. And, contrary to what most people think here, his D play is coming along nicely. He is often first back because of his speed now.

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