HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Luongo Thread - Waiting on the World to Change (Mod Warning in OP)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-05-2012, 11:04 PM
  #851
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 51,202
vCash: 696
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Booth-Getzlaf-Perry
Sedin-Sedin-Kesler
Higgins-Schroeder-Hansen
Volpatti-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Connauton-Tanev

Schneider
Lack

looks pretty good to me. Too bad it's not realistic

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
11-05-2012, 11:08 PM
  #852
Taelin
Resident Hipster
 
Taelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,059
vCash: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Sedin - Sedin - Schroeder - Soft, classy line
Burrows - Kesler - Perry - Troll line
Raymond - Higgins - Booth - The girls fall all over me line
Hansen - Lapierre - Kassian - Hitting 24/7 line

I'm liking the third line.

Taelin is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 12:02 AM
  #853
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,107
vCash: 500
There aren't many centers in the league that I think Kesler would be happy moving over to wing for. His captain is probably one of the few.

Wisp is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 12:02 AM
  #854
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Probably won't be too popular a proposal, as we don't necessarily get optimal value, but in the spirit of realism I like this three-way deal with Columbus and Toronto:

Toronto: Luongo
Columbus: Raymond, Kadri, Schroeder
Vancouver: Kulemin, Anisimov, TO 2nd, CLB 2nd

What I like most about it is it addresses (IMO) our biggest need; a big, two way center that can pot goals, play defense and hit people from time to time. It also gives us a 2nd/3rd line tweener with a solid all around game in Kulemin, who's basically a bigger version of Higgins and definite upgrade on Raymond, that has been playing RW for the past two seasons. We also get two picks in the 30-45 range in a strong draft, where we should be able to snag some first round talent that fell down the chart.

Giving up Raymond and Schroeder makes the value a little bit less favourable, but I personally don't see them fitting with the future of this team. I'd rather package them and get players who fit the vision (not necessarily younger, but much bigger) than keep them for the sake of value in a vacuum.

Lineup would presmably look something like:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Higgins/Kulemin
Higgins/Kulemin-Anisimov-Hansen
Lapierre-Malhotra-Kassian

Or if Kassian is ready for top 6:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kassian
Higgins-Anisimov-Kulemin
Lapierre-Malhotra-Hansen

Go ahead and flame away, I expect the worst after following those Perry/Getzlaf proposals

StringerBell is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 12:11 AM
  #855
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 17,554
vCash: 500
To Ana- Kesler, Booth
To Van- Getzlaf, Perry

*Conditional on Gillis getting Getzlaf and Perry re-signed*

To Chi- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Bolland, Shaw

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Kassian Getzlaf Perry
Higgins Bolland Hansen
Malhotra Lapierre Shaw

Wouldn't miss Kesler.

Not afraid of meeting Luongo and the Hawks in the playoffs.

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 12:16 AM
  #856
Royal Canuck
Ronnie Hockey!
 
Royal Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,473
vCash: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To Ana- Kesler, Booth
To Van- Getzlaf, Perry

*Conditional on Gillis getting Getzlaf and Perry re-signed*

To Chi- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Bolland, Shaw

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Kassian Getzlaf Perry
Higgins Bolland Hansen
Malhotra Lapierre Shaw

Wouldn't miss Kesler.

Not afraid of meeting Luongo and the Hawks in the playoffs.
Anaheim wouldn't do that deal straight up.

__________________

Twitter |HFBoards Contact | Blog
PSN - TBennz
"You're never a loser until you quit trying. " - Mike Ditka
Royal Canuck is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 12:17 AM
  #857
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Nor would Kes waive his NTC.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 12:23 AM
  #858
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 17,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
Anaheim wouldn't do that deal straight up.
Probably not. But if they want to try and stay competetive they likely don't receive an offer with a better roster player than Kesler for their pending UFA's. Though re-building would make more sense if they're about to lose their top 2 players...

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 12:49 AM
  #859
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To Ana- Kesler, Booth
To Van- Getzlaf, Perry

*Conditional on Gillis getting Getzlaf and Perry re-signed*

To Chi- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Bolland, Shaw

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Kassian Getzlaf Perry
Higgins Bolland Hansen
Malhotra Lapierre Shaw

Wouldn't miss Kesler.

Not afraid of meeting Luongo and the Hawks in the playoffs.
What about Edler, Booth and picks? They could use a young Dman...might be worth more too them then Kesler, but we'd still be adding...probably a center.

Chicago won't be trading for Lu, and taking off my negative nancy pants, if we do strike a deal with Chicago, it likely won't be for a center, which is a position of need for them after Toews.

Cogburn is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 01:13 AM
  #860
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
What about Edler, Booth and picks? They could use a young Dman...might be worth more too them then Kesler, but we'd still be adding...probably a center.

Chicago won't be trading for Lu, and taking off my negative nancy pants, if we do strike a deal with Chicago, it likely won't be for a center, which is a position of need for them after Toews.
I think they're pretty happy with Sbisa, Fowler, Vatanan and Lindholm.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 01:52 AM
  #861
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Don Cherry weighed in on Luongo (and other topics): http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...ckout_fan_590/

Lol, at least he didn't call Luongo an 'escape goat' again. Luongos twitter account got a kick out of that.


Good link.


Also, "Escape Goat" is an epic username.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 02:48 AM
  #862
Moore Money
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Booth-Getzlaf-Perry
Sedin-Sedin-Kesler
Higgins-Schroeder-Hansen
Volpatti-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Connauton-Tanev

Schneider
Lack

looks pretty good to me. Too bad it's not realistic
That lineup looks awesome but you just had to make the Sedin line the 2nd line didn't you?

Sedin-Sedin-Kesler would blow away Booth-Getzlaf-Perry in terms of offensive production AINEC

Moore Money is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 02:57 AM
  #863
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,236
vCash: 500
Question for Nucks fans:


If a deal with TO is done, and VAN had to take on Bozak and Kadri in the same package, what else has to come along for it to make sense to VAN? And before Y2K or other jumps in and says Gardiner --> Assume he is off the table.


Is Bozak + Kadri + 1st + Frattin sufficient in your eyes? No Gardiner or Finn.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 03:03 AM
  #864
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Question for Nucks fans:


If a deal with TO is done, and VAN had to take on Bozak and Kadri in the same package, what else has to come along for it to make sense to VAN? And before Y2K or other jumps in and says Gardiner --> Assume he is off the table.


Is Bozak + Kadri + 1st + Frattin sufficient in your eyes? No Gardiner or Finn.
Good value, but the only piece I'm keen on is the 1st.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 03:10 AM
  #865
vanuck
#Gaunce4GM
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 13,222
vCash: 500
I'd want the 1st for sure and Frattin (Kulemin too if it were possible, though I don't see that happening), though having to take on *both* Bozak and Kadri is a bit of a downer for me. If they insisted on including those two I might even ask for their 2nd too.

vanuck is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 03:36 AM
  #866
Reverend Mayhem
I would be awesomer.
 
Reverend Mayhem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Port Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Reverend Mayhem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Question for Nucks fans:


If a deal with TO is done, and VAN had to take on Bozak and Kadri in the same package, what else has to come along for it to make sense to VAN? And before Y2K or other jumps in and says Gardiner --> Assume he is off the table.


Is Bozak + Kadri + 1st + Frattin sufficient in your eyes? No Gardiner or Finn.
I nix this deal for sure.

Reverend Mayhem is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 03:56 AM
  #867
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
I'd want the 1st for sure and Frattin (Kulemin too if it were possible, though I don't see that happening), though having to take on *both* Bozak and Kadri is a bit of a downer for me. If they insisted on including those two I might even ask for their 2nd too.


Yes, you have to take on both. Reason: Bozak, for better or worse, steps in right now at the 3C position. Kadri cannot do that. That's the problem. However, Kadri seems to be the number one prospect Burke could potentially make available. So he would insist on adding him IMO to add value to the package coming back.


What this does is add value from TO's side while they retain Gardiner/Finn.


I think 4 pieces is the max quantity returned. 3 being the most likely. That leaves the 1st as an auto-include, with Frattin/other as the last piece.




Does VAN favour a deal with 3 forwards coming back, all with NHL aspirations _this_season?


And FYI: I would do the deal. But then again, I'm not insisting on Gardiner/Finn in the return.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 04:02 AM
  #868
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Good value, but the only piece I'm keen on is the 1st.

Me too, but the reason it's a 4 piece deal is because nothing besides the 1st is sure to be a long-term asset. More risk is assumed by VAN here IMO. But TO still wins out. Even if TO fans don't see it.


None of the 3 forwards returned are 2way dependable. That immediately makes them less valuable to VAN. However, Kadri offers that boom/bust potential, while Bozak and Frattin are more the supplements to the current roster.


Hmmm I wonder if FLA would do Kadri for Petrovic straight across?

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:46 AM
  #869
Liferleafer
Bring on Stome-afin!
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Me too, but the reason it's a 4 piece deal is because nothing besides the 1st is sure to be a long-term asset. More risk is assumed by VAN here IMO. But TO still wins out. Even if TO fans don't see it.


None of the 3 forwards returned are 2way dependable. That immediately makes them less valuable to VAN. However, Kadri offers that boom/bust potential, while Bozak and Frattin are more the supplements to the current roster.


Hmmm I wonder if FLA would do Kadri for Petrovic straight across?
You'll have a hard time convincing many Leaf fans that giving our #1C, our best NHL ready prospect, a young physical winger who has already shown he can play in the NHL and our 1st (which may be pretty high as we no longer have a #1C) for a 33 year old goaltender a "win out" for the Leafs.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:02 AM
  #870
KeninsFan
"Unintentional" Tank
 
KeninsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,475
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Is Bozak + Kadri + 1st + Frattin sufficient in your eyes? No Gardiner or Finn.
The value of the package is high but it doesn't really adress any of our needs.

1st - good piece

Kadri - not a fan but I recognize his value. If we acquire him I hope Gillis flips him ASAP for a player we need

Frattin - he might end up a valuable top 9er one day. Next season Weise is probably better suited for 4th line duty...once again Frattin has value but isn't a fit currently.

Bozak - I'd rather spend a couple of late picks and pick up a #3C then deal Luongo for one.

KeninsFan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:04 AM
  #871
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
You'll have a hard time convincing many Leaf fans that giving our #1C, our best NHL ready prospect, a young physical winger who has already shown he can play in the NHL and our 1st (which may be pretty high as we no longer have a #1C) for a 33 year old goaltender a "win out" for the Leafs.



I'm curious, were leafs fans complaining when they got a 1st and Colborne for the shadow of Kaberle, set to become UFA at the end of the season? Colborne was once considered a good prospect for BOS, and the 1sts are always useful.



If you had the choice of keeping an elite talent, even at 33, on your team vs. a quantity trade (like the one I've listed), which would you choose? For me, without a doubt, I'm keeping that elite player. Because as soon as that player moves, you're team is invariably weaker.



There are some Canucks fans that already realize this. Others are cluing in. When Lu leaves, they will be losing the best asset in the deal --> By a fair margin. It's up to you if you want to see it as a win/loss for your team. I will view it as a loss regardless (barring an elite player coming back).

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:18 AM
  #872
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
The value of the package is high but it doesn't really adress any of our needs.

1st - good piece

Kadri - not a fan but I recognize his value. If we acquire him I hope Gillis flips him ASAP for a player we need

Frattin - he might end up a valuable top 9er one day. Next season Weise is probably better suited for 4th line duty...once again Frattin has value but isn't a fit currently.

Bozak - I'd rather spend a couple of late picks and pick up a #3C then deal Luongo for one.


I think with TO, the best one could expect is value, even if it doesn't address need.


Bozak is the one piece that does address the 3C position directly. I don't know if he'll work in that role, but that's where he fits on this team.


I agree with you on Weise/Frattin. DW has a more polished defensive game, while Frattin looks more to be in the Kassian mold: Capable, but not a shutdown player by any means.



From every speculation about a potential deal, Kadri + 1st seem like the most logical future pieces coming back. These two pieces make so much sense from a value standpoint that I cannot envision a TO deal without them. I know people don't like Kadri, but strictly based on projecting him as an NHLer alone, he brings value.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 08:44 AM
  #873
Liferleafer
Bring on Stome-afin!
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I'm curious, were leafs fans complaining when they got a 1st and Colborne for the shadow of Kaberle, set to become UFA at the end of the season? Colborne was once considered a good prospect for BOS, and the 1sts are always useful.



If you had the choice of keeping an elite talent, even at 33, on your team vs. a quantity trade (like the one I've listed), which would you choose? For me, without a doubt, I'm keeping that elite player. Because as soon as that player moves, you're team is invariably weaker.



There are some Canucks fans that already realize this. Others are cluing in. When Lu leaves, they will be losing the best asset in the deal --> By a fair margin. It's up to you if you want to see it as a win/loss for your team. I will view it as a loss regardless (barring an elite player coming back).
I understand completely. But you also have to look at it from the Leafs point of view. I know Bozak/Kadri/Frattin and a 1st is scraps to you, but from a Leafs standpoint, that IS our #1C/best NHL ready prospect/young physical winger with offensive upside and a likely high 1st. Sad i know, but it is what it is, and that is alot to give to upgrade 1 position. I agree that you should hang on to your elite player as the teams who would be interested can't afford to give the Nucks an upgrade as we are much worse teams.

As far as the Kab's deal, the Bos 1st was guaranteed to be a late 1st, and Colborne is what he is.(plus...they owed us 1...lol)

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 09:11 AM
  #874
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I understand completely. But you also have to look at it from the Leafs point of view. I know Bozak/Kadri/Frattin and a 1st is scraps to you, but from a Leafs standpoint, that IS our #1C/best NHL ready prospect/young physical winger with offensive upside and a likely high 1st. Sad i know, but it is what it is, and that is alot to give to upgrade 1 position. I agree that you should hang on to your elite player as the teams who would be interested can't afford to give the Nucks an upgrade as we are much worse teams.

As far as the Kab's deal, the Bos 1st was guaranteed to be a late 1st, and Colborne is what he is.(plus...they owed us 1...lol)


TO got a nice haul for a few months of Kabs. I don't fault you for it, but in the same vein, I didn't read too many complaints that day.


As to the deal, I think that's a _very_ reasonable price, even from TO's perspective. Bozak is _far_ from a 1C. There are even stats articles breaking down his play to be that of a replacement level player! (Think Andrew Ebbett (posted a few pages back I think)) Frattin's D game isn't rounded enough for him to be relied upon as a shutdown player - so what is he really? And Kadri is as boom/bust as it gets.


1 replacement level player, 2 AHL/NHL tweeners (at this point) and a 1st is too much to give up? For any elite player? Cmon LL. Burke is on record as saying the goaltending position is more important to franchise building that even the Dmen he is so often obsessed with... And he can't fork that over for one of the best in the game? Illogical.


If Gillis ever moves off Gardiner in his demands, Burke should thank him, offer up that package and run away laughing. He will be viewed as having fleeced Gillis on the transaction. Of this I have little doubt.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 09:29 AM
  #875
Liferleafer
Bring on Stome-afin!
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
TO got a nice haul for a few months of Kabs. I don't fault you for it, but in the same vein, I didn't read too many complaints that day.


As to the deal, I think that's a _very_ reasonable price, even from TO's perspective. Bozak is _far_ from a 1C. There are even stats articles breaking down his play to be that of a replacement level player! (Think Andrew Ebbett (posted a few pages back I think)) Frattin's D game isn't rounded enough for him to be relied upon as a shutdown player - so what is he really? And Kadri is as boom/bust as it gets.


1 replacement level player, 2 AHL/NHL tweeners (at this point) and a 1st is too much to give up? For any elite player? Cmon LL. Burke is on record as saying the goaltending position is more important to franchise building that even the Dmen he is so often obsessed with... And he can't fork that over for one of the best in the game? Illogical.


If Gillis ever moves off Gardiner in his demands, Burke should thank him, offer up that package and run away laughing. He will be viewed as having fleeced Gillis on the transaction. Of this I have little doubt.
Once again, and i don't fault you for it, you are looking at it STRICTLY through Canuck glasses. Look at what these players mean to the Leafs. Bozak IS, i repeat IS our #1C. He is the only player who has worked between Kessel and Lupul, so that is a big deal for us. Frattin IS a solid 3rd line player who filled in nicely FOR US on the 2nd line when needed. Kadri IS our best NHL ready prospect AND by removing our #1C i can tell you that 1st will be a good one.

Lets look at the rumoured interested teams, Tor/Edm/Fla/Cbj and maybe Chi. You have 3 bottom 5 teams, 1 who just made the playoffs and Chi, other than the Hawks, how do you think ANY of those teams can AFFORD to make the Canucks (Prez tropy winners back to back) a better team??

Liferleafer is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.