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Karlsson vs. Doughty vs. Pietrangelo (without a twist)

View Poll Results: Who is the best defenceman (in order):
Karlsson-Pietro-Doughty 85 18.24%
Karlsson-Doughty-Pietro 75 16.09%
Pietro-Karlsson-Doughty 70 15.02%
Pietro-Doughty-Karlsson 76 16.31%
Doughty-Karlsson-Pietro 57 12.23%
Doughty-Pietro-Karlsson 103 22.10%
Voters: 466. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-01-2012, 01:37 PM
  #401
HavlatMach9
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Yup but that credit goes to Hitchcock.
Then you have to give credit to their GM . I'd say we give credit to the players. The Blues disintegrated without Pietrangelo in the playoffs.

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11-01-2012, 01:55 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Then you have to give credit to their GM . I'd say we give credit to the players. The Blues disintegrated without Pietrangelo in the playoffs.
There should be no doubt that Pietrangelo was a huge factor in the Blues success this year. But he wasn't the only factor.

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11-01-2012, 02:02 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sparkle View Post
Lead? His defense stats were average on his team. Worse than average by 2% actually.

Jackman and Shattenkirk were more effective this year. I hope pietrangelo recovers to 2010/2011 shape next season.

Was it Colaiacovo's fault Pietrangelo had a down year? Maybe, hopefully. Is it Hitchcock's fault? maybe. His own fault? probably has to shoulder some blame.
You clearly never watched the Blues play last season or in the playoffs.

Pietrangelo allowed Jackman and Shattenkirk to play sheltered minus.

In the playoffs, Pietrangelo clearly showed how he was the most important individual, yes including Hitchcock, to our success. When he went down with a sprained MCL, our team was lost, and we became a completely different team.

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11-01-2012, 02:06 PM
  #404
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I might not see eye to eye with Sureves on anything, but at least he puts effort in. He began to watch more of Pietrangelo and his opinion of him changed. I can respect that.

To all the other posters saying that either the pairing of Jackman and Shattenkirk was the most effective or our goalies were most responsible or it was all Hitchcock and his system, please stop because it is clear that you haven't watched the Blues play.

Great teams have a lot of people involved in the success of the team. It just so happens that Pietrangelo is the only player on our team that we can't succeed without.

I love how HF gives our goalies and Hitch all the love, when HF was so against those 3 before.

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11-01-2012, 02:07 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Jocke View Post
Norris

Doughty/Pietrangelo
Olympic Gold/Stanley Cup

Norris

Piet

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11-01-2012, 02:09 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
But he wasn't the only factor.
That's right, but in this thread where some posts border on trolling or baiting that some posts in response aren't completely truthful.

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11-01-2012, 02:11 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
There should be no doubt that Pietrangelo was a huge factor in the Blues success this year. But he wasn't the only factor.
No one said he was the only factor, he was just the biggest.

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11-01-2012, 02:19 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post

To all the other posters saying that either the pairing of Jackman and Shattenkirk was the most effective or our goalies were most responsible or it was all Hitchcock and his system, please stop because it is clear that you haven't watched the Blues play.

Great teams have a lot of people involved in the success of the team. It just so happens that Pietrangelo is the only player on our team that we can't succeed without.

I love how HF gives our goalies and Hitch all the love, when HF was so against those 3 before.
Its not hard to give Hitchcock all the love, he took an average team and made them great.

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11-01-2012, 02:29 PM
  #409
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I don't have anything on Pietrangelo, but I did find these on Karlsson and Doughty.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ls-and-spills/

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-final-series/

Obviously, the Karlsson one is evaluating his entire season, and the Doughty one is just the Stanley Cup finals, but they start to give you an idea about how good overall Doughty is, and how poor Karlsson is on defense.

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11-01-2012, 02:33 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
No one said he was the only factor, he was just the biggest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Its not hard to give Hitchcock all the love, he took an average team and made them great.
Personally I'd side with bleeblue on this one. I think Pietrangelo was the biggest factor over Hitchcock.

No doubt Hitchcock played a big role too, but if you're saying Hitchcock made the difference for the Blues instead of Pietrangelo, it'd be symmetrical to say that Maclean made the difference for Ottawa and not Karlsson.

In reality, the truth is somewhere in the middle. EK, Spezza, and Maclean (HM Anderson) made the difference for Ottawa. AP, Hitchcock, goaltending, and Backes made it for St. Louis.

As I said, I may seem like I hate Pietrangelo with a fiery passion, but I don't. I complete understand that he's one of the best dman in the game and my posts shouldn't be interpreted as saying otherwise.

I just firmly believe Karlsson was better last year.

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11-01-2012, 02:35 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilShorts View Post
I don't have anything on Pietrangelo, but I did find these on Karlsson and Doughty.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ls-and-spills/

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-final-series/

Obviously, the Karlsson one is evaluating his entire season, and the Doughty one is just the Stanley Cup finals, but they start to give you an idea about how good overall Doughty is, and how poor Karlsson is on defense.
Thanks for links, but that's going to poke the hornet's nest. That being said, Doughty's biggest problem is his professionalism. I think he's got the perfect coach now to get the best out of him, but in the past, he didn't train much in the offseason. Last season he had the holdout. He was a little immature.

Now, I think he may finally realize how important he is to the team. During the playoffs, he said that in order for the Kings to win the Cup, he had to be the best defender on the ice every night. He squarely put pressure on himself by saying that to the press and then he delivered. That shows a modicum of maturity to me. If there's any coach out there to keep him accountable, it's certainly Sutter.

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11-01-2012, 02:50 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilShorts View Post
I don't have anything on Pietrangelo, but I did find these on Karlsson and Doughty.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ls-and-spills/

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-final-series/

Obviously, the Karlsson one is evaluating his entire season, and the Doughty one is just the Stanley Cup finals, but they start to give you an idea about how good overall Doughty is, and how poor Karlsson is on defense.
Quote:
In the end, I’d rank Karlsson’s performance in the top 10 or 15 d-men in the NHL.
All you need to know about that article

That guy is clearly objective and knows what he's talking about. I don't think the biggest Karlsson hater on HFboards would say something that stupid haha.

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11-01-2012, 03:29 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
You clearly never watched the Blues play last season or in the playoffs.

Pietrangelo allowed Jackman and Shattenkirk to play sheltered minus.

In the playoffs, Pietrangelo clearly showed how he was the most important individual, yes including Hitchcock, to our success. When he went down with a sprained MCL, our team was lost, and we became a completely different team.
Jackman and Shattenkirk don't play sheltered minutes. They played tougher minutes than Pietrangelo, arguably.

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11-01-2012, 03:34 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I might not see eye to eye with Sureves on anything, but at least he puts effort in. He began to watch more of Pietrangelo and his opinion of him changed. I can respect that.

To all the other posters saying that either the pairing of Jackman and Shattenkirk was the most effective or our goalies were most responsible or it was all Hitchcock and his system, please stop because it is clear that you haven't watched the Blues play.

Great teams have a lot of people involved in the success of the team. It just so happens that Pietrangelo is the only player on our team that we can't succeed without.

I love how HF gives our goalies and Hitch all the love, when HF was so against those 3 before.
I could be wrong but I don't remember Sureves ever flat out badmouthing Pie... Showing his results are inferior to other great players doesn't equate to having a poor opinion of the guy. Pietrangelo has always been good, but just not as good as Karlsson was this year. Also, my opinion is that Halak is a respectable goalie, Elliot is still a bad one and Hitchcock has pretty much always gotten amazing defensive results. None of that has changed!

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11-01-2012, 03:34 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sparkle View Post
Jackman and Shattenkirk don't play sheltered minutes. They played tougher minutes than Pietrangelo, arguably.
And how many Blues games did you watch?

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11-01-2012, 04:01 PM
  #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
Pietro
Doughty

Karlsson
I agree..

Karlsson may be better offensively, but most people prefer a d man who can look after their own end first.

Karlsson is average at best defensively, which is kind of ironic considering he's a defenseman.

Doughty and Pietrangelo is a great debate, but both are worlds ahead of Karlsson.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ls-and-spills/ - thats excellent reporting and shows the NHL writers look at only numbers when voting. This years Norris was a tainted one and anyone who looks beyond the box scores can see it.


Last edited by sparxx87: 11-01-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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11-01-2012, 04:12 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sparkle View Post
Jackman and Shattenkirk don't play sheltered minutes. They played tougher minutes than Pietrangelo, arguably.
what?

Shattenkirk plays some of the softest minutes possible. He gets all the offensive zone faceoffs and gets matched up against 3rd and 4th lines.

Pietrangelo takes all of the tough minutes for STL

So no it isn't arguable at all, its fact that Pie takes all the tough matchups


Last edited by Muzzinga: 11-01-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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11-01-2012, 04:17 PM
  #418
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what?

Shattenkirk plays some of the softest minutes possible. He gets all the offensive zone faceoffs and gets matched up against 3rd and 4th lines.

Pietrangelo takes all of the tough minutes for STL

So know it isn't arguable at all, its fact that Pie takes all the tough matchups
It's ridiculous to say they played tougher minutes than Pietrangelo, but Shattenkirk did go against the 2nd lines majority of the time with Jackman.

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11-01-2012, 04:42 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
It's ridiculous to say they played tougher minutes than Pietrangelo, but Shattenkirk did go against the 2nd lines majority of the time with Jackman.
Behindthenet has him as having the 2nd easiest minutes of the defencemen but ill take your word for it since you watched him

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11-01-2012, 04:49 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by aqsw View Post
Olympic Gold/Stanley Cup

Norris

Piet
One is not like the others. One of those awards actually shows the talent of that player. The other are team awards. I'll let you guess which.

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11-01-2012, 04:52 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Karlsson's game is about speed and pure offense.
If by "moving the puck" you are referring only to the offensive dimension, then you're missing a huge factor that he brings to the table for the Senators.

No one in Senators history has gotten the puck out of the zone more quickly and more cleanly than Erik Karlsson.

Redden had his vaunted first pass, but Karlsson can skate it out with equal flair, and his acceleration is elite.

If you get the puck out of your zone, that's a defensive play, not just an offensive one.

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11-01-2012, 05:01 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by OilShorts View Post
I don't have anything on Pietrangelo, but I did find these on Karlsson and Doughty.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ls-and-spills/

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-final-series/

Obviously, the Karlsson one is evaluating his entire season, and the Doughty one is just the Stanley Cup finals, but they start to give you an idea about how good overall Doughty is, and how poor Karlsson is on defense.


Sorry, haven't taken anything coming out of Edmonton seriously for the last 2 years.

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11-01-2012, 05:03 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
I agree..

Karlsson may be better offensively, but most people prefer a d man who can look after their own end first.

Karlsson is average at best defensively, which is kind of ironic considering he's a defenseman.

Doughty and Pietrangelo is a great debate, but both are worlds ahead of Karlsson.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ls-and-spills/ - thats excellent reporting and shows the NHL writers look at only numbers when voting. This years Norris was a tainted one and anyone who looks beyond the box scores can see it.
Which clearly doesn't apply to you.

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11-01-2012, 05:03 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
If by "moving the puck" you are referring only to the offensive dimension, then you're missing a huge factor that he brings to the table for the Senators.

No one in Senators history has gotten the puck out of the zone more quickly and more cleanly than Erik Karlsson.

Redden had his vaunted first pass, but Karlsson can skate it out with equal flair, and his acceleration is elite.

If you get the puck out of your zone, that's a defensive play, not just an offensive one.
karlssons transition game is probably generational. the fact that he can move and keep the puck out of his zone for 25-35 minutes a night is invaluable.

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11-01-2012, 05:38 PM
  #425
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I think to call something generational you have to prove yourself over the years. Crosby was called generational at one point and so was Ovechkin.

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