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Karlsson vs. Doughty vs. Pietrangelo (without a twist)

View Poll Results: Who is the best defenceman (in order):
Karlsson-Pietro-Doughty 85 18.24%
Karlsson-Doughty-Pietro 75 16.09%
Pietro-Karlsson-Doughty 70 15.02%
Pietro-Doughty-Karlsson 76 16.31%
Doughty-Karlsson-Pietro 57 12.23%
Doughty-Pietro-Karlsson 103 22.10%
Voters: 466. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-27-2012, 09:47 PM
  #151
NyQuil
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Well, the numbers keep changing which is typical for polls.

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10-27-2012, 11:29 PM
  #152
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For me its Karlsson's skating and puck control that will keep him a cut above the other two.

Hes a clear notch (or two) better than Doughty or Pietrangelo, which is amazing considering they are both fantastic skaters in their own right, and obviously no slouches with the puck on their sticks either. Karlsson's skating is just that good, and it will keep him among the very best players in the league if he continues to skate the way he does, especially with the puck on his stick.

If you consider all aspects of skating (speed, acceleration, agility, fluidity ect.), and factor in puck control, Karlsson has top be top 3 in the NHL, maybe #1 already. Only Crosby looks as smooth and confident on the ice imo.

Karlsson dominates in a different way than Doughty or Pietrangelo do, but the way he dominates has a greater impact on the game imo. There's some things you cant teach, and those are the things Karlsson has in spades over his competition. Thats what makes him the best of the three, and unless he takes a big step back somehow, I dont see that changing anytime soon.


Last edited by Samsquanch: 10-27-2012 at 11:43 PM.
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10-27-2012, 11:54 PM
  #153
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This just shows how evenly valuable these 3 young stars are.

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10-28-2012, 09:28 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsquanch View Post
For me its Karlsson's skating and puck control that will keep him a cut above the other two.

Hes a clear notch (or two) better than Doughty or Pietrangelo, which is amazing considering they are both fantastic skaters in their own right, and obviously no slouches with the puck on their sticks either. Karlsson's skating is just that good, and it will keep him among the very best players in the league if he continues to skate the way he does, especially with the puck on his stick.

If you consider all aspects of skating (speed, acceleration, agility, fluidity ect.), and factor in puck control, Karlsson has top be top 3 in the NHL, maybe #1 already. Only Crosby looks as smooth and confident on the ice imo.

Karlsson dominates in a different way than Doughty or Pietrangelo do, but the way he dominates has a greater impact on the game imo. There's some things you cant teach, and those are the things Karlsson has in spades over his competition. Thats what makes him the best of the three, and unless he takes a big step back somehow, I dont see that changing anytime soon.
This is the entire point about EK right here ,as i have mentioned repeatedly the only thing EK doesnt have on these other guys is size ,which is a disadvantage to EK on the defensive side .Hense he will never be able to make the bone crushing hit,or box out the big forward on the PK that most expect a top pairing defender to make.

But he can control the game like no other ,because of his speed ,skill and smarts being superior to any and all on that list

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10-28-2012, 01:53 PM
  #155
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This is the entire point about EK right here ,as i have mentioned repeatedly the only thing EK doesnt have on these other guys is size ,which is a disadvantage to EK on the defensive side .Hense he will never be able to make the bone crushing hit,or box out the big forward on the PK that most expect a top pairing defender to make.

But he can control the game like no other ,because of his speed ,skill and smarts being superior to any and all on that list
Drew Doughty on ice vision AND skill level is top notch. When on his game, Doughty reminiscent the game of Ray Bourque.



And like I said, Doughty is the only one of the tree that has proved that he can play on the highest level in the most high pressure situation like WJC finals, Stanley Cup finals and Olympic games finals.

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10-28-2012, 04:30 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
Drew Doughty on ice vision AND skill level is top notch. When on his game, Doughty reminiscent the game of Ray Bourque.



And like I said, Doughty is the only one of the tree that has proved that he can play on the highest level in the most high pressure situation like WJC finals, Stanley Cup finals and Olympic games finals.
Yep he is the closest to EK in that regard and with size to be ahead in the physical department ,therefore I see him being the owner of the most Norris trophies when both their careers are done.EK will outscore him and improve defensively, but not enough in most years to make up ground on the physical play on the defensive side that only a larger defenseman like a doughty can


Last edited by topshelf15: 10-28-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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10-28-2012, 04:41 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
Drew Doughty on ice vision AND skill level is top notch. When on his game, Doughty reminiscent the game of Ray Bourque.



And like I said, Doughty is the only one of the tree that has proved that he can play on the highest level in the most high pressure situation like WJC finals, Stanley Cup finals and Olympic games finals.
Doughty is near the top of of the league in terms of skill and offensive prowess for defencemen. Karlsson is at the top unquestionably. Even the biggest Karlsson detractors can admit he's got that category covered off.

Forget Ray Borque, we would have the next Bobby Orr if Doughty had Karlsson's skill.

And yes, Doughty has preformed well in the playoffs and Olympics, but he's also played on some ridiculously stacked teams. Its a totally different kind of pressure situation when your "the guy", or "the only guy", which Doughty has never been. Lets compare team accomplishments when their careers are winding down, not just beginning at the age of 21-22.


Last edited by Samsquanch: 10-28-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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10-28-2012, 04:43 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsquanch View Post
Doughty is near the top of of the league in terms of skill and offensive prowess for defencemen. Karlsson is at the top unquestionably. Even the biggest Karlsson detractors can admit he's got that category covered off.

Forget Ray Borque, we would have Bobby Orr if Doughty had Karlsson's skill.
Yeah or maybe Doughty plays for the most defensive team in the league and Karlsson plays for an offensive team. Doughty is Karlsson's equal in terms of offense

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10-28-2012, 04:49 PM
  #159
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Yeah or maybe Doughty plays for the most defensive team in the league and Karlsson plays for an offensive team. Doughty is Karlsson's equal in terms of offense
Karlsson put up 42 more points than Doughty last year. I'm sorry, but no matter what way you try to stretch it, Doughty is not on Karlsson's level offensively. Doughty is getting overrated here.

If Karlsson played on the Kings, he probably wouldn't have put up 78 points. However, no way he loses 42 points. But he would have appeared better defensively because he had the support the Kings system gives. It works both ways.

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10-28-2012, 04:51 PM
  #160
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Yeah or maybe Doughty plays for the most defensive team in the league and Karlsson plays for an offensive team. Doughty is Karlsson's equal in terms of offense
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

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10-28-2012, 04:55 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Karlsson put up 42 more points than Doughty last year. I'm sorry, but no matter what way you try to stretch it, Doughty is not on Karlsson's level offensively. Doughty is getting overrated here.

If Karlsson played on the Kings, he probably wouldn't have put up 78 points. However, no way he loses 42 points. But he would have appeared better defensively because he had the support the Kings system gives. It works both ways.
Doughty also had the holdout, and he started out really slow this year.

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Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I'm right 100 percent don't know what to tell you

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Old
10-28-2012, 05:12 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
I'm right 100 percent don't know what to tell you
Well, Doughty does have more career points than Karlsson, so you indeed might be right
 GPGAPts
Doughty31643119162
Karlsson21637112149

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10-28-2012, 06:05 PM
  #163
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It's like asking who would you rather have, Ray Bourque, Brian Leetch, or Scott Niedermayer. Can't really go wrong with either three. They're a cut above the rest of the dmen selected in their draft class. Doughty has the lead in terms of hardware that matters, Karlsson has the Norris, and Pietrangelo is close to reaching that level as well. They're among the top 5 defensemen in the NHL now, along with Shea Weber and Zdeno Chara. We can all agree that they're not overhyped players like P.K. Subban, Luke Schenn or Zach Bogosian.

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10-28-2012, 06:09 PM
  #164
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We can all agree that they're not overhyped players like P.K. Subban, Luke Schenn or Zach Bogosian.
Bogosian is anything but overhyped. If anything he gets less credit than he deserves.

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10-28-2012, 06:44 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Doughty has the lead in terms of hardware that matters, Karlsson has the Norris, and Pietrangelo is close to reaching that level as well.
We're comparing individuals, not teams.

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10-28-2012, 06:47 PM
  #166
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The worst thing that could happen because of threads like this is a lack of appreciation for any one of these guys.

It's an exciting time to be a fan for game-changing defencemen.

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10-28-2012, 06:48 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
We're comparing individuals, not teams.
Again, Doughty was probably the best player on the Kings team and many agreed that he deserved the Conn Smythe. So far that is to say, Doughty has a great playoff run where he went all the way to his name, which we are arguing is the best achievement of any player mentioned in this thread. Next of course is Karlsson's Norris winning season and then you have Doughty's 3rd Norris.

And really the other side of the argument - yes Karlsson has obviously had superior regular seasons to Doughty, who has had two somewhat dissapointing regular seasons following an awesome sophomore year. But honestly the Kings had to go through a pretty ridiculous phase. So we are hopeful that under Sutter he will "return" to 60 point form


Last edited by LAX attack*: 10-28-2012 at 06:53 PM.
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10-28-2012, 07:16 PM
  #168
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We're comparing individuals, not teams.
Did you watch any playoff games? If we're comparing individuals, you'd say that Doughty was better than Karlsson. No defenseman came close to matching Doughty's performance in the playoffs.

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10-28-2012, 07:51 PM
  #169
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Doughty-Pietrangelo-Karlsson

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10-28-2012, 08:00 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
Doughty also had the holdout, and he started out really slow this year.
And Karlsson had a bad bunch of sticks in the middle of the year and had a 1.2 shooting percentage in December (from then on he went on a 35 goal pace). Excuses are excuses. Slow starts do not equal the difference between 42 points.

And thanks for reminding me about the holdout. In Ottawa we've been burned a lot by character in the past, and Doughty doesn't have the best reputation. From my understanding the Kings were his childhood team? And he turned around and held out on them for $7.5M? Where as Karlsson signed for $6.5M in June. Personally, Doughty's holdout was childish and greedy to me. Lost a little bit of respect for him.

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10-28-2012, 08:33 PM
  #171
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Doughty's holdout might make him less desirable to Sens fans, but we're comparing the ability of players here. We're not talking about who we'd rather have on our team. I'm not really sure what Doughty's holdout has to do with anything other than perhaps influencing his stats early on in the season. I realize it doesn't make him look good, but come on now. How is PR something that can even be considered here?

FWIW I don't think Doughty is on the same level as Karlsson is at the moment. Karlsson still needs to show his 78 pt season wasn't a fluke, but at the moment he's the best offensive defenseman in the league, Doughty's playoffs notwithstanding.

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10-28-2012, 09:01 PM
  #172
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Doughty's holdout might make him less desirable to Sens fans, but we're comparing the ability of players here. We're not talking about who we'd rather have on our team. I'm not really sure what Doughty's holdout has to do with anything other than perhaps influencing his stats early on in the season. I realize it doesn't make him look good, but come on now. How is PR something that can even be considered here?

FWIW I don't think Doughty is on the same level as Karlsson is at the moment. Karlsson still needs to show his 78 pt season wasn't a fluke, but at the moment he's the best offensive defenseman in the league, Doughty's playoffs notwithstanding.
I'm more talking about going forward than right now. I know that's not the threads question, but it's pretty much turned into that. Right now they're all fairly close, although I'd take the Norris winner or the player who played amazing hockey in the playoffs and won the Cup. But character does add something going into the future.

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10-28-2012, 09:45 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
And Karlsson had a bad bunch of sticks in the middle of the year and had a 1.2 shooting percentage in December (from then on he went on a 35 goal pace). Excuses are excuses. Slow starts do not equal the difference between 42 points.

And thanks for reminding me about the holdout. In Ottawa we've been burned a lot by character in the past, and Doughty doesn't have the best reputation. From my understanding the Kings were his childhood team? And he turned around and held out on them for $7.5M? Where as Karlsson signed for $6.5M in June. Personally, Doughty's holdout was childish and greedy to me. Lost a little bit of respect for him.
Wow I didn't know this was a character assassination thread. Doughty is a kind of player you pay 1 million more than Karlsson because he brings that much more to the ice. And it is admitted that his regular season play is not up to the caliber that Karlsson has displayed in a shorter career, if you are going to go by the Norris record and points alone. But Doughty by all metrics has had significant success in the playoffs, whereas Karlsson has not done this yet

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10-28-2012, 09:51 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
Wow I didn't know this was a character assassination thread. Doughty is a kind of player you pay 1 million more than Karlsson because he brings that much more to the ice. And it is admitted that his regular season play is not up to the caliber that Karlsson has displayed in a shorter career, if you are going to go by the Norris record and points alone. But Doughty by all metrics has had significant success in the playoffs, whereas Karlsson has not done this yet
Karlsson has had great playoffs success, he just hasn't been on a stacked team.

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10-28-2012, 09:54 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
Wow I didn't know this was a character assassination thread. Doughty is a kind of player you pay 1 million more than Karlsson because he brings that much more to the ice. And it is admitted that his regular season play is not up to the caliber that Karlsson has displayed in a shorter career, if you are going to go by the Norris record and points alone. But Doughty by all metrics has had significant success in the playoffs, whereas Karlsson has not done this yet
This has more to do with the LA Kings as a whole though then a Karlsson vs Cowen debate. I'm all for someone thinking Doughty is better, but that seems like a silly reason.

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