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Old
10-26-2012, 10:34 AM
  #101
416Leafer
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
i think Montreal is going to miss the playoff anyways. So i dont mind have Budaj and Desjardins for one season.

I would wait for a good opportunity to acquire a goalie.
Leafs have been saying that for 7 years.

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10-26-2012, 10:50 AM
  #102
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I like Carlson a lot, and I think he's a decent to good #1D, but I'm not sure he has the same potential to leave his mark on the game that Yakupov does. Since Washington picked up Ribeiro, maybe Yakupov + something for Carlson and Laich? I think Laich could be a great fit for #2C on the Oilers.
If not Belanger's history with the Caps, I'd ask for him as "+". If not Horcoff's salary, I'd ask for him What about Jeff Petry?

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10-26-2012, 10:56 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Yeah, it's cool because no way in hell would Buffalo offer Myers straight up for Yakupov, let alone Myers plus Hodgson.
I appreciate that we fans always overvalue players on our teams, and I think Myers will be a very good D man in this league, but Yakupov will very quickly become worth far more than Myers. Think of the dynamics Yakupov and Grigorenko could have playing together, you are talking about a duo that should both be near the top 10 in league scoring for years...

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10-26-2012, 11:09 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ZugNugget View Post
I like Carlson a lot, and I think he's a decent to good #1D, but I'm not sure he has the same potential to leave his mark on the game that Yakupov does. Since Washington picked up Ribeiro, maybe Yakupov + something for Carlson and Laich? I think Laich could be a great fit for #2C on the Oilers.

Seems like an interesting deal. Caps fans would have to weigh in, though, as I am not 100% certain about their needs.

Couture + Clowe for Yakupov is a great basis for a deal from an Oilers perspective, IMO. Not sure if the Sharks would do it though, with an aging Thornton and a guy like Hertl a few years away from making an impact.

San Jose would never do that. Couture is a non-starter for them. Sharks fans will rip this one severely.

Price + Emelin + Tinordi is very solid offer. Price is a top young goalie and would make the Oilers a playoff team, IMO. Emelin and Tinordi are both huge shutdown guys who could play on the 2nd or 3rd pairing (Tinordi with an outside chance at 1st pairing, IMO), and would really round out our up and comers like Schultz, Klefbom, and Marincin. For salary purposes, we would probably need to include Dubnyk, which may or may not require a small throw in from Montreal.


Schneider + Edler would be a great deal if it didn't mean shipping Yakupov off to a division rival.

Vancouver wouldn't do that. Edler is too important and they see Schneider as the future. I doubt Vancouver would even be willing to do Luongo and Edler, but you would need a Canucks fan to elaborate more thoroughly on that one.
Yakupov is looking great in the minors. He has the potential to be great. He can also become a complete bust. Ask Wickenheiser, Daigle, Stefan, etc...He could even simply become decent, like Erik Johnson. The packages you are asking for are not going to be offered by most of those teams. Especially the Montreal one. We wouldn't offer Price for Yakupov +, never mind trying to get US to give Price ++ for Yakupov...lol.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 10-26-2012 at 03:21 PM. Reason: you made several mistakes; you just didn't correct them all. don't flame
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10-26-2012, 11:17 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Leafs have been saying that for 7 years.
Toronto is one of the teams who tryed the hardest to find a solid goalie in the last decade

Toskala, Raycroft, Giguere....

What if they didn't try ?

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10-26-2012, 11:25 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
As a Montréal fan, I offer Carey Price, Emelin and Tinordi.

Then reunite Yakupov and Galchenyuk!
As a fan who doesn't understand hockey, hates Price, and is willing to gut the strongest part of our team. Great, terrific deal. Thanks. Please, can you find another team to cheer for? Thank everything that exists you are not our GM...

No other Montreal "fan" would agree with this foolish offer. Wow...just....wow...

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10-26-2012, 11:29 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
As a fan who doesn't understand hockey, hates Price, and is willing to gut the strongest part of our team. Great, terrific deal. Thanks. Please, can you find another team to cheer for? Thank everything that exists you are not our GM...

No other Montreal "fan" would agree with this foolish offer. Wow...just....wow...
I really think you misunderstood me.

i never ever hated price, i always cheered for him and wanted us to keep him and trade Halak instead, because it was the right think to do. Price is my second favorite habs player after Subban.

But hockey is not about keeping our favorite player, if we have to trade them for the greater good of a team then we have to do it!

For the exact same reason i wanted Halak to go, i think its the right thing to do to trade Price now, especially if we can get a Yakupov in return.

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10-26-2012, 11:32 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
My uncle told me: "no teams is ever deep enough at this position!"
I guess you never listened to him, then, since we have nothing of value at the position in our organization after Price! I know, I know, Desjardins is french so he will be the next Roy, but let's try to live in the real word where we already have one of the best goalie's in the league to help us win as opposed to a back-up and a minor leaguer.

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10-26-2012, 11:33 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Toronto is one of the teams who tryed the hardest to find a solid goalie in the last decade

Toskala, Raycroft, Giguere....

What if they didn't try ?
They'd have Rask?

That's my point. It's very difficult to acquire a top goalie. None have hit free agency since before the lockout that I can think of.

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10-26-2012, 11:34 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Yakupov is looking great in the minors. He has the potential to be great. He can also become a complete bust. Ask Wickenheiser, Daigle, Stefan, etc...He could even simply become decent, like Erik Johnson. The packages you are asking for are not going to be offered by most of those teams. Especially the Montreal one. We wouldn't offer Price for Yakupov +, never mind trying to get US to give Price ++ for Yakupov...lol.
This Sharks fan was the one who made the offer in the first place. Yes, Couture is basically untouchable, but Yakupov is one of the few players in the league that I'd add to him to get. The Sharks need a real young franchise forward, and Yakupov would be that player. Obviously I love Couture and I think he's a fantastic young player, but Yakupov is on a different level. I don't think Couture is good enough to carry this team post-prime Joe Thornton, I think Yakupov would have a chance.

Personally, I'd love to flip Couture+ for an elite young forward: Any of the Oilers kids except Eberle, Patrick Kane, Bobby Ryan, etc.

As for Clowe... I'm just not a fan of him and personally I wouldn't miss him too much. The only thing would be that we'd only have 5 top-6 forwards. But Chicago manages to live with that. Put Nail and Thornton together, and they could float pretty much anyone on their LW. A Tommy Wingels or a TJ Galiardi, perhaps.

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10-26-2012, 11:39 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Cody played 83 NHL games last year, 41 points, with an average of 13:49 playing time a game... not bad production really in his first real year in the league.

He's tied for the AHL scoring lead with nine points in six games....

Interesting stats... seconds on the ice, for every point scored...

1 PIT Sidney Crosby 658.8108108
2 PIT Evgeni Malkin 867.6605505
3 WSH Nicklas Backstrom 1096.772727
4 TBL Steven Stamkos 1116.721649
5 OTT Jason Spezza 1138.095238
6 VAN Henrik Sedin 1159.135802
7 DET Pavel Datsyuk 1226.567164
8 BOS Tyler Seguin 1228.298507
9 NJD Patrik Elias 1236.807692
10 NYI John Tavares 1249.234568
11 EDM Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 1259.076923
12 CHI Jonathan Toews 1293.859649
13 SJS Joe Thornton 1307.74026
14 DET Valtteri Filppula 1343.863636
15 SJS Logan Couture 1369.846154
16 BOS Rich Peverley 1374.785714
17 LAK Anze Kopitar 1381.052632
18 BOS David Krejci 1407.983871
19 BOS Patrice Bergeron 1409.90625
20 DAL Mike Ribeiro 1411.873016
21 WPG Kyle Wellwood 1469.553191
22 TBL Vincent Lecavalier 1482.44898
23 MTL David Desharnais 1489.05
24 PIT Jordan Staal 1491.72
25 NYR Brad Richards 1509.545455
26 CAR Eric Staal 1513.485714
27 DET Jiri Hudler 1522.8
28 CGY Olli Jokinen 1528.42623
29 TOR Mikhail Grabovski 1532.235294
30 NJD Adam Henrique 1580.117647
31 MIN Mikko Koivu 1601.25
32 CAR Jeff Skinner 1624.727273
33 NSH Mike Fisher 1633.411765
34 NSH David Legwand 1635.056604
35 EDM Sam Gagner 1643.617021
36 SJS Joe Pavelski 1661.508197
37 VAN, BUF Cody Hodgson 1678.219512
38 COL Paul Stastny 1682.849057
39 COL Ryan O'Reilly 1724.563636
40 FLA Stephen Weiss 1726.315789
41 MTL, CGY Mike Cammalleri 1748.195122
42 WSH Marcus Johansson 1753.043478
43 TOR Tyler Bozak 1755.106383
44 STL David Backes 1820.703704
45 NYR Derek Stepan 1826.509804
46 NYI Frans Nielsen 1826.680851
47 ANA Ryan Getzlaf 1862.982456
48 VAN Ryan Kesler 1893.571429
49 LAK Mike Richards 1905.5
50 MTL Tomas Plekanec 1939.326923


Note, I only included the top 60 points scoring C's..., plus Crosby
Really interesting list. There were some suprises there for sure (Peverly, Desharnais)...

but any list showing Hodgson just below Gagner (who has "stagnated" since his first year), isn't the strongest argument with your typical Oiler fan.

Anyway, I'm reasonably confident that Hodgson is a reasonable #2C, and that Myers is a 2A or 1B Dman... but also quite convinced that Yakupov is a 1A winger at worst and potentially a superstar winger. I'd want a solid #1 X and a solid #2 Y coming back.

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10-26-2012, 11:39 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I really think you misunderstood me.

i never ever hated price, i always cheered for him and wanted us to keep him and trade Halak instead, because it was the right think to do. Price is my second favorite habs player after Subban.

But hockey is not about keeping our favorite player, if we have to trade them for the greater good of a team then we have to do it!

For the exact same reason i wanted Halak to go, i think its the right thing to do to trade Price now, especially if we can get a Yakupov in return.
Look, I don't really know you, and do not want to be insulting. However, you have been trying to get rid of Price for peanuts in almost every trade thread you get engaged in that I have seen. Yakupov is a terrific player in the minors with tons of potential for the NHL. He is also smallish and has had two concussions while playing boys. He is a strong player who plays a tough style of game that is going to put him in more positions to get more concussions when he plays against NHL players. He is NOT what we need in return for Price.

Then you want to add our two toughest defencemen in the entire organization, an absolute area of need for our team, to the deal as well? Why not offer Pacioretty and Subban into the deal. Seriously, take Price away, along with Emelin and Tinordi and you weaken our goaltending and defence to the point of laughability. Are you trying to get us to tank so we can get the #1 overall next year as well?

Price, Emelin, and Tinordi is horrendous for us to offer for Yakupov. We open 3 significant holes to fill one. It is a complete waste of assets and makes no sense to the team. Especially since we can always move Galchenyuk up into the top 6 at wing if necessary.

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10-26-2012, 11:43 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
This Sharks fan was the one who made the offer in the first place. Yes, Couture is basically untouchable, but Yakupov is one of the few players in the league that I'd add to him to get. The Sharks need a real young franchise forward, and Yakupov would be that player. Obviously I love Couture and I think he's a fantastic young player, but Yakupov is on a different level. I don't think Couture is good enough to carry this team post-prime Joe Thornton, I think Yakupov would have a chance.

Personally, I'd love to flip Couture+ for an elite young forward: Any of the Oilers kids except Eberle, Patrick Kane, Bobby Ryan, etc.

As for Clowe... I'm just not a fan of him and personally I wouldn't miss him too much. The only thing would be that we'd only have 5 top-6 forwards. But Chicago manages to live with that. Put Nail and Thornton together, and they could float pretty much anyone on their LW. A Tommy Wingels or a TJ Galiardi, perhaps.
Really? Hey, you know your team better than I do, but I would love to have COuture on the Habs and think he will only get better. I think he and Clowe combined are too much to give for Yakuov alone, but I am a Habs fan. Sorry to poop on your parade.

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10-26-2012, 11:46 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Yakupov is a terrific player in the minors .
You keep saying this.... but Yakupov is playing (actually lighting up) the KHL. It is a professional league... I don't think "the minors" is a very fair characterization.

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10-26-2012, 11:46 AM
  #115
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From the Pens I'd offer

Joe Morrow or Simon Despres
Scott Harrington or Olli Maatta
1st round pick 2013
2nd round pick 2014

Edmonton goes from arguably the worse defense pool to the best in the NHL within two years.
Just so you know EDM does not have one of the worse defense pool in the NHL. I would say that Schultz is better than any of those dmen, Klefbom is just as good as any of those dmen and Marincin is proven himself. Musil will be just as good as Despres or harrington also.

I would not trade Yak for that package.

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10-26-2012, 11:47 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
As a Montréal fan, I offer Carey Price, Emelin and Tinordi.

Then reunite Yakupov and Galchenyuk!
I like Price but I don't like his Cap hit of 6.5mil, when he signed that contract I thought it was too much and think with the players we have we won't be able to pay a goalie that much.

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10-26-2012, 11:50 AM
  #117
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If Yakupov is traded, it will be for a big RHS C or a top 6 powered forward. Their D is starting to look good with Klefbom, Marincin, Musil, and J.Schultz in the system and Smid, Petry, and N.Schultz. IMO Dubie has earned his shot to be the Oilers #1 goalie and cannot see them trading for a Goalie when they have bigger problems with the Center position.

Never been a fan of Yakupov's and IMO he isn't the right fit for the Oilers. Will he be traded, I hope so, but it will be for a player or players the Oilers need.

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10-26-2012, 11:51 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
They'd have Rask?

That's my point. It's very difficult to acquire a top goalie. None have hit free agency since before the lockout that I can think of.
is that so ?

Lets take a look at the last vezina trophy vote and how hard it was for each team to acquire their top goalie :

1.Lundqvist: drafted 205th overall
2.Quick : Drafted 72nd overall
3.Rinne: Drafted 258th overall
4.Mike Smith: 2 000 000$ UFA
5.Elliott : 600 000$ UFA
6.Halak: Lars Eller (+ Ian Schultz)
7.Marc André Fleury : 1st overall
7. Kiprusoff : traded for a 2nd round

So among the top 8 NHL goalie (according to the GM doing the vote!)

The most hard to acquire was MAF (1st overall) and Halak (Eller)

there was 2 top 5 NHL goalie last season (still according to the GM doing the vote!) able to be find last summer on the cheap UFA market!

If Toronto didnt gave a fortune to acquire Toskala, maybe they would ended up with Bryzgalov who was placed on the waiver.

The Norris Trophy in comparison:

1.Karlsson: 15th overall
2.Weber: 49th overall
3.Charra; 7.5 million UFA
4.Pietrangelo: 4th overall
5.Lidstrom: 53th overall
6. Girardi: undrafted
7. Campbell: Cap dump
8. Ryan Sutter: 7.5 millions UFA

Its seem to me its harder to find a top defenseman than a top goalie


Last edited by palindrom: 10-26-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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10-26-2012, 12:02 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Fan of the Leafs, there isn't a deal to be made for Yakupov with the Leafs due to a combination of a winger being the only strongish positive for the Leafs, and not being able to afford putting together a good deal without giving up too much. The previously mentioned Leafs deals were ridiculous though, no way that would ever get the deal done from an Edmonton POV.

What about Cody Hodgson and Tyler Myers for Yakupov?

Or Cory Schneider and Kassian for Yakupov?

How about Malcolm Subban and Dougie Hamilton for Yakupov?
Not interested in Hodgson, Scheider is a good goalie but Kassian is not enough addition, Subban and Hamilton are not enough, it would have to be a proven asset like Myers but something added to it.

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10-26-2012, 12:05 PM
  #120
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I would do any of those if I was Edmonton.

Hodgson - Two-way top 6 centre. Unlikely to hit the #1 C aspirations people thought he would a few years ago, but he solidifies Edmonton down the middle with RNH/Hodgson
Myers - Gives you a true pillar to build around on the blueline. He's that potential high end piece Edm is missing back there.

Fills two major holes.

Schneider - One of the best young goalies in the league. Has put up better numbers than Luongo, who has been a top 10 goalie for a long time. Edm would be greatly improved with elite goaltending
Kassian - Edm could use a bit more size/grittiness in their top 6. Not the best piece out of all of these, but still fills a need

Fills one major hole and one minor hole

Hamilton - Arguably the best defence prospect in the world. Has the size, skill, and skating to be a true franchise D.
Subban - A big question mark as he was JUST drafted, and goalies take a while. But he looks GREAT. Would instantly become Edmontons best hope for a #1 Goalie down the line. In a few years, Edm would have a great group of forwards, a great D corps, and hopefully a budding star in net to play behind a solid team

Potentially fills two major holes

VS

Keeping Yakupov, who is fairly redundant since Edm already has Hall/Eberle (not to mention Hemsky). The team doesn't need three franchise wingers. They need another Centre, a top end D, and a #1 G. Trading Yakupov could go a long ways to filling a few holes and making the team much more competitive
I would take Gagner over Hodgson any day of the week.

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10-26-2012, 12:11 PM
  #121
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Perspective is everything. Yakupov has 8 points in 9 games and he's lighting it up. His value is sky-rocketing. Ovechkin has 13 points in 12 games and there's a thread on the NHL board about him being a bust. Go figure.

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10-26-2012, 12:12 PM
  #122
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I like the idea of Couture in EDM, that is the perfect centreman for this team and he adds size. Couture and Clowe would be two nice additions. I can see Yak and PRV maybe what do you guys think?

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10-26-2012, 12:12 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
is that so ?

Lets take a look at the last vezina trophy vote :

1.Lundqvist: drafted 205th overall
2.Quick : Drafted 72nd overall
3.Rinne: Drafted 258th overall
4.Mike Smith: 2 000 000$ UFA Product of his team. He's gotten better than before, but look at how the perception of both Bryzgalov and Smith changed this year as one went from Phoenix to a less defensively responsible team, and another went from a less defensively responsible team to Phoenix. Phoenix is one of the best defensive teams in the leagues.
5.Elliott : 600 000$ UFA Same as Smith. Largely a product of St. Louis/Hitchcock. Yet to prove that he's a good #1.
6.Halak: Lars Eller (+ Ian Schultz) Only decent example on this list. Halak is pretty good, and was traded for. But I wouldn't say he's a top 10 goalie. Closer to 10-15 range
7.Marc André Fleury : Drafted 1st overall
7. Kiprusoff : traded for a 2nd round This occurred before the lockout. I was talking about how the Leafs couldn't acquire anyone in the last 7 years, this was before that.
Halak is the only good example, and his trade was considered odd at the time, expectations were that Montreal could have gotten more for him. Varlamov for example cost a relatively high 1st round pick, and that's just to take a chance on Varlamov. He's not exactly a proven top goalie. So that's arguably the going price for a pretty good young goalie, not even an elite young goalie.

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10-26-2012, 12:20 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Fan of the Leafs, there isn't a deal to be made for Yakupov with the Leafs due to a combination of a winger being the only strongish positive for the Leafs, and not being able to afford putting together a good deal without giving up too much. The previously mentioned Leafs deals were ridiculous though, no way that would ever get the deal done from an Edmonton POV.

What about Cody Hodgson and Tyler Myers for Yakupov?

Or Cory Schneider and Kassian for Yakupov?

How about Malcolm Subban and Dougie Hamilton for Yakupov?
1.yes
2.Schneider is good but jury is still out on Kassian
3.Possibly

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10-26-2012, 12:23 PM
  #125
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Really interesting list. There were some suprises there for sure (Peverly, Desharnais)...

but any list showing Hodgson just below Gagner (who has "stagnated" since his first year), isn't the strongest argument with your typical Oiler fan.
Gagner in his fifth season of the NHL, vs. Hodgson in his first.

Hodgson's potential is much higher.

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