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Yakupov

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Old
10-27-2012, 01:53 PM
  #176
rockinghockey
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Sorry meant Clowe on the wing.

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10-27-2012, 02:06 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Habsrback View Post
The icing on the cake is that Collberg (drafted 33rd) is touted by many as the steal of the last draft, and is probably not a large downgrade from Yakupov. Notably, his ethics. maturity, and attitude are said to be proven, which are the risks in Yakupov's case.
Whaaaaaaat?

You say a lot of things.

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10-27-2012, 02:25 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Habsrback View Post
First, let's not overevaluate Yakupov here...he has enormous scoring potential, has a ton of swagger and showmanship...but remains a small sized, concussed winger, with a big question mark on his attitude. He would be popular in MTL but Bergevin would get blasted for making the trade I propose. I was expecting to take a beating from other Habs' fans for proposing this.

Plek, 30, is always in fantastic shape, and is probably one of the top-5 2nd line centers when you consider what he brings to the table both offensively, defensively, and is probably the best center for 5-on-3 PK.

As for Gorges, any of the other 29 teams would go for him...a solid #2 for a mid-pack team, or #4 on a championship-level roster...but an immediate #1 defensively on the Oiler's roster.

Both Plek and Gorges would contribute significantly to bring that young talented team to the next levels.

The icing on the cake is that Collberg (drafted 33rd) is touted by many as the steal of the last draft, and is probably not a large downgrade from Yakupov. Notably, his ethics. maturity, and attitude are said to be proven, which are the risks in Yakupov's case.

Because the Oilers have so much talent (I consider RNH, Hall and Eberle superior to Yakupov today AND tomorrow), this downgrade (Collberg-Yakupov) would not hurt them, and the PLEK and Gorges additions would bring them important long-term pieces that they are missing for a championship roster mix.

The habs on the other hand would be kissing away the next two seasons in order to build a potential championship roster when the Beaulieus, Tinordis and company become NHL-ready.
Where does the question mark on Yakupov's attitude come from. The Oiler's brass love the kid. Stu MacGregor who is known to really value character said of Yakupov before the draft that he is just fun to be around. By all accounts he is an excellent teammate and is very dedicated off the ice.


The trade itself does bring the Oilers a fair bit so it is not at all a bad proposal by HF standards. But it is a big stretch right now to suggest that the downgrade from Yakupov to Colberg is not substantial. I watched Yakupov a fair bit in 2010-2011. He was simply fantastic. His game did slow down somewhat after his injuries last year, but neither should impact his career.

This kid has an absolutely sick release. He has a very good chance of being the best goal scorer out of the Oilers kids. Even though there have been some solid offers in this thread I would still prefer that they keep him and roll with what they have.

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10-27-2012, 02:43 PM
  #179
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Just a quick point about the Leaf's. We are not trading Gardiner ++++ for Yakupov. Also we did not drop any bombs by not taking a center at the draft. We stole a 6'2", potential number one defenseman in the Beauchemin trade and we're not giving him up for an unproven player, despite the talent that Yakupov has. Scoring goals, even in a bottom-five finish, was not a problem for the majority of last season for the Leafs, defense was. Not to mention, #1 defensemen right now are at a serious premium and commanding more of a return that snipers. If Reilly and Gardiner fulfill their potential, Franson comes good and Gunnarsson and Phaneuf form a solid partnership, our defense will be VASLY superior than anything we've had in years.

As for the goalie vs defensemen argument. Detroit won a cup with Lidstrom and Osgood. Ask their fans who was more instrumental.

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10-27-2012, 03:08 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Stu View Post
Just a quick point about the Leaf's. We are not trading Gardiner ++++ for Yakupov. Also we did not drop any bombs by not taking a center at the draft. We stole a 6'2", potential number one defenseman in the Beauchemin trade and we're not giving him up for an unproven player, despite the talent that Yakupov has. Scoring goals, even in a bottom-five finish, was not a problem for the majority of last season for the Leafs, defense was. Not to mention, #1 defensemen right now are at a serious premium and commanding more of a return that snipers. If Reilly and Gardiner fulfill their potential, Franson comes good and Gunnarsson and Phaneuf form a solid partnership, our defense will be VASLY superior than anything we've had in years.

As for the goalie vs defensemen argument. Detroit won a cup with Lidstrom and Osgood. Ask their fans who was more instrumental.
You don't have to worry. The Oilers would not be trading Yakupov for Gardiner.

This is not a shot at Gardiner who I really like. With the play of Schultz and Marincin in the AHL and Klefbom in the SEL I think that the Oilers will be content to let the young dmen in the system show what they have. If anything with the potential career ending injury to Sutton they may want to make a minor move for a 3rd pairing vet if the League starts up again this year.

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10-27-2012, 03:08 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
OEL (Who isn't available for trade). Someone mentioned that earlier in the thread. I'd do that.

Edmonton has a wealth of wingers now and there are tons more that'll be coming up through the farm team over the next few years.

Even if Hemsky and Yakupov left MPS-Gagner-Pitlick could be a very complete second line within the next 2-3 years.
It actually looks like a very gross second line

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10-27-2012, 03:18 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
You don't have to worry. The Oilers would not be trading Yakupov for Gardiner.

This is not a shot at Gardiner who I really like. With the play of Schultz and Marincin in the AHL and Klefbom in the SEL I think that the Oilers will be content to let the young dmen in the system show what they have. If anything with the potential career ending injury to Sutton they may want to make a minor move for a 3rd pairing vet if the League starts up again this year.
Don't have to worry about what? Lets not be condescending.

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10-27-2012, 03:23 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Perspective is everything. Yakupov has 8 points in 9 games and he's lighting it up. His value is sky-rocketing. Ovechkin has 13 points in 12 games and there's a thread on the NHL board about him being a bust. Go figure.
Id say salary plays a role as much as perspective. The guy making 9.5 million a year or whatever crazy number it is should be better then the 18 year old on an ELC.

Half way through posting this realized they wouldnt be making NHL salaries. Anyone know what Yak or Ovie makes inthe KHL?

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10-27-2012, 04:36 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Stu View Post
Don't have to worry about what? Lets not be condescending.
I had no intent to be insulting in any way. You said the Leafs would not want to trade Gardiner. My point was that the Oilers would not likely be interested in him right now if Yakupov was the guy going the other way. Sorry if the way I phrased it made it sound like I was saying anything more.

As I said, I really like Gardiner. The kid can play. He and Schultz have a lot of similarities in their games.

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10-27-2012, 04:39 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Stu View Post
Don't have to worry about what? Lets not be condescending.
Well then maybe tone down the fist pumpin in your post. You make it sound like some huge deal to not be trading Gardiner when Fourier correctly pointed out no one cares because he isnt enough anyways if Yakupov is going the other way and thats why the thread naturally moved on to other offers. Notably the San Jose offer

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10-27-2012, 05:48 PM
  #186
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Oilers are not trading Yakupov for Gardiner. Leafs are not trading Gardiner for Yakupov. Everybody is happy.

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10-28-2012, 09:24 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by oilphan View Post
Oilers are not trading Yakupov for Gardiner. Leafs are not trading Gardiner for Yakupov. Everybody is happy.
If the leafs were lucky they would trade gardiner for yakupov. No chance in hell though.

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10-28-2012, 09:59 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
You keep saying this.... but Yakupov is playing (actually lighting up) the KHL. It is a professional league... I don't think "the minors" is a very fair characterization.
He isn't lighting up the NHL either. There are plenty of players that can light up the KHL and are much less effective playing in the NHL. He is a prospect, not a NHL player. At this point, I'm uncertain he is worth a Ryan Callahan.

Edmonton can keep their top prospect and spare us these threads where Shea Weber isn't worth it because he is overpaid...

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10-28-2012, 12:31 PM
  #189
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Please if Tambo called up Burkie and said I will trade you Yak for Gardiner, Burkie would be all over that.

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10-28-2012, 12:52 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
He isn't lighting up the NHL either. There are plenty of players that can light up the KHL and are much less effective playing in the NHL. He is a prospect, not a NHL player. At this point, I'm uncertain he is worth a Ryan Callahan.

Edmonton can keep their top prospect and spare us these threads where Shea Weber isn't worth it because he is overpaid...
Nobody is an NHL player at this point but Yakupov has been playing very well in the KHL. In fact he's been very impressive and is proving why he was the 1st overall pick.

Who said Edmonton wouldn't trade Yakupov for Weber? Or are you just painting an entire fanbase with your own opinion?

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10-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
He isn't lighting up the NHL either. There are plenty of players that can light up the KHL and are much less effective playing in the NHL. He is a prospect, not a NHL player. At this point, I'm uncertain he is worth a Ryan Callahan.
Morgan Rielly for Ryan Jones?

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10-28-2012, 02:35 PM
  #192
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Subban for Yakupov.

Everyone is happy. Big Subban fan, but the thought of re-uniting Galchy and Yaks is too good to pass up. whatcha think Oilers fans?

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10-28-2012, 02:38 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Perspective is everything. Yakupov has 8 points in 9 games and he's lighting it up. His value is sky-rocketing. Ovechkin has 13 points in 12 games and there's a thread on the NHL board about him being a bust. Go figure.
Context...

Yakupov is a young rookie who is just playing his first few pro games

Ovechkin is a generational talent who used to dominate the best league in the world

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10-28-2012, 02:39 PM
  #194
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Ill say it again... Should of drafted a dman now you guys are going to be stuck trading a quality pick just too even up the bench down the road. Nice Edmonton.
Only terrible teams draft for need at the top of the draft (in every draft sport). It's always BPA or trade out of that spot - the difference in value is too large to take a hit by drafting someone that fits a need better.

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10-28-2012, 02:43 PM
  #195
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MDZ + JT Miller + Oscar Lindberg/Victor Fasth.

Nash-Richards-Yakupov
Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Hagelin-Boyle-Callahan

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10-28-2012, 02:45 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Only terrible teams draft for need at the top of the draft (in every draft sport). It's always BPA or trade out of that spot - the difference in value is too large to take a hit by drafting someone that fits a need better.
A future pairing of Murray/Schultz would have been very good to go along with the top line of the kids.

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10-28-2012, 03:16 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Only terrible teams draft for need at the top of the draft (in every draft sport). It's always BPA or trade out of that spot - the difference in value is too large to take a hit by drafting someone that fits a need better.
I think it's implied that they should have traded down to 3rd or 4th.

Howson stated he wasn't going to add to the 2nd overall to trade up to 1st given he was going for Murray all along and would have traded down had EDM drafted Murray and left Yakupov (I disagree with his assessment, but that's what it was).

Problem is, what young players did Montreal or Toronto have that Edmonton would want? Kadri maybe but beyond that? I don't think Gardiner was going to be traded. I think a young starting goalie currently playing backup (in the realm of Lindback, Neuvirth, Bernier, etc.) would be the target in addition to the 3rd or 4th overall. But neither teams really have a goalie like that.

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10-28-2012, 03:22 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I think it's implied that they should have traded down to 3rd or 4th.

Howson stated he wasn't going to add to the 2nd overall to trade up to 1st given he was going for Murray all along and would have traded down had EDM drafted Murray and left Yakupov (I disagree with his assessment, but that's what it was).

Problem is, what young players did Montreal or Toronto have that Edmonton would want? Kadri maybe but beyond that? I don't think Gardiner was going to be traded. I think a young starting goalie currently playing backup (in the realm of Lindback, Neuvirth, Bernier, etc.) would be the target in addition to the 3rd or 4th overall. But neither teams really have a goalie like that.
That is definitely another way to go, but it's so hard to make a trade like that when such volatile pieces are involved (it's tough to estimate value of undrafted players / prospects). Most GMs shy away from stuff like that, in large part because if it goes south it looks so bad (e.g. Burke/Kessel).

That's pretty crazy that Howson would have left Yakupov and taken Murray. Everything I've read from reputable sources indicated that Yakupov was the unanimous choice for 1st overall. I think that would have been a mistake on both the Oilers and BJ's parts if they had passed on Yakupov.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
A future pairing of Murray/Schultz would have been very good to go along with the top line of the kids.
Championship teams need more than one scoring line. The Oilers don't currently have an elite offense and there's no guarantee they will.

Based upon pre-draft analysis, Yakupov is much more valuable than Murray. It didn't make sense to draft Murray because of need, unless a trade could be made to recoup the value of the 1st overall pick.

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10-28-2012, 03:27 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Perspective is everything. Yakupov has 8 points in 9 games and he's lighting it up. His value is sky-rocketing. Ovechkin has 13 points in 12 games and there's a thread on the NHL board about him being a bust. Go figure.
I think one has a little higher expectations than the other.

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Old
10-28-2012, 03:30 PM
  #200
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A future pairing of Murray/Schultz would have been very good to go along with the top line of the kids.
I think they have high hopes for a Klefbom/Schultz pair in a few years.

IMO, Klefbom is a lot closer to Murray as far as potential than Yakupov is to anything else we had in the system.

To win a cup you need defense and minimum 2 lines of offense, so they chose to take the consensus #1 guy and address defense help another way.

Now it's up to the GM to fix the defense, if he can't we likely will never win.

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