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It's Not About Winning Or Losing. It's About Who Gets The Blame (CBA/Lockout) XVI

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Old
10-25-2012, 09:55 PM
  #276
Cloned
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Originally Posted by Novacane View Post
Maybe this?:
Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull

Is hiring a mediator the next step? "Perhaps," Daly said. "We shall see." #NHL #NHLPA
Honestly, a mediator would be absolutely useless in this case and a total waste of time.

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10-25-2012, 09:56 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Then advocate a better revenue sharing plan, not the hamstringing of 75% of the GMs in the NHL. The players need to take less AND the high-revenue generating teams need to take less.
I have told you my idea.

50/50 sacrifice. Not 50/50 split.
Overall, the business is making money.

So the players side is 1.87 billion.

What is the number that works?

$1.65B?>

So you have .22 billion to go.

110 million in concessions
110 million in revenue sharing.

Match every dollar of concession with one dollar of RS and this becomes an equitable solution.

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10-25-2012, 09:56 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacane View Post
Maybe this?:
Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull

Is hiring a mediator the next step? "Perhaps," Daly said. "We shall see." #NHL #NHLPA
Yeah this might have been a good idea...4 months ago.

This whole thing is so pathetic.

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10-25-2012, 09:56 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by MatthewT View Post
Both sides have way to big of egos to let a mediator resolve this crap
I agree, hell with a mediator. What they need is an arbitrator, a third party that doesn't gain crap to sit down look at both sides and make a deal they have to sign.

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10-25-2012, 09:57 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
What about the cap floor?
That exists because of linkage in the new CBA

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10-25-2012, 09:58 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by MatthewT View Post
Both sides have way to big of egos to let a mediator resolve this crap
Daly has said that the league has talked about getting a mediator. Schneider said that the PA has talked to the league about their interest in a mediator. Seems like both sides aren't opposed to it (after all, they aren't obligated to do anything with the information they get from mediation).

If they bring in a mediator, I shudder to think how long it might take for them to agree on someone.

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10-25-2012, 09:59 PM
  #282
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I'm having a hard time understanding this lockout from the view of certain players.

If the main point of contention is keeping full value for contracts already signed, why would the players with low salaries and/or short contracts be willing to stand firm?

If I'm making under a million dollars for a couple years (probably the majority of players), this lockout, if it continues for the year, will leave a huge impact. For the Ryan Suters and Zach Parises of the world, not so much.

Why are 3rd/4th liners willing to give up a huge portion, if not all, of their current contracts, just to benefit those top-end guys?

If I'm Daniel Carcillo, am I really interested in giving up half of my contract so Zach Parise doesn't lose 8 of his $98 million?

While the stars would be giving up the most in actual dollars, the impact would be quite a bit different. The players are only doing this for the big names and their agents, so why do the other guys care so much? Wouldn't they rather be earning their own paycheques?

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10-25-2012, 10:00 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lost puck View Post
I agree, hell with a mediator. What they need is an arbitrator, a third party that doesn't gain crap to sit down look at both sides and make a deal they have to sign.
Neither side will agree to binding arbitration.

A mediator might be something that helps get the message across to the players: you have more to gain by participating in the negotiations than by moaning in the corner.

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10-25-2012, 10:03 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
I'm having a hard time understanding this lockout from the view of certain players.

If the main point of contention is keeping full value for contracts already signed, why would the players with low salaries and/or short contracts be willing to stand firm?

If I'm making under a million dollars for a couple years (probably the majority of players), this lockout, if it continues for the year, will leave a huge impact. For the Ryan Suters and Zach Parises of the world, not so much.

Why are 3rd/4th liners willing to give up a huge portion, if not all, of their current contracts, just to benefit those top-end guys?

If I'm Daniel Carcillo, am I really interested in giving up half of my contract so Zach Parise doesn't lose 8 of his $98 million?

While the stars would be giving up the most in actual dollars, the impact would be quite a bit different. The players are only doing this for the big names and their agents, so why do the other guys care so much? Wouldn't they rather be earning their own paycheques?
It's about the hardline owners versus the rich players right now.

As the players continue to stone wall the discussions things are getting worse: both sides are going to double down with the few dissenting voices on both sides drowned out by the ever increasing rhetoric

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10-25-2012, 10:04 PM
  #285
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So anyway.. back to the Ryan Miller article...

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10-25-2012, 10:07 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
They used a mediator in 2005. Why not now? Can't hurt
Because it'd be useless imo. It'll just give both sides an excuse to look like they're actually doing something when in the end they'll both reject the mediator's recommendations and the lockout would continue. Huge waste of time imo.

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10-25-2012, 10:12 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You continue to read what you want to read... It gets old explaining this, but I will do it one last time.

The players will go to 50/50 immediately (on all future contracts) if the owners honor the current contracts. The owners don't want anything to do with this offer, because it means actual money out of their pockets and not the player's pockets.

As I said, if you add another 50-60m (with wiggle room to add probably 10-15m more because the PA will push for at least 210) into RS, cut off 7% from all contracts going fwd AND you factor in the floor being artificially lowered, it would take a great amount of incompetence for a team to lose money (save Phoenix, but that is Bettman's mess).

You sign a ten year deal and by the midpoint the bulk of contracts will be at 50%, while the owners who signed the ridiculous long term deals will have to be accountable for their decisions.

Nothing shady here. Just owners being accountable for their past mistakes and having to run their teams in a sound manner.

With pumped up RS, a lower floor and all new contracts at 50%, once again, for the fifth time, the only teams that would lose money would be ones with incompetent mgmt.
The bolded is as far as I need to read. With the lockout and even the most generous projected HRR increase it is mathematically impossible for HRR go to immediately to 50/50 and still pay full contracts. Jiggy, you seem to have gone to Don Fehr's math school.

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10-25-2012, 10:14 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
The bolded is as far as I need to read. With the lockout and even the most generous projected HRR increase it is mathematically impossible for HRR go to immediately to 50/50 and still pay full contracts. Jiggy, you seem to have gone to Don Fehr's math school.
He said 50/50 on future contracts. You seem to have extraordinary selective reading skills.

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10-25-2012, 10:18 PM
  #289
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Quote:
So how does everyone mark 12:01 am ET when NHL's latest deadline passes? This season is death by a thousand cuts. Game deserves better
http://twitter.com/Dave_Stubbs/statu...52286433005568

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Old
10-25-2012, 10:19 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
The bolded is as far as I need to read. With the lockout and even the most generous projected HRR increase it is mathematically impossible for HRR go to immediately to 50/50 and still pay full contracts. Jiggy, you seem to have gone to Don Fehr's math school.
I already explained how this works outside of the cap, by grouping contracts.

Pay attention.

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10-25-2012, 10:24 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
He said 50/50 on future contracts. You seem to have extraordinary selective reading skills.
I know what he said, and it's purposely misleading.

50/50 on future contracts doesn't make the actual split 50/50 for more than 5 years. It's not a 50/50 split and should not be called a 50/50 split.

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10-25-2012, 10:24 PM
  #292
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Once again, I have to wonder, if you're getting upset over an entertainment product, should you perhaps be taking a closer look at your priorities?

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10-25-2012, 10:27 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I already explained how this works outside of the cap, by grouping contracts.

Pay attention.
Oh, don't worry Jiggy, I understand it. I can look past the misdirection and projected HRR growth a and other ******** to see that "50/50 while honoring existing contracts" is a farce.

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10-25-2012, 10:30 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
I agree. The players should just agree to linkage and fiddle with the %age of HRR. There's practically no risk that revenue falls, so they shouldn't fret about the possibility.
The other consideration is that since arbitration and then salary disclosure were added to the mix with free agency, owners on the whole haven't been able to control their spending on players, even with a salary cap. There aren't many guys that don't get what they want from someone when they hit free agency.

The % of revenue to me is a red herring. I'd be worried about the age/tenure for unrestricted free agency, the limits on contract length and who/what counts against the salary cap.

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10-25-2012, 10:31 PM
  #295
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I applaud you Ryan Miller.

People are saying that's the most articulate a player has been about the PA's stance. But here's the thing: This is NOT the PA's stance. The PA's stance is that this is all the league's fault. Miller puts the blame on both sides and names EGOS as the reason why we have no hockey, and that is the most god damn honest truth there is!

I hope Miller can get some support in the rank & file and TRY something.

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Old
10-25-2012, 10:37 PM
  #296
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When Daly says it 'looks like' the 82 schedule is gone we do know it is not, yet. At least at this point.

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10-25-2012, 10:38 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Oh, don't worry Jiggy, I understand it. I can look past the misdirection and projected HRR growth a and other ******** to see that "50/50 while honoring existing contracts" is a farce.
There is nothing misleading here. Not once did I say ALL contracts would be split 50/50. You only want it to sound that way for obvious reasons. This isn't complicated stuff.

You rabble on about owners losing money, but ignore the benefits the small market teams will get right out of the gate. Well run orgs should not be losing money under those types of conditions.

You accused me of deflecting, but you are the one who has it mastered.

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10-25-2012, 11:08 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Some pretty interesting developments in hockey world tonight... stay tuned.

wonder what that's about
Djurgården lost their second straight game in Allsvenskan and it's looking like a return to the SEL might start to get out of reach.

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Old
10-25-2012, 11:10 PM
  #299
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http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov...eline-20111127

It's really following a similar script so far...

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10-25-2012, 11:12 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeD View Post
Ryan Miller shares his frustration:

"If a team needs a goalie, I need to start considering it."

"I think that a deal is there to be made and recent events lead me to believe the NHL is simply testing us,"
So the NHL offers the players a 50-50 split deal that will pay them millions and keep a full 82 game season, and thats testing them?

I'd say the PA is testing the league. They wait and wait for the NHL to make an offer, then when they do, the PA responds with proposals that dont even work off the NHLs deal. That really seems like they are playing a game, since those proposals could have been made previously if they werent going to be working off the NHLs proposal.

Testing indeed. This innocent victim facade is bull ****.

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