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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

It's Not About Winning Or Losing. It's About Who Gets The Blame (CBA/Lockout) XVI

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:47 PM
  #101
TCsmyth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Well, for one, the Oilers are now a money making franchise.
For two, the level of the luxury sharing can be shifted/changed each CBA.

The point is that even with 50-50, two years from now, with the growth pattern we've seen, you're going to have businesses losing money.


Nothing in the owners' proposal fixes that.

So drop linkage. Drop the cap. Drop the floor. Stop forcing owners to lose money.
Bob, you also have to agree that the players don't REALLY want a free market...

They fought hard over the years for pension, per Diem, equipment, facilities, medical care, charter planes, hotel standards, etc.

There is a deal to be had in a business framework whereby you can provide world class working conditions to the employees - world class wages also, and in exchange get world class entertainment (while getting a profitable business model to boot).

Sadly, they can't seem to get there...and we all sit

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:47 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
I thought that was in the players first proposal.
It was.

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:49 PM
  #103
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I am pretty sure Fehr has brainwashed most of those smart high school dropouts into thinking they lost billions in salary in the last CBA. This is utterly bs as the average salary more than doubled since then.

Fehr's last meaningful card is really the Winter Classic now. Meanwhile the poor fans that make sure he gets paid millions a year to screw up the negotiations suffer.

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:52 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You were told this at least three times already...

A majority of contracts under this CBA expire within two years. All contracts going fwd would be at 50%.

If a team can't make money this way, with increased revenue sharing added in, then I call that incompetent mgmt.
So essentially, "continue to loose millions of dollars for the next few years, while the Players continue to rake in their millions, and hope that the league grows enough that you break even in 3 or 4 years."

That sound's like an awesome business plan.

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10-25-2012, 04:53 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
I am pretty sure Fehr has brainwashed most of those smart high school dropouts into thinking they lost billions in salary in the last CBA. This is utterly bs as the average salary more than doubled since then.

Fehr's last meaningful card is really the Winter Classic now. Meanwhile the poor fans that make sure he gets paid millions a year to screw up the negotiations suffer.
This was all lost when it became personal.

A business deal is getting in the way of frothing hatred.

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:56 PM
  #106
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I'm old enough that I don't need hockey anymore. Winters are going to blow, but I can find other things to do.

I hope the League folds, just so I get the pleasure of watching these player brats wax nostalgic about the good old days of the NHL while they're on a 5 hour flight for a road game in Siberia.

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10-25-2012, 04:56 PM
  #107
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I really don't get it. There might be an extra week to quibble over, but after that a full season just isn't feasible. It would have been in everyone's best interest to get 82 games in.

Any lost games at all hurt the players more than the owners. You can argue about principle all you like, but it won't change the numbers. Fehr is supposed to be looking out for the players, I don't see how that is accomplished with his tactics.

Do any of you blatantly pro-PA people have an answer for that? What is the NHLPA endgame? What is a realistic conclusion to this that will maximize the NHLPA's financial well-being, even with an entire lost season?

Let's push aside all these tin-foil hat arguments of the owners hiding money or faking losses or whatever. Using the previous CBA revenue numbers, how do the players recoup their losses?

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10-25-2012, 04:56 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So essentially, "continue to loose millions of dollars for the next few years, while the Players continue to rake in their millions, and hope that the league grows enough that you break even in 3 or 4 years."

That sound's like an awesome business plan.
What did you think they were buying?

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Old
10-25-2012, 04:59 PM
  #109
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They can't even be bothered to meet for a few hours tonight to get an 11th hour deal? PA thinks NHL is just blowing hot air. What a mess, what a joke.

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10-25-2012, 04:59 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Well, for one, the Oilers are now a money making franchise.
For two, the level of the luxury sharing can be shifted/changed each CBA.

The point is that even with 50-50, two years from now, with the growth pattern we've seen, you're going to have businesses losing money.


Nothing in the owners' proposal fixes that.

So drop linkage. Drop the cap. Drop the floor. Stop forcing owners to lose money.
And let's get back to those years where the same team wins the cup 3 years out of 4.
That league where the richest teams can buy a stanley cup.

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10-25-2012, 04:59 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
The irony in this statement is almost too good.
is it? Linkage/salary floor forces teams to lose money. That's a fact.
Nothing about an unlinked salary structure would do that

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10-25-2012, 05:00 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
So the answer is to run the team into the ground?

Those players making minimum wage turn into players asking for a big raise VERY quick.

I am pretty sure the answer to all of this isn't "settle for 30th place"
This is all ok as long as it's his team that signs them. Folks that want the cap eliminated tend to be fans of teams with either large revenue streams or big pocket owners that don't mind overpaying for players.

Most hockey fans want the GMs to compete on a level playing field just like the players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
is it? Linkage/salary floor forces teams to lose money. That's a fact.
Nothing about an unlinked salary structure would do that
One could just as easily say that its the percentage of HRR that the players get that is the problem, and call that a fact.

I happen to think it's a combination of the players getting too big a piece of the revenue pie coupled with insufficient revenue sharing among the partners in the business.

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10-25-2012, 05:00 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
And let's get back to those years where the same team wins the cup 3 years out of 4.
That league where the richest teams can buy a stanley cup.
When was the last time that happened? In the 80s? The Oilers?
Yeah, those were horrible times for hockey

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:01 PM
  #114
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I don't see how the players are willing to lose a season to keeP salaries the same, but they aren't willing to talk a pay cut. Losing a full years salary is worth more than a small pay cut over the duration of their current contracts. Wake up.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:06 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
is it? Linkage/salary floor forces teams to lose money. That's a fact.
Nothing about an unlinked salary structure would do that
Except if revenues grow at a certain rate according to the players designation they then want a cut but if revenues dip the owners are still on the hook. Seems like they want to have their cake and eat it too.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:08 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I don't see how the players are willing to lose a season to keeP salaries the same, but they aren't willing to talk a pay cut. Losing a full years salary is worth more than a small pay cut over the duration of their current contracts. Wake up.
The even darker truth to this is that even if an entire season is lost, they most definitely won't be keeping salaries the same. Which makes their stance even more ludicrous.

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10-25-2012, 05:08 PM
  #117
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I think that whatever the outcome of this FIASCO, the NHLPA needs to be blown up entirely.

Bring back Kelly. Get rid of all the ex-players with agendas who are hanging around - they already get pensions, no need to pay them a salary on top of that. I mean, how many of them have any experience or education relevant to running a business? For God's sake, hire some accountants and economists. The PA has to fight the NHL on a business level. You don't need a ton of ex-players hanging around for that.

The majority of the union has to have more say. There should be a trigger for the membership to force a vote on an offer.

That's all I have for now, but I can't help but thinking that this PA has gotten the players into yet another fine mess, and this time even the owner's stupidity isn't going to get them out of it.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:10 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
is it? Linkage/salary floor forces teams to lose money. That's a fact.
Nothing about an unlinked salary structure would do that
Except for the fact that player salaries would be driven through the roof. Teams with an internal cap would not be able to ice a competitive team which would force contraction due to lost revenue.

You would have a few middle of the pack teams that may be able to make a push once every 10 years while the top of the pack fight it out to see who can be the best of the top 6.

Once again....it would be the worst thing that could happen to the league.

If you want an 15 team league, then by all means, kill the cap. I am sure the NHLPA would love to fire 1/2 their members.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:13 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
The even darker truth to this is that even if an entire season is lost, they most definitely won't be keeping salaries the same. Which makes their stance even more ludicrous.
Furthermore about a 1/4 of the players will likely never play in the NHL again if the lockout lasts a full season.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:13 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
When was the last time that happened? In the 80s? The Oilers?
Yeah, those were horrible times for hockey
There were also 9 less teams back then too. Increasing the odds of repeat winners by a good margin. Completely different leagues and eras. What's so funny?

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:14 PM
  #121
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Furthermore about a 1/4 of the players will likely never play in the NHL again if the lockout lasts a full season.
Is that how many were lost in 04-05?

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10-25-2012, 05:14 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
It's so strange to hear all these people demanding the players take less because that's how business works.
Businesses can simply choose to not spend. If they can't keep up with the Joneses, they shouldn't try.
Salary caps? Salary floors? Damn ridiculous.
Here is how the market works. Owners decide how much they pay their employees. The employees can choose to work for them, or they can choose not to. If the NHLPA think they deserve more money, they should go into the open market and find better employment.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:15 PM
  #123
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Do any of you get annoyed with yourself over how much time you spend on this thread and posting the same general comments over and over again? How bout checking blogs or twitter updates hoping something new will change? It's driving me nuts, and I really don't remember caring THIS much in 04, probably cause I was younger than and didn't fully understand the numbers but knew it was for the good of the game. This is just.....so wrong.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:16 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
It's so strange to hear all these people demanding the players take less because that's how business works.
Businesses can simply choose to not spend. If they can't keep up with the Joneses, they shouldn't try.
Salary caps? Salary floors? Damn ridiculous.
You always manage to give Roger Goodell and the 32 NFL owners a good laugh.

Not to mention its millions of fans.

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10-25-2012, 05:16 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
When was the last time that happened? In the 80s? The Oilers?
Yeah, those were horrible times for hockey
The game has changed juuuuuuuuust a little bit since then.

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