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It's Not About Winning Or Losing. It's About Who Gets The Blame (CBA/Lockout) XVI

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:48 PM
  #151
optimus2861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
Hope the players are happy. Owners 50/50 split proposal being withdrawn.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...eadline-passes
Totally predictable and totally understandable. The 50/50 offer was the league's way of getting the PA to come to the table and thrash out an agreement to save 82 games. Instead the PA effectively spat on it by pounding on the table saying, "We will not take one penny less, not now, not next year, not ever!"

The next league offer will be considerably worse. Fehr is leading the PA over a cliff.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:49 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
Hope the players are happy. Owners 50/50 split proposal being withdrawn.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...eadline-passes
They just don't get the whole "Negotiating in Good Faith thing" If it doesn't include a raise they don't want anything to do with it.

Hope the owners go next for a 55/45 take it or leave it deal.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:51 PM
  #153
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Why don't we take that seven percent and give it all to revenue sharing?

Players don't get that money, but it certainly helps the whole league out.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:51 PM
  #154
Retail1LO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco Fingerhat View Post
That's a little misleading.The offer is being withdrawn because it was built around an 82 game season.
Indeed. But pulling 50-50 still isn't going to make the players happy any more than losing the games to begin with. This is going to go downhill soooooo fast. lol

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:54 PM
  #155
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All these interviews the players are giving make me shake me head. They act as though they can't feed their families with what is being offered. The players are so entitled it's pathetic. I hope we get hockey this year but if we do lose the season then I hope and pray the owners really stick it to them. The players make me so mad.

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Old
10-25-2012, 05:56 PM
  #156
Taco Fingerhat
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Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
Indeed. But pulling 50-50 still isn't going to make the players happy any more than losing the games to begin with. This is going to go downhill soooooo fast. lol
On the plus side, I don't really know how much lower we can go.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:00 PM
  #157
Propane Nightmares
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
All these interviews the players are giving make me shake me head. They act as though they can't feed their families with what is being offered. The players are so entitled it's pathetic. I hope we get hockey this year but if we do lose the season then I hope and pray the owners really stick it to them. The players make me so mad.
The irony is, they're probably losing more money by not having a season than they would if their salaries were rolled back.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:02 PM
  #158
KINGS17
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The NHLPA and Fehr are going to lose this by a couple of touchdowns, at least.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:02 PM
  #159
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At this point I don't see either side getting together for another month.

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10-25-2012, 06:06 PM
  #160
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At this point I don't see either side getting together for another month.
Good. Let the players lie in the bed they made. When they lose another year's salary perhaps a semblance of logic will come.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:08 PM
  #161
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The irony is, they're probably losing more money by not having a season than they would if their salaries were rolled back.
I wonder if the PA has had time to "run the numbers" on that?

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10-25-2012, 06:09 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
The irony is, they're probably losing more money by not having a season than they would if their salaries were rolled back.
That's a reality. And it's money they will NEVER get back. Brad May was talking about this very thing last week. He said although he was a good PA member and supported the union during the last lockout he is still sour about losing that years salary because it is money he lost and never got back. He said that at the end of the day the players need to take a look at what exactly they are fighting for because sooner or later it turns into a losing battle no matter what deal they get. Why can't the players union see this!? Has Fehr really convinced them otherwise or is this just about not letting the owners get the deal they want at whatever cost?... meanwhile, good honest and hard working people are going to lose their jobs and have a terrible winter because of this stupidity and greed. I hope when the game finally gets back on the ice that every fan boo's these players the first time they hit the ice. They all should be ashamed.

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10-25-2012, 06:09 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
All these interviews the players are giving make me shake me head. They act as though they can't feed their families with what is being offered. The players are so entitled it's pathetic. I hope we get hockey this year but if we do lose the season then I hope and pray the owners really stick it to them. The players make me so mad.


Yep. I have lost a lot of respect to the guys that play the sport that I care so much about.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:09 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
The NHLPA and Fehr are going to lose this by a couple of touchdowns, at least.
LOL Indeed. Bare minimum.

You know what's funny? I'm almost more interested in the sport of these sides beating up one another...than I am of the sport itself. Kinda ironic. I love hockey but I'll find other stuff to do in its absence. It'll be fun watching how this unfolds. I just wish you could watch the meetings on TV or something.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:10 PM
  #165
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It amazes me that these hockey players, who are trained practically from the womb on how to handle speaking to the media (by absolutely never presenting a firm opinion on anything), are en masse belligerantly texting, tweeting, and making bellicose statements to anyone who'll listen.

Have they not been TOLD by their PR handlers how bad they come off sounding? In a time when their collective reputation is being thrown into the pit with a horde of slighted hockey fans, NOW is the time they pick to grow personalities? Jesus Christ. If these guys stayed quiet and anonymous, or at least stuck to the non-committal pablum they usually run with, they wouldn't have nearly as large a target on them right now.


Last edited by Fugu: 10-25-2012 at 06:51 PM. Reason: ...
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Old
10-25-2012, 06:14 PM
  #166
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
LOL Indeed. Bare minimum.

You know what's funny? I'm almost more interested in the sport of these sides beating up one another...than I am of the sport itself. Kinda ironic. I love hockey but I'll find other stuff to do in its absence. It'll be fun watching how this unfolds. I just wish you could watch the meetings on TV or something.
The owners' next offer should include the elimination of guaranteed no-cut contracts, seeing as how Fehr wants them to get creative.

The NFL has contracts where a player can be cut, AND a hard salary cap.

The only thing I side with the NHLPA on is the development of a worthwhile revenue sharing plan to maintain a competitive balance and allow the players to retain all of their jobs.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:15 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Helene Elliott ‏@helenenothelen
NBA Commish David Stern on whether he has advised former protege Bettman: "I have a close relationship with Gary. But I would say that(more

Helene Elliott ‏@helenenothelen
the subject of such conversations as we have had is covered by the commissioner-to-commissioner privilege and it wouldn't be (more)

Helene Elliott ‏@helenenothelen
appropriate for me to comment further." End of Stern quote on Bettman
I guess that explains the eerie similarities between the most recent NBA lockout and the current NHL lockout.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:16 PM
  #168
MikeK
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Originally Posted by Ollie Weeks View Post
It amazes me that these hockey players, who are trained practically from the womb on how to handle speaking to the media (by absolutely never presenting a firm opinion on anything), are en masse belligerantly texting, tweeting, twatting and making bellicose statements to anyone who'll listen.

Have they not been TOLD by their PR handlers how bad they come off sounding? In a time when their collective reputation is being thrown into the pit with a horde of slighted hockey fans, NOW is the time they pick to grow personalities? Jesus Christ. If these guys stayed quiet and anonymous, or at least stuck to the non-committal pablum they usually run with, they wouldn't have nearly as large a target on them right now.
I really agree with you on this. I mentioned it a week ago that the players need to shut the hell up because they're almost sinking themselves just simply by the tweets we see. You can tell these players have been privileged their whole lives simply by the thoughts they have.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:17 PM
  #169
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Salary cap is tied to revenue not profit, do you know the difference?
Talking about profit. I wonder whether ownership is taking a hard look at costs in other areas besides player salaries?

Are there dead wood staff salaries that are not pulling their weight.
Are there totally unnecessary positions that could be eliminated?
Are other staff salaries too high and need to be rolled back?
Is there duplication of work.
Are all expenditures monitored and necessary. I've worked in some places that order $5.00 pens when the .12 cents each one will do.

Could LEAN management processes be useful?

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:18 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
Totally predictable and totally understandable. The 50/50 offer was the league's way of getting the PA to come to the table and thrash out an agreement to save 82 games. Instead the PA effectively spat on it by pounding on the table saying, "We will not take one penny less, not now, not next year, not ever!"

The next league offer will be considerably worse. Fehr is leading the PA over a cliff.
The funny thing is everybody knew he would....that's basically why he was brought in. The players made their bed now they get to lie in it.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:18 PM
  #171
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I sure don't see the owners as being the sympathetic interest. Every new contract they want the players to fix their problems by taking less money. And the players have a sense of entitlement that's hard to stomach. So, maybe they deserve each other. All I know is it looks like this is going to go on for a long, long time.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:21 PM
  #172
MikeK
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I sure don't see the owners as being the sympathetic interest. Every new contract they want the players to fix their problems by taking less money. And the players have a sense of entitlement that's hard to stomach. So, maybe they deserve each other. All I know is it looks like this is going to go on for a long, long time.
Sadly I have the same feeling. This just feels wrong and very different from last time around. I fear this season is lost.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:21 PM
  #173
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If I was an owner I'd be negotiating this the exact same way, honestly Fehr and the players are wayyyy out to lunch here.

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10-25-2012, 06:22 PM
  #174
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So I wonder what's the chances the players end up firing Don Fehr before the end of all this? I can't imagine he's going to be willing to negotiate the kind of deal that is inevitably going to be reached.

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Old
10-25-2012, 06:24 PM
  #175
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I don't know the legal manipulations, but what about something like this from the owners...

"Guys, we really screwed up the last CBA. Structurally, we still believe in the cap and the floor - we believe that we need to reset the percentages. Bear in mind, this is not your fault, we collectively bargained the system with you last time.

In light of the fact that you feel what we are proposing is 'draconian', we will have a window of one month where you guys can walk away from your contract. Go to Russia, Finland, Sweden or wherever. At some point we will solve this, and if you want to come back to our league at some point, please know that your former team will retain your rights, and you are free to negotiate your deal under whatever conditions are in place at the time of your return. Keep your signing bonuses...you negotiated them, they are yours"

Would love to see if Johnny Toews got on the first plane to Minsk...I think not

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