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Luke Adam and a young defenseman for a wing prospect

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Old
10-29-2012, 01:49 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
I still thought Ryan and/or Getz made way too much sense before the lockout for a Sabres-Ducks swap...the frame work is definitely there...
Maybe for the Sabres.

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10-29-2012, 01:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Maybe for the Sabres.
The only time it made sense was when Derek Roy/Luke Adam had value and Bobby Ryan was some degree of available. Now, the only centerpieces for that deal on Buffalo's end are Hodgson/Ennis/Grigs and those players just aren't up for grabs.

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10-29-2012, 02:06 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Also, Pysyk's upside is really freakin underrated. His skating was getting compared to Duncan Keith's before the draft. Even if he never puts it all together for a season like Keith did in 09-10, Mark still has the potential to log absurd minutes, shut down top competition and lead his team, and that's pretty much all he's done since being drafted.

Actually, his skating is even better than what I said. More than one comparison to Niedermayer after a quick google. That, with his above average IQ and willingness to play the body and take hits to make plays (even if he isn't a bruiser) is going to be a deadly combination. All of his detractors act like he isn't elite at things and its just not true.
I'm hoping this is what our NHL depth chart will look like in 2-3 years:
(In No particular order)

Myers
McNabb
Pysyk
Sekera
Ehrhoff
Regher (If he regresses too much then another solid defensive defenseman that can take the body)

----

Sulzer
(A bunch of defensive prospects)

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10-29-2012, 02:10 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Also, Pysyk's upside is really freakin underrated. His skating was getting compared to Duncan Keith's before the draft. Even if he never puts it all together for a season like Keith did in 09-10, Mark still has the potential to log absurd minutes, shut down top competition and lead his team, and that's pretty much all he's done since being drafted.

Actually, his skating is even better than what I said. More than one comparison to Niedermayer after a quick google. That, with his above average IQ and willingness to play the body and take hits to make plays (even if he isn't a bruiser) is going to be a deadly combination. All of his detractors act like he isn't elite at things and its just not true.
Agree. Pysyk's skill set probably isn't the sexiest (ie: he doesn't lay big time hits, and he doesn't rush the puck end-to-end by himself), but holy cow is he a smart player. He seems to always know where to be, where to have his stick, and just never looks pressured when he has the puck, which is pretty special for a kid just turning pro in a lockout-enhanced AHL. I see his future being as a minute-logging shutdown defender who can chip in ~30 points (or maybe more? He's exceeded my offensive expectations so far) and play on the 2nd PP unit. I think the future is pretty bright for this kid.

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10-29-2012, 02:15 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Agree. Pysyk's skill set probably isn't the sexiest (ie: he doesn't lay big time hits, and he doesn't rush the puck end-to-end by himself), but holy cow is he a smart player. He seems to always know where to be, where to have his stick, and just never looks pressured when he has the puck, which is pretty special for a kid just turning pro in a lockout-enhanced AHL. I see his future being as a minute-logging shutdown defender who can chip in ~30 points (or maybe more? He's exceeded my offensive expectations so far) and play on the 2nd PP unit. I think the future is pretty bright for this kid.
I'm extremely excited for him and McNabb. Pysyk has top pairing potential. McNabb also has a good ceiling. Both of them have both looked great in pro hockey play. Hopefully their success continues!

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10-29-2012, 02:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Do we even have organizational depth where Pysyk is going to slot in, though? He's the best defensive prospect in the pipeline by leaps and bounds, and Ruff still hasn't made up his mind on what he wants Myers to be. Going by last season, Regehr-Sekera will be the shutdown tandem, and depending on how Regehr ages/Myers progresses, that pairing might need fresh blood sooner rather than later.
Myers, Sekera, Ehrhoff are all in our top 4 longterm. I see McNabb as a future top 4 guy as well. We've also got Leopold, Sulzer, and Weber for now. I think JGL, Brennan, and Mccabe will all be NHL defenseman at some point, odds are one will develop into a top 4 D-man. Hell I won't even count out a guy like Schiestel yet who could very well be an nhl defenseman. We have plenty of very good defensive prospects and very few quality LW prospects. So with that in mind I'd trade Pysyk for Nyqvist and fill a future potential need.

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10-29-2012, 02:48 PM
  #32
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Pysyk is the best defensive defenseman - and possibly player - in the system right now. None of the prospects you listed have "NHL shutdown defenseman" in their realistic development path. Trading Pysyk means you are 100% certain Myers is capable of putting together a full season as a shutdown defenseman again and that Sekera maintains his levels from the last two years.

You're also assuming McNabb is a surefire top 4 d, despite the fact that Pysyk has been evaluated higher head-to-head and comparatively these past three years.

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10-29-2012, 03:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Pysyk is the best defensive defenseman - and possibly player - in the system right now. None of the prospects you listed have "NHL shutdown defenseman" in their realistic development path. Trading Pysyk means you are 100% certain Myers is capable of putting together a full season as a shutdown defenseman again and that Sekera maintains his levels from the last two years.

You're also assuming McNabb is a surefire top 4 d, despite the fact that Pysyk has been evaluated higher head-to-head and comparatively these past three years.
Not sure where your getting these evaluations that rate Pysyk higher then McNabb. On HF boards team prospect ratings McNabb is rated higher and McNabb was voted the better prospect in the sabres forum. Also our best prospect in the system is Grigorenko and I really don't think you'd find too many people who would argue with that. With that said I do agree that Pysyk's skill set is very different then the other defensive prospects we have, which is why I wouldn't take trading him lightly. Nyqvist would be a fantastic addition to our prospect pool and would fill an area of need at LW.

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10-29-2012, 04:00 PM
  #34
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Look at how they each performed at WJC camps. McNabb got one invite in his last year of Junior eligibility and was in the first group cut. At that same camp, Pysyk was in the last round of cuts, then made the team with ease the next season.

Prospect rankings don't matter as much because they credit McNabb for A) playing extremely well in the AHL and B) looking as passable as a prospect can without earning a job in the NHL, two things Pysyk hasn't had the opportunity to do (even though he seems to be outplaying McNabb in Rochester by most accounts. Also, I wish the AHL had TOI breakdowns to get a better idea of who's actually getting certain responsibilites).

McNabb, for all his flash and physicality, has holes at actually playing defense that Pysyk doesn't, and considering the lack of any elite shutdown players on the Sabres, I will wait on the guy with that level of upside over the one without 100 times out of 100.

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10-29-2012, 04:13 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Also, Pysyk's upside is really freakin underrated. His skating was getting compared to Duncan Keith's before the draft. Even if he never puts it all together for a season like Keith did in 09-10, Mark still has the potential to log absurd minutes, shut down top competition and lead his team, and that's pretty much all he's done since being drafted.

Actually, his skating is even better than what I said. More than one comparison to Niedermayer after a quick google. That, with his above average IQ and willingness to play the body and take hits to make plays (even if he isn't a bruiser) is going to be a deadly combination. All of his detractors act like he isn't elite at things and it's just not true.
I like Pysyk, one of my favorite picks out of that draft. You are making him sound like Bobby Orr though.

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10-29-2012, 04:27 PM
  #36
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I don't get how I'm making him sound like Orr, especially when I've consistently said that I don't see him putting together his offense at the same level as guys like Keith, much less Niedermayer.

I've consistently called him a defensive defenseman with elite skating and above average decision making, with comparatively little of the size/ability to handle physical play question marks that come with most players with that skillset, which is what he is.

What I've been trying to underscore, is his importance to Buffalo despite their bounty of other young blueliners, because he's by leaps and bounds the best defensive defenseman in the system, in an organization that might sorely need them soon depending on how Regehr ages and Myers develops.

He's just not worth moving unless it's in a blockbuster deal for clear upgrades at the NHL level.

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10-29-2012, 05:46 PM
  #37
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Adam and Brennan for Kucherov Brennan red hot right now.

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10-29-2012, 06:34 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Not sure where your getting these evaluations that rate Pysyk higher then McNabb. On HF boards team prospect ratings McNabb is rated higher and McNabb was voted the better prospect in the sabres forum. Also our best prospect in the system is Grigorenko and I really don't think you'd find too many people who would argue with that. With that said I do agree that Pysyk's skill set is very different then the other defensive prospects we have, which is why I wouldn't take trading him lightly. Nyqvist would be a fantastic addition to our prospect pool and would fill an area of need at LW.
That's because 1) McNabb had been playing pro hockey and doing pretty well at it, while Pysyk hadn't yet had the opportunity, and 2) because his skill set is flashier. I love what McNabb brings, and we do need a player like him, but he's not even remotely close to being as good defensively as Pysyk. McNabb is really physical, which is awesome, but he regularly takes himself out of position to make hits, sometimes (much more frequently than Pysyk) makes poor decisions with the puck in his own end, and doesn't skate anywhere near as well as Pysyk does. I'd rather keep them both, but I'd sooner trade McNabb than Pysyk, tbh. Smart defender who can skate > offensive defender who can hit.

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10-29-2012, 06:34 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Look at how they each performed at WJC camps. McNabb got one invite in his last year of Junior eligibility and was in the first group cut. At that same camp, Pysyk was in the last round of cuts, then made the team with ease the next season.

Prospect rankings don't matter as much because they credit McNabb for A) playing extremely well in the AHL and B) looking as passable as a prospect can without earning a job in the NHL, two things Pysyk hasn't had the opportunity to do (even though he seems to be outplaying McNabb in Rochester by most accounts. Also, I wish the AHL had TOI breakdowns to get a better idea of who's actually getting certain responsibilites).

McNabb, for all his flash and physicality, has holes at actually playing defense that Pysyk doesn't, and considering the lack of any elite shutdown players on the Sabres, I will wait on the guy with that level of upside over the one without 100 times out of 100.
McNabb not making the team has much more to do with our depth at defense as well as there desire not to rush McNabb to the NHL too quickly. Calling him passable as a prospect without earning a job in the NHL is insulting to just how good his game has been. As far as him being outplayed by Pysyk it's been 8 games, let's give it some time. Daniel Paille was the captain of team Canada several years back does that make him a better player then any number of other young players who didn't make the team; and gone on to have great nhl careers? A lot of kid's develop at different rates and believe it or not sometimes they make mistakes on the kids they name to the teams and who they pass over.

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10-29-2012, 09:11 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
That's because 1) McNabb had been playing pro hockey and doing pretty well at it, while Pysyk hadn't yet had the opportunity, and 2) because his skill set is flashier. I love what McNabb brings, and we do need a player like him, but he's not even remotely close to being as good defensively as Pysyk. McNabb is really physical, which is awesome, but he regularly takes himself out of position to make hits, sometimes (much more frequently than Pysyk) makes poor decisions with the puck in his own end, and doesn't skate anywhere near as well as Pysyk does. I'd rather keep them both, but I'd sooner trade McNabb than Pysyk, tbh. Smart defender who can skate > offensive defender who can hit.
When comparing Pysyk and McNabb it's really comparing apples and oranges as you've pretty much laid out already. Pysyk has fantastic mobility and great hockey sense, the only player I can think of as remotely comparable to him is Sekera. With McNabb he's a big hitter with offensive prowess, and I can't think of a single player the sabres have that has his skill set (maybe Myers if he puts his whole game together). So with those things in mind I prefer to keep McNabb. I'm not trying to downplay what a fantastic prospect Pysyk is, I simply don't rank him higher then McNabb at this point. This could change of course because as I've said Pysyk has only played 8 games as a pro.

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10-29-2012, 09:27 PM
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St. Louis has a lot of prospects on the wing.

Luke Adam would be a good fit in the Blues' organization as a big body who can play center, and if one of the d-prospects Buffalo would trade is a lefty (McNabb?), that's also right up the Blues' alley.

Tarasenko is off the table, but I'd listen to proposals involving any other Blues' wing prospect(s) for a package including Adam and a LH d-prospect from Buffalo.

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10-29-2012, 10:07 PM
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St. Louis has a lot of prospects on the wing.

Luke Adam would be a good fit in the Blues' organization as a big body who can play center, and if one of the d-prospects Buffalo would trade is a lefty (McNabb?), that's also right up the Blues' alley.

Tarasenko is off the table, but I'd listen to proposals involving any other Blues' wing prospect(s) for a package including Adam and a LH d-prospect from Buffalo.
How does Luke Adam and TJ Brennan for Ty Rattie and a low pick/low end prospect sound?

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10-29-2012, 10:42 PM
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St. Louis has a lot of prospects on the wing.

Luke Adam would be a good fit in the Blues' organization as a big body who can play center, and if one of the d-prospects Buffalo would trade is a lefty (McNabb?), that's also right up the Blues' alley.

Tarasenko is off the table, but I'd listen to proposals involving any other Blues' wing prospect(s) for a package including Adam and a LH d-prospect from Buffalo.
lol gimme Oshie...

I'd overpay for Oshie

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10-29-2012, 11:06 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
St. Louis has a lot of prospects on the wing.

Luke Adam would be a good fit in the Blues' organization as a big body who can play center, and if one of the d-prospects Buffalo would trade is a lefty (McNabb?), that's also right up the Blues' alley.

Tarasenko is off the table, but I'd listen to proposals involving any other Blues' wing prospect(s) for a package including Adam and a LH d-prospect from Buffalo.
McNabb, Adam, + for Jaden Schwartz. Any interest?


Last edited by is the answer jesus: 10-29-2012 at 11:24 PM. Reason: had a 2nd rounder, but figured more would be required
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10-30-2012, 01:02 AM
  #45
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At the moment Regehr is the only good physical defenseman we have on a team that's not very physical. McNabb is too important to be shipped off for a prospect. Pysyk tracks to be a Sekera type player which we already have (in Sekera) so if anyone gets moved I'm much more opposed to it being McNabb. Pysyk is a very good d-prospect but IMO Sekera is a hugely underrated defenseman and he won't be giving up his spot in the lineup anytime soon.

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10-30-2012, 01:20 AM
  #46
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Pysyk is a righty, we wouldn't have to. And realistically, McNabb has nowhere near Regehr's defensive upside. Too much of a risk taker, not enough hockey sense. It's not a matter of physicality, it's a matter of Pysyk being flat out better at preventing goals.

And again, I wouldn't trade either to retool the prospect pool, only for legitimate, mid-to-long-term NHL upgrades.

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10-30-2012, 01:30 AM
  #47
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Firstly McNabb is by no means a defensive slouch.

Second we have tried the soft skill route before and all it got us was the knowledge that we needed more physicality. Myers, Erhroff, Sekera is already a very skilled but soft d-core. McNabb's hitting ability is deaparatly needed in the top 4.

Third, you are absolutely correct that left wing depth is no reason to move either of those two defenseman.

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10-30-2012, 01:47 AM
  #48
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I still thought Ryan and/or Getz made way too much sense before the lockout for a Sabres-Ducks swap...the frame work is definitely there...
Moving Getzlaf makes zero sense for Anaheim. At all.

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10-30-2012, 10:53 AM
  #49
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I think the Sabres will be watching Matt Mackenzie very closely. If he grows into an NHL capable defenseman, one of the d-prospects may become available, similar to how Foligno's emergence allowed Kassian to become available. Unfortunately, it looks like we have plenty of time to evaluate.

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10-30-2012, 02:48 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by lifeisruff View Post
How does Luke Adam and TJ Brennan for Ty Rattie and a low pick/low end prospect sound?
That's a sound basis for discussion, as far as I'm concerned... if I'm trading Rattie, I am making damn sure he goes to an Eastern Conference team where my team does not have to face him more than once or twice every couple of years.

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