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P. Kane for OEL

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Old
10-27-2012, 11:46 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
OEL is already the #1 on a top 4 team in the league...

Just because Kane was picked 1st overall, it doesnt mean he is a franchise player. He simply does not produce enough offense to be a franchise player. His overall game is lacking as well, which greatly diminishes his overall value.
1) Is OEL already considered Phoenix's No. 1? I'd think Yandle still holds that title.
2) Phoenix isn't a top-4 team in the league any more than the Devils are the second best.

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10-27-2012, 11:47 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
1) Is OEL already considered Phoenix's No. 1? I'd think Yandle still holds that title.
2) Phoenix isn't a top-4 team in the league any more than the Devils are the second best.
1) yes, ask Phx fans
2) he was #1 on a top 4 team last year, he is capable of it

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10-27-2012, 11:53 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Chicago loses a ton of their dynamic element with the hypothetical departure of Kane. And please don't try and suggest OEL adds more of that than Kane's leaving gives up

People clearly have forgotten how good Kane is.
You keep thinking I'm downgrading Kane, and I'm truly not. I know what the kid brings on the ice. He's a damn good player. That being said, there are very few players like OEL in the NHL right now. Defense come with higher value, too.

I would say both teams stand pat and do not make this trade. And that's okay. Just because a proposal was made doesn't mean either team has to take the deal.

If I'm sitting in Phoenix and working as their GM... I'm not taking offers on OEL unless it's an absurd amount. Kane's not that absurd amount to me when I could move Yandle and get something very similar.

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10-27-2012, 11:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You keep thinking I'm downgrading Kane, and I'm truly not. I know what the kid brings on the ice. He's a damn good player. That being said, there are very few players like OEL in the NHL right now. Defense come with higher value, too.
You are downgrading Kane by implying that - between him and OEL - only the latter deserves the label of "very few players like [him] in the NHL right now."

It may not be intentional, but you are doing it nonetheless.

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10-27-2012, 11:57 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
1) yes, ask Phx fans
2) he was #1 on a top 4 team last year, he is capable of it
I still say it's Yandle FWIW. Though It's definitely close.

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10-27-2012, 11:58 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
You are downgrading Kane by implying that - between him and OEL - only the latter deserves the label of "very few players like [him] in the NHL right now."

It may not be intentional, but you are doing it nonetheless.
Yeah.. I still don't see how that is downgrading him. Because I won't accept the trade? There are tons of trades across the league where value matches up but it's just not worth it.

I will say it again - the main reason to not make this trade is because how rare of a player OEL is AND the fact they can move Yandle if need be to find that big time winger.

At that point, there is no downgrading Kane. I'm just sharing how important I feel OEL is to any team in the NHL.

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10-27-2012, 11:59 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
I still say it's Yandle FWIW. Though It's definitely close.
OEL played 26 min/game in the playoffs, Yandle played 21:30. I'd say it's OEL.

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10-28-2012, 12:02 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I didn't say OEL was top 10 now. But he will be.

Kane is the 4th best forward on his team.

He is all offense, no defense. And he only had 66 points last year. Based on last year, average 1st liner is generous. Now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he isn't as bad as he showed last year. Average 1st liner.
Haha. Kane isn't better than Sharp? Give me a break.

Your logic is awful. Because Kane isn't as good as Toews or Hossa (the latter is quite arguable) - two top-15 forwards in this league - he's an average first liner?

Let's not put down Kane because the Hawks have one of the best top-4 forward sets in the NHL. That would be pretty stupid.


Yes, he had 66 points in a year where he played 50 games at a completely different position, every game with a lingering wrist injury in his dominant hand, a ton of his time with the master slug of all slugs Brunette, and in general constantly changing linemates...
Seems fair to judge him on one rough season. Not like he put up 70+ points every year prior, including an 88 point season and playoff performance on par with his teammate who won the Conn Smythe.

Nah, he's not even as valuable as the king of potential, Oliver Ekman-Larsson. Just an average first liner, nothing special.

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10-28-2012, 12:03 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
OEL played 26 min/game in the playoffs, Yandle played 21:30. I'd say it's OEL.
Yandle had a down year. OEL played great the last 3 months and was solid before that. I'm not knocking out 2 years of Yandle's excellent play just for that.

OEL can have the crown if he continues his progress, or if Yandle's down year is more than just a year.

Besides you are the one who said to ask Phoenix fans

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10-28-2012, 12:04 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
OEL played 26 min/game in the playoffs, Yandle played 21:30. I'd say it's OEL.
Step 1) Ask for Phoenix fans' opinion to prove your point.
Step 2) Tell them their wrong when they disagree with you.

OEL is great, and could very likely be worth more than Kane in a season or two. But right now Kane is more valuable. But neither team goes through with the deal.

Also, I'd rather have OEL than Kane on my team, simply beacuse I think he will be better, but right now Kane is definitely more valuable.

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10-28-2012, 12:06 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Haha. Kane isn't better than Sharp? Give me a break.

Your logic is awful. Because Kane isn't as good as Toews or Hossa (the latter is quite arguable) - two top-15 forwards in this league - he's an average first liner?

Let's not put down Kane because the Hawks have one of the best top-4 forward sets in the NHL. That would be pretty stupid.


Yes, he had 66 points in a year where he played 50 games at a completely different position, every game with a lingering wrist injury in his dominant hand, a ton of his time with the master slug of all slugs Brunette, and in general constantly changing linemates...
Seems fair to judge him on one rough season. Not like he put up 70+ points every year prior, including an 88 point season and playoff performance on par with his teammate who won the Conn Smythe.

Nah, he's not even as valuable as the king of potential, Oliver Ekman-Larsson. Just an average first liner, nothing special.
Most Hawks say he was GOOD at centre.

Lingering wrist injury... all players have injuries

OEL played 26 min per game on a top 4 team in the league. His potential is higher than that, he is far from peaking.

Kane is not a top 20 forward in the league. OEL is a top 20 D with loads more potential. The value is not close.

Yes Sharp is better.

70 points is no big deal. Not a franchise player, not even close.

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10-28-2012, 12:10 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Step 1) Ask for Phoenix fans' opinion to prove your point.
Step 2) Tell them their wrong when they disagree with you.

OEL is great, and could very likely be worth more than Kane in a season or two. But right now Kane is more valuable. But neither team goes through with the deal.

Also, I'd rather have OEL than Kane on my team, simply beacuse I think he will be better, but right now Kane is definitely more valuable.
He admitted that OEL was better last year, and Yandle had an off year. I'm not wrong, OEL was in fact the #1. When one guy plays almost 5 min more than next, how can you actually say that I'm wrong.

Also Yandle plays a purely offensive role. Maybe we just have a different definition of #1. The #1 should be an all around player, the one that plays most minutes.

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10-28-2012, 12:11 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Most Hawks say he was GOOD at centre.

Lingering wrist injury... all players have injuries

OEL played 26 min per game on a top 4 team in the league. His potential is higher than that, he is far from peaking.

Kane is not a top 20 forward in the league. OEL is a top 20 D with loads more potential. The value is not close.

Yes Sharp is better.

70 points is no big deal. Not a franchise player, not even close.
Name me 20 forwards better than Kane, then.

And no, most Hawk fans don't say that.

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10-28-2012, 12:14 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Name me 20 forwards better than Kane, then.

And no, most Hawk fans don't say that.
Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Spezza
Giroux
Toews
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Sedin
Sedin
Tavares
Gaborik
Thornton
Perry
Benn
Hossa
Sharp
Bergeron
Kopitar
Getzlaf
Backstrom

should I go on?

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10-28-2012, 12:16 AM
  #115
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Too be fair there are a lot more forwards than defensemen...It would make more sense to compare Kane against wingers as well.

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10-28-2012, 12:19 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Spezza
Giroux
Toews
Datsyuk
Sedin
Sedin
Tavares
Hossa
Kopitar

should I go on?
Odd, I spot 12 forwards better than Kane, not 20.

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10-28-2012, 12:21 AM
  #117
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MAK left out some guys like Ovechkin and MSL who I would say are also better. Also Perry should still be on there.

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10-28-2012, 12:24 AM
  #118
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Odd, I spot 12 forwards better than Kane, not 20.
Just for example, how is Kane even close to Thornton at the moment?

Bergeron produced as much offense as Kane, with Selke defense. Kane obviously not close to Selke defense. Bergeron centered the best two-way line in hockey last year, and he was the main piece that made it work.

I didn't even mention Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Koivu, Ryan, Parise, Backes, Kesler, Eberle, St. Louis, Staal, Staal and more

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10-28-2012, 12:25 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
MAK left out some guys like Ovechkin and MSL who I would say are also better. Also Perry should still be on there.
Can grant those two, although MSL looks to have taken a bit of a step back.

People seem keen on overrating Perry for one huge year, just as they are keen on underrating Kane for one bad year. I don't buy it.

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10-28-2012, 12:26 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Just for example, how is Kane even close to Thornton at the moment?

Bergeron produced as much offense as Kane, with Selke defense. Kane obviously not close to Selke defense. Bergeron centered the best two-way line in hockey last year, and he was the main piece that made it work.

I didn't even mention Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Koivu, Ryan, Parise, Backes, Kesler, Eberle, St. Louis, Staal, Staal and more
Koivu? Ryan? Backes? Kesler? Eberle? Jordan freaking Staal??

Lol, this site claims to have the most knowledgeable hockey fans. Funny joke.

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10-28-2012, 12:30 AM
  #121
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Koivu? Ryan? Backes? Kesler? Eberle? Jordan freaking Staal??

Lol, this site claims to have the most knowledgeable hockey fans. Funny joke.
Ryan is about on par, but scores more goals. Eberle was the 3rd most productive player in the league in terms of points per ice time, behind you guessed it, Crosby and Malkin.

Koivu is a 70 point player, just like Kane, and a terrific defensive player.

Backes is the #1 forward on a BETTER team than Chicago.

Staal is a 60-70 point forward with Selke caliber defense.

The overrating of Kane is absolutely insane. And for what?? One good season?

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10-28-2012, 12:31 AM
  #122
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...t=top+forwards

FWIW. Kane's just outside the top 20, which is where I'd probably put him with respect to all forwards.

Wingers he's definitely top 10.

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10-28-2012, 12:32 AM
  #123
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But really, anyone who calls Patrick Kane an "average first line forward" has already lost their credibility.

"What have you done for me lately" indeed. Didn't realize it was quite this extreme.

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10-28-2012, 12:34 AM
  #124
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Kesler struggled with injuries this season. Before that, 70+ point player. Like Kane. Difference is Kesler did it while winning a Selke.

How in the world is Kane better than this? How in the world? Just because he looks more skilled with the puck, it doesn't mean he's a better player.

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10-28-2012, 12:36 AM
  #125
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But really, anyone who calls Patrick Kane an "average first line forward" has already lost their credibility.

"What have you done for me lately" indeed. Didn't realize it was quite this extreme.
Kane had one good season. ONE. It's not what have you done for me lately. Kane has not been a consistent producer, and doesn't bring anything else to the table other than production. Forgive me for not buying into him being a superstar.

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