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No More Lockout Blues! - 2012 Lockout Part 2 [UPD: AGREEMENT REACHED!]

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12-07-2012, 01:53 PM
  #551
Holden Caulfield
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Question. With a lost season, what happens to the 2013 draft? I assume there's a lottery and draft, but anywhere u look, people seem to think there is no draft if there's no cba. Didn't stop 2005 draft, so I'm assuming won't stop 2013. Has anyone seen anything solid on this?
Actually, it did stop the 2005 draft. It was supposed to take place on June 25th, 2005 at Corel Centre in Ottawa. Since the league was still locked out, it was scrapped.

A new CBA deal was signed on July 21st, 2005. The league held the lottery on July 22nd, with the draft taking place at the Westin Hotel in Ottawa on July 30th, not open to the public unlike normal.

You cannot legally hold a draft without a CBA in place. It's one of those things that can be considered illegal with a CBA protecting it.

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12-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #552
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I'm booing hainsey if/when he comes back

any of you guys have an opinion

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12-07-2012, 02:27 PM
  #553
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I don't boo my own team.

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Old
12-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
I'm booing hainsey if/when he comes back

any of you guys have an opinion
I won't.
I disagree with him, but I respect his right to fight for his rights as an employee.
It's not any individual player that is responsible for the lock out.
In a twisted, morbid way I've gained respect for Ron.
Like I said, I firmly disagree with him and the players. But he's committed to his side, and is willing to sacrifice for what he believes in a worth while cause. I think it's misguided but commendable.

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Old
12-07-2012, 02:35 PM
  #555
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If I was a player I wouldn't tweet anything related to the lockout, but I don't have a problem with the players supporting their side. They've gone this far with the PA, they can't just turn back now without throwing the rest of the players under the bus.

They should all just avoid tweeting about the issue, but I can understand how they would want to tweet about it. They probably get 1000s of tweets a day about their opinion on the lockout.
I absolutely agree with you. It's important to them and Twitter is the vessel to deliver the message. I just don't want to hear it

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12-07-2012, 02:59 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
I'm booing hainsey if/when he comes back

any of you guys have an opinion
Makes 2 of us.

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12-07-2012, 03:06 PM
  #557
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Maybe i'm just really pissed off right now

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12-07-2012, 03:09 PM
  #558
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It's understandable, his face is all over TSN lately and he does have a cocky looking face.

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12-07-2012, 03:14 PM
  #559
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His upcoming union job better pay well if he misses all this year , it may be the last year he is in the NHL and that big multi multi million dollar paycheck he is not getting this year won't be replaced.

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12-07-2012, 03:19 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Actually, it did stop the 2005 draft. It was supposed to take place on June 25th, 2005 at Corel Centre in Ottawa. Since the league was still locked out, it was scrapped.

A new CBA deal was signed on July 21st, 2005. The league held the lottery on July 22nd, with the draft taking place at the Westin Hotel in Ottawa on July 30th, not open to the public unlike normal.

You cannot legally hold a draft without a CBA in place. It's one of those things that can be considered illegal with a CBA protecting it.
Thanks. Good to know. I guess I could have looked that up. Geesh.

So follow-up question, if the lockout hypothetically goes until Nov 2013. Would there be a 2013 draft in Nov 2013?

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12-07-2012, 03:23 PM
  #561
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I just wish everyone would shut up until a deal is done. Stop trying to win over the fans and get the game back on the ice where it belongs.

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12-07-2012, 03:25 PM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
I'm booing hainsey if/when he comes back

any of you guys have an opinion
Not a big fan of Hainsey, never have been. Don't think he's that great a player.

But I won't boo him - but I will be glad to see him leave town in a trade or FA. He's very replaceable. Imo.

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12-07-2012, 03:33 PM
  #563
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Won't boo Hainsey or any of the other guys. Maybe a few of the opposing players based on some tweets but part of me hopes those guys are out of the league by the time this is resolved. Petty on my part, I know.

I don't think I'll be able to go to the home opener regardless. I'd rather wait for a few games to let my frustration subside over this because I'd just want to sit there and not clap or cheer. And then the second period would come around and I'd feel shame for cheering everything our guys did.

Thankfully most of the Jets have been pretty silent. A little frustrated with some of the stuff Ladd says but only because I'm more supportive of the other side. I don't think he's been unreasonable or embarrassing at all, very level headed for the most part presenting his side.

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12-07-2012, 03:33 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
His upcoming union job better pay well if he misses all this year , it may be the last year he is in the NHL and that big multi multi million dollar paycheck he is not getting this year won't be replaced.
He will never again get 4 million per season, but there is almost no way I can see him not being in the NHL...he is a solid #4 D, hell I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he is re-signed by Winnipeg this off-season, we don't have much ready in the system on the blueline (specifically LHD), unless the Jets are willing to go with Kulda and convince him to come back to North America next year. Either way, Hainsey will continue in the NHL.

Love them or hate them, unions have the right to defend themselves. Twitter is making some players look a little foolish, but Hainsey has been very professional and is stepping up to lead the union. I am not sure why all the hate. The union has a job to do, hell with Hainsey and crew in there they seemed to make lots of progress. And what he says is true, the players employ Fehr for a reason. Hate the guy all you want (I know I do), but for the players this is his job, they cannot go around him for something crucial like this, this is why he is getting paid.

I know public opinion has swung full tilt around to the NHL's side with this latest fiasco, but you do have to look at it from the players eyes. They are not professional negotiators, lawyers, businessmen. There are plenty of smart players, but they lack the experience and specific knowledge base for a negotiation like this. That's why they bring in a guy like Fehr, and why they listen to him. It's his job, he has the experience. If mid-lockout they turn on their guy will hurt them WAY more than even sitting it out and following Fehr to making a mistake.

Never underestimate, the NHL will press weakness, they certainly did last lockout (anybody remember that the 24% rollback was a union idea, contingent on the absence of a salary cap...the owners then rolled that nice tid bit into every subsequent offer, including those with caps). Both sides are pretty entrenched right now. The NHL has moved plenty from several last offers, it might be biting them right now (union thinks NHL will keep moving) and not all that much is lost from now until mid-january. I think around jan 8-12 you'll see a deal signed similiar to the deals we are seeing right now. The NHL will refuse to keep moving, the union will try to outlast them and suck a little more out of the NHL, at the drop dead date the PA will sign. IMHO.

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Old
12-07-2012, 03:34 PM
  #565
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Makes 2 of us.
What if he nets 6 goals in the first game back?

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12-07-2012, 03:36 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Thanks. Good to know. I guess I could have looked that up. Geesh.

So follow-up question, if the lockout hypothetically goes until Nov 2013. Would there be a 2013 draft in Nov 2013?
That would be negotiated into the CBA.

My (complete) guess would be they would hold the draft immediately, as you said.

That'd be interesting, what a mess of a few days that would be. Holding the draft in the middle of the TC probably, all of the sudden the top 5-10 picks (who if CHL would have started their season already) would probably be tossed into a TC halfway through, it would be nuts, that's for sure.

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12-07-2012, 03:48 PM
  #567
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Well the reason I want to is I cant actually boo fehr, so hainsey is the next best thing


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12-07-2012, 03:49 PM
  #568
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What if he nets 6 goals in the first game back?
In that case I may have to temper my boos.

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12-07-2012, 03:52 PM
  #569
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He will never again get 4 million per season, but there is almost no way I can see him not being in the NHL...he is a solid #4 D, hell I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he is re-signed by Winnipeg this off-season, we don't have much ready in the system on the blueline (specifically LHD), unless the Jets are willing to go with Kulda and convince him to come back to North America next year. Either way, Hainsey will continue in the NHL.

Love them or hate them, unions have the right to defend themselves. Twitter is making some players look a little foolish, but Hainsey has been very professional and is stepping up to lead the union. I am not sure why all the hate. The union has a job to do, hell with Hainsey and crew in there they seemed to make lots of progress. And what he says is true, the players employ Fehr for a reason. Hate the guy all you want (I know I do), but for the players this is his job, they cannot go around him for something crucial like this, this is why he is getting paid.

I know public opinion has swung full tilt around to the NHL's side with this latest fiasco, but you do have to look at it from the players eyes. They are not professional negotiators, lawyers, businessmen. There are plenty of smart players, but they lack the experience and specific knowledge base for a negotiation like this. That's why they bring in a guy like Fehr, and why they listen to him. It's his job, he has the experience. If mid-lockout they turn on their guy will hurt them WAY more than even sitting it out and following Fehr to making a mistake.

Never underestimate, the NHL will press weakness, they certainly did last lockout (anybody remember that the 24% rollback was a union idea, contingent on the absence of a salary cap...the owners then rolled that nice tid bit into every subsequent offer, including those with caps). Both sides are pretty entrenched right now. The NHL has moved plenty from several last offers, it might be biting them right now (union thinks NHL will keep moving) and not all that much is lost from now until mid-january. I think around jan 8-12 you'll see a deal signed similiar to the deals we are seeing right now. The NHL will refuse to keep moving, the union will try to outlast them and suck a little more out of the NHL, at the drop dead date the PA will sign. IMHO.
Actually, Hainsey made $5 million/season over the last 3 years. He was signed to a 5-year $22 million deal. He was due to make $3 million this year.

[mod]

Anyway, everyone should boo that sack of garbage if he should ever step on the ice at MTSC again.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 12-08-2012 at 04:50 PM. Reason: libel/unsourced Twitter rumour
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Old
12-07-2012, 04:11 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
He will never again get 4 million per season, but there is almost no way I can see him not being in the NHL...he is a solid #4 D, hell I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he is re-signed by Winnipeg this off-season, we don't have much ready in the system on the blueline (specifically LHD), unless the Jets are willing to go with Kulda and convince him to come back to North America next year. Either way, Hainsey will continue in the NHL.
+1*10^9999

I say this all the time... I'd love to upgrade Hainsey... really. If we upgrade him (even the slightest), we have a Stanley Cup possible top4 right there... But, who with?
No one in the system. Kulda's ceiling I think would be slightly more defensive competent but less offensive (1. sorry Holden, but you know I like Kulda too; 2. don't laugh people, Hainsey's O would have been decent for his role if he had few less posts). Redmond has been playing a bit of the offhand side but just like Kulda, many scouts are skeptical on Redmond or Postma being solid #4's.
If we go UFA (with current cap) it wouldn't be that much cheaper than what we're currently paying (looking at capgeek most 2nd liners signed in the last two seasons were between 3-4 mill).

It's weird but he's a combo of all 3 things:
1) the thought that: effective but not gritty < gritty but ineffective... I don't get this... sure I rather have both gritty and effective (hello Bogo!!) but can't always get your cake and eat it too...
2) (Barely) less value than what his contract is. He's (by ~1.00-0.75ish mil) over what the cap-hit of his role/services would entail... some how that makes him worse than a league minimum, barely NHL capable guy...
3) He has a ****ty role right now being a PA guy. As Holden said, what you expect? Him to go on stage and "Fehr is an idiot and Bettman's right" Ya all three of those guys have been doorknobs and done some really stupid stuff, but they have a tough job and they don't half *** it (from their perspective).

Bottom line Hainsey is a decent #4 and an epic #5... should be making between 3-4 depending on teams needs/role/depth but he isn't getting Gomez money or anything of the sort... and currently we do need him, unless we get a puckmoney-Wellwoodian deal (Tanev?!? Jackman?!?), we are going to have to pay similar as we are now to upgrade him.

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12-07-2012, 04:35 PM
  #571
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Chances are, something is going to get done in time for a 48 game season. The problem is that that's likely going to involve the owners making more of a move in the PA's direction and I don't think they should. I think the deal they've offered is a good one and it bugs me that fehr is probably going to end up with some sort of victory here. Frankly theres a part of me that really would enjoy it if Bettman and the owners came out on Monday and said "as of now, the season is cancelled." Just end it and take that out of the PA's pocket all-together...

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12-07-2012, 07:52 PM
  #572
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I'm probably in the minority here, but once this lockout is resolved I can't see myself having any grudges left over. I realize there have been NHLPA hardliners who have lacked tact in their media dealings or have said some pretty regrettable things (Bolland, Barch, White, Versteeg...okay, there's plenty), but I don't really hold it against them.

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12-07-2012, 07:57 PM
  #573
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Makes 2 of us.

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Old
12-07-2012, 08:48 PM
  #574
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What I find entertaining about the lockout is fans across the league actually realize how much overpaid players like Hainsey make (see TSN story comments http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411173).

Hope he likes his union job as Fehr's lacky after this season, because it sure won't pay 4.5 M.

Some good news, think of 2013-14: no Antro and no Hainsey on Jets salary!

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12-07-2012, 09:12 PM
  #575
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What I find entertaining about the lockout is fans across the league actually realize how much overpaid players like Hainsey make (see TSN story comments http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411173).

Hope he likes his union job as Fehr's lacky after this season, because it sure won't pay 4.5 M.

Some good news, think of 2013-14: no Antro and no Hainsey on Jets salary!
I have no problems with Antropov being a Jet. I actually like him on the 3rd or 4th line. I have a problem with his contract being that much.

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