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No More Lockout Blues! - 2012 Lockout Part 2 [UPD: AGREEMENT REACHED!]

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12-11-2012, 12:59 PM
  #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSalamon View Post
Agreed... that way it counts to one of my years of STH requirements... when my years are up, I'm releasing my ticket. Likely to one of the guys who sit next to me at the games. lol
I kind of want it to not happen, so they don't get to raise the season ticket prices by 3% next year. Of course the cynic in me says whether they have the season or not they'll raise the price by the 3% anyway, completely offsetting the money left with TNSE anyway. If they care about the fans they'll not bump the price by the 3% but it is business, not charity so I see it happening.

Curious what happens to the multi-year commitments if there's no season this year? Does this year count against your 3-4-5 commitment or not? Again, do you take a strictly business approach and lock people in for year's of actual play, or is it the time frame that matters? I haven't looked at my contract to see how specifically that is laid out.

Really, as far as the season goes if they play I hope it's Conference only and it happens this year. I know we belong in the "West" but I really like seeing the teams out of the East. I did like the way the scheduling was heading with the realignment so we at least got home and home series' with the likes of the Habs/Rangers/Bruins etc. but I'm also ok with getting those guys twice more at MTS for this year if the season can be saved. I was fine with the realignment as proposed because I liked the notion of being in the same division as the Wings and Hawks too. I see that as the compensation for not getting the eastern teams quite as much.

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12-11-2012, 01:29 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by buggs View Post
I kind of want it to not happen, so they don't get to raise the season ticket prices by 3% next year. Of course the cynic in me says whether they have the season or not they'll raise the price by the 3% anyway, completely offsetting the money left with TNSE anyway. If they care about the fans they'll not bump the price by the 3% but it is business, not charity so I see it happening.

Curious what happens to the multi-year commitments if there's no season this year? Does this year count against your 3-4-5 commitment or not? Again, do you take a strictly business approach and lock people in for year's of actual play, or is it the time frame that matters? I haven't looked at my contract to see how specifically that is laid out.

Really, as far as the season goes if they play I hope it's Conference only and it happens this year. I know we belong in the "West" but I really like seeing the teams out of the East. I did like the way the scheduling was heading with the realignment so we at least got home and home series' with the likes of the Habs/Rangers/Bruins etc. but I'm also ok with getting those guys twice more at MTS for this year if the season can be saved. I was fine with the realignment as proposed because I liked the notion of being in the same division as the Wings and Hawks too. I see that as the compensation for not getting the eastern teams quite as much.
There's a FAQ at the Jets site: http://jets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=83105

Quote:
If the season gets cancelled what happens to the term on my Ticket Purchase Agreement?

As outlined in paragraph 1 of your Ticket Purchase Agreement, the term of your 3, 4 or 5-year Ticket Purchase Agreement shall be adjusted by one year should the entire 2012-2013 season be cancelled.
And about the 3% increase in ticket prices:

Quote:
If there is a lengthy delay to the start of the season and/or the 2012-13 season is cancelled, will you be increasing ticket prices more than a maximum of 3% for the 2013-14 season?

The Ticket Purchase Agreement remains in effect for the term of your specific agreement. If the entire 2012-2013 season is cancelled, there will be no increase to ticket prices for the 2013-2014 season.

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12-11-2012, 02:00 PM
  #653
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Well another round of talks start tomorrow, we'll see what the PA has come up with as I have to think they initiated these talks.
Ughh....they're calling in the mediators again....

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12-11-2012, 03:04 PM
  #654
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Listening to Dennis Hull from the Freep news cafe, just called the players dumb for their part in the lockout, he said "when have the players ever had a reduction in pay" no kidding.

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12-11-2012, 03:06 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
Ughh....they're calling in the mediators again....
Fehr's whole tactic is stretching this lockout as far as he can to the point of having the NHL not cancel the season.

So, by that assumption, I would say we will get a season - a 48 game season that is - starting in January much like the 1994-95 lockout.

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12-11-2012, 04:31 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by New Jets View Post
Fehr's whole tactic is stretching this lockout as far as he can to the point of having the NHL not cancel the season.

So, by that assumption, I would say we will get a season - a 48 game season that is - starting in January much like the 1994-95 lockout.
Yeah, like I said earlier, I hate it but I figure that's the plan. He's going to drag it out to the last possible second at which point he's banking on the owners caving and giving them a slightly sweeter deal (not exactly what they want but more than whats been offered so far) which the PA will sign and we'll get a 48 game season and Fehr will look brilliant - which will suck becuase I think he's way more of a p+:"k than Bettman and I'm going to hate watching him glad-handing the players with a big smug s*&t-eating grin on his face. I almost wish the owners would give him the finger at the last second and laugh in his face while they cancel the rest of the season. I think the PA would implode if they did that...

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12-11-2012, 04:38 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
There's a FAQ at the Jets site: http://jets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=83105



And about the 3% increase in ticket prices:
Well that was easy. Thanks.

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12-11-2012, 04:41 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Listening to Dennis Hull from the Freep news cafe, just called the players dumb for their part in the lockout, he said "when have the players ever had a reduction in pay" no kidding.
Well, briefly, after the last lockout if you go by salary averages. I mean average salary went from 1.7m to 1.4m. But within like 2 years it was back up to 1.8m or something. 06-07 was a really lean year. Kraft dinner and no drinking.

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12-11-2012, 07:03 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
I was listening to the NHL Channel on Sirius XM this morning.

The commentator made a very good point.

He feels that the deal is done.

However, Donald Fehr continues to stall and taunt the NHL, the sponsers and the fans in hopes of damaging the product.

He is doing this in preparation for the next lockout.

Basically, Fehr wants to do enough damage so that the NHL will choose not to lockout the players when the next CBA is negotiated.

He said that is why there is labour peace in baseball, the owners are afraid of the players union.
If that is true that has to be singly the most idiotic thing that has come out of this lockout (and there has been lots to choose from).

Lets say they do damage the NHL product in terms of a 10% drop to HRR over the 10 years of the deal. Extrapolate that. 3B/year in HRR = 10% is 300MM X 10 / 2 = 1.5 BILLION dollars Fehr will take out of players pockets in order to POTENTIALLY get a better deal next time. This is not taking into account what the players have already lost in this lockout!!!

"Hey guys, let's sacrifice REAL dollars now to get our hands on some potential dollars later!!!"

If they players knew of this tactic and went with it they deserve what they get. The most moronic thing I have heard yet.

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12-11-2012, 07:19 PM
  #660
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Interesting theory on why Fehr may be doing this - basically saying that he wants to get rid of the trigger happy "lock 'em out" mentality on the owners side. Given that the players have to give up some freedom in each of these negotiations, I'm assuming that the want here is to ensure there's great thought given to a locking out the players, as they WON'T give in in future, and the owners can be assured that there will damage done to the NHL rep.

I could see it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I could see this as being the end game from Fehr and the player's standpoint.

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12-11-2012, 07:32 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Interesting theory on why Fehr may be doing this - basically saying that he wants to get rid of the trigger happy "lock 'em out" mentality on the owners side. Given that the players have to give up some freedom in each of these negotiations, I'm assuming that the want here is to ensure there's great thought given to a locking out the players, as they WON'T give in in future, and the owners can be assured that there will damage done to the NHL rep.

I could see it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I could see this as being the end game from Fehr and the player's standpoint.
This could be the case but really, the ends do not justify the means.

It's not like the owners are asking for the players to take 33% of HRR or give back guaranteed contracts. Grow the game, the HRR and players profit. Owners also profit which means more money, healthy league, more marketing, more teams and MORE JOBS and $$$ for the players.

It really isn't rocket science. The players are so paranoid about getting screwed they've totally forgotten that when the owners do well, they do well.

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12-11-2012, 07:36 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
If that is true that has to be singly the most idiotic thing that has come out of this lockout (and there has been lots to choose from).

Lets say they do damage the NHL product in terms of a 10% drop to HRR over the 10 years of the deal. Extrapolate that. 3B/year in HRR = 10% is 300MM X 10 / 2 = 1.5 BILLION dollars Fehr will take out of players pockets in order to POTENTIALLY get a better deal next time. This is not taking into account what the players have already lost in this lockout!!!

"Hey guys, let's sacrifice REAL dollars now to get our hands on some potential dollars later!!!"

If they players knew of this tactic and went with it they deserve what they get. The most moronic thing I have heard yet.
Agreed. Except after 10 years it wouldn't be "our" for most players, it would be "for the next generation" of players. I've tried really hard to avoid the players are not too bright bandwagon, and that is why they blindly follow Fehr despite their own individual best interests. But if this was the case maybe it is true.

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12-11-2012, 07:36 PM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
If that is true that has to be singly the most idiotic thing that has come out of this lockout (and there has been lots to choose from).

Lets say they do damage the NHL product in terms of a 10% drop to HRR over the 10 years of the deal. Extrapolate that. 3B/year in HRR = 10% is 300MM X 10 / 2 = 1.5 BILLION dollars Fehr will take out of players pockets in order to POTENTIALLY get a better deal next time. This is not taking into account what the players have already lost in this lockout!!!

"Hey guys, let's sacrifice REAL dollars now to get our hands on some potential dollars later!!!"

If they players knew of this tactic and went with it they deserve what they get. The most moronic thing I have heard yet.
Your logic is a bit flawed there Jet. Your method is implying that the HRR is going to stay at 3B for the next ten years, and that the Hockey market wont recover, when it surely will. I'm sure in the first year back it will take a hit, for sure it will...and it may even take a year or two to actually come back to the way it did before.

Don Fehr probably cost the players, at most 600m. At the absolute most and its probably closer to 300-450m tbh using nice whole numbers, and not accounting for the fact that the HRR will fluctuate and will probably be lower to begin with and then go higher.

Either way, i think its outlandishly stupid. 450m is still a lot of money.

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12-11-2012, 07:38 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Your logic is a bit flawed there Jet. Your method is implying that the HRR is going to stay at 3B for the next ten years, and that the Hockey market wont recover, when it surely will. I'm sure in the first year back it will take a hit, for sure it will...and it may even take a year or two to actually come back to the way it did before.

Don Fehr probably cost the players, at most 600m. At the absolute most and its probably closer to 300-450m tbh using nice whole numbers, and not accounting for the fact that the HRR will fluctuate and will probably be lower to begin with and then go higher.

Either way, i think its outlandishly stupid. 450m is still a lot of money.
I totally agree that my numbers are very hastily thrown together and probably not very accurate. I was just pissed off and trying to make a point

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12-11-2012, 07:57 PM
  #665
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I totally agree that my numbers are very hastily thrown together and probably not very accurate. I was just pissed off and trying to make a point
Agreed.

I totally get being pissed of at the whole lot of them. It just doesn't seem like they are that far apart, and it drives me crazy to think that we're going to lose an entire season because the players failed to take their heads out of Fehr's ass. I agree with fighting last time. Absolutely. It was a drastic change, and it was going to alter the game as we knew it...and it did. It created contendors and champions out of alot of terms that never stood a chance before(pittsburgh, chicago) as well as smacked a few back down to earth(toronto) and also changd the way alot of people thought when making a hockey team(vancouver).

So while i agree whole heartedly with a salary cap, i understand why they fought and why we lost the season.

This time? You lost me guys. There was no good reason for this to go down this way. At all. To me it looked like the players were more interested in lining their own pockets instead of the future of the game. At least this time they find a system that actually works well enough that this BS doesn't have to happen again.

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12-11-2012, 10:05 PM
  #666
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Agreed. Except after 10 years it wouldn't be "our" for most players, it would be "for the next generation" of players. I've tried really hard to avoid the players are not too bright bandwagon, and that is why they blindly follow Fehr despite their own individual best interests. But if this was the case maybe it is true.
Unless of course Fehr hasn't shared this tactic with most of the players and they are going along with it for other the reasons that he is feeding them.

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12-11-2012, 10:22 PM
  #667
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Fehr will burn the world to win.

I can see him dragging this into next season. By then the owners will probably be offering the players more then what they already get in the last CBA.

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12-12-2012, 12:25 AM
  #668
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Here's an interesting question. Let's say the NHL and PA finally sign a deal, completed for a shortened season this year. We all know re-alignment has to be a part of it (Jets will not stay in SE longterm, it just makes no sense). Since they are going to have to redraw the entire schedule anyways, will the Jets get moved instantly this year? Or have to wait until next season?

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12-12-2012, 01:05 AM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Here's an interesting question. Let's say the NHL and PA finally sign a deal, completed for a shortened season this year. We all know re-alignment has to be a part of it (Jets will not stay in SE longterm, it just makes no sense). Since they are going to have to redraw the entire schedule anyways, will the Jets get moved instantly this year? Or have to wait until next season?
I think they probably wait until next season to get that done.

It may not even be a part of it, or it's simplified. The problems that the NHLPA had with it are still there I don't think they've even spoken about it. With the amount of fighting they've done, it's probably one of the last things on their mind.

Unless it was used as a bargaining chip.

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12-12-2012, 01:21 AM
  #670
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I think it was obviously a bargaining chip, and I'm willing to bet its been played.
We've heard before that there has been significant progress made on a number of fronts. I recall reports saying that all secondary aspects had basically been settled (obviously always subject to change) but the major issues were preventing a deal (HRR, contracting issues, make whole).
I think that they play this year, assuming there is one, with us in the south east and switch to the realigned divisons with some fanfare next year.

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12-12-2012, 01:28 AM
  #671
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I think it was obviously a bargaining chip, and I'm willing to bet its been played.
We've heard before that there has been significant progress made on a number of fronts. I recall reports saying that all secondary aspects had basically been settled (obviously always subject to change) but the major issues were preventing a deal (HRR, contracting issues, make whole).
I think that they play this year, assuming there is one, with us in the south east and switch to the realigned divisons with some fanfare next year.
Yea, that makes sense. either way, it doesn't start until next season...although im ok with staying in the SE. The division is TERRIBLE...in comparison to the others. although i think a Canadian division has its merits.

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12-12-2012, 01:33 AM
  #672
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Yea, that makes sense. either way, it doesn't start until next season...although im ok with staying in the SE. The division is TERRIBLE...in comparison to the others. although i think a Canadian division has its merits.
Urgh, I really hope WPG doesn't land in a Canadian division. We should be in a division with Minnesota, Chicago and St. Louis, IMO. Works better for timezones and overall league positions, and I just think WPG fits better with those teams.

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12-12-2012, 01:42 AM
  #673
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Honestly I'm opposed to the proposed format simply because 2 conferences/divisions provide an easier way to the playoffs than the other 2.
I don't want to be stuck in an 8 team conference where we have to beat out 4 teams, while other teams only have to beat out 3. Just look at the kings last year (obviously not an 8 seed talent wise though) making the playoffs is huge. Anything can happen once you're in.
Obviously that's the direction the league wants, so I'll have to suck it up. It'd be an easier pill to swallow if at least we reaped the rewards of the unfair system!

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12-12-2012, 06:29 AM
  #674
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Unless of course Fehr hasn't shared this tactic with most of the players and they are going along with it for other the reasons that he is feeding them.
I believe what you say is at least partially true videosfarmer

I keep hearing the players say Fehr represents them not the other way around and yet the current strategy makes no sense finacially. The only way both aspects of this can coexist is if Fehr represents a vocal strong minority of hawkish players, perhaps including the group that got the previous head of the PA ousted IMHO.

I still believe this deal would be home and cool now for the players and they would all make more in the next 5 years if they had kept Kelly in place but that is water under the bridge and money doesn't seem to be the priority for the people in control on the PA side?

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12-12-2012, 08:04 AM
  #675
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So, what's everyone thinking? Do we see the two sides come to an agreement in the next week or so which would allow for a January 1st start-up? Or do they play this right to the end of the road in mid-January (to go with a minimum 48 game schedule) and negotiate with the season dangling on a string?

The optimist in me says we get it done for January 1st, but the realist in me says these two sides will play the game of chicken right until the 11th hour.

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